Why are bottoms against fucking vers dudes?

find83

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Do we have to 'you don't Nomi Malone'? I'm not judging you man. I don't claim to know you. What I asked of you was to recognize that there is an experience here that you cannot lay claim to that is in and of itself unique valuable and not replaceable by other means. I don't discount that you are probably very good and that you do satisfy your partners. I can look at what you say you do as a top and think 'thats great'. I can also look at the experience of penetration by habitual tops and say 'thats also great '. One is not better than the other. One does not preclude the other. I guess I was hoping you would simply acknowledge that beyond the generalization Kosmic made there is a truth. FWIW I have been with many guys who penetrate exclusively who were amazing BUT they also in many cases ended up on my penis. The reason? Anyone who is having that much fun might be on to something. It's both flattering and stressful because I am not all that great at fucking. What I am good at is eating a hole until it is wet, loose, open and relaxed so my first stroke in is one direct plunge with no pain or discomfort. That's usually received with surprise and excitement. I don't know that I would know how to do this had I not subbed extensively.

The last line isn't for you. It's a dig back at Kosmic throwing what he said to you back in his court . :)
ok no harm no foul heheh. Ok my intention was not to lay claim to that feeling bottoms get being penetrated or to diminish it, however Kosmo comment is one I have heard many times from bottoms as if it is a golden truth and the only way to be a "good top" which he does have a point and that is why I said it is not the only way to being a good top. Actually I'm very much an oral top topping is not only about using your dick and thrusting (well to me at lest). My point I was trying to make is sex is highly subjective art and depending on peoples likes and aptitude. What may work for u does not work for me and as you said it doesn't make it bad
 
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ok no harm no foul heheh. Ok my intention was not to lay claim to that feeling bottoms get being penetrated or to diminish it, however Kosmo comment is one I have heard many times from bottoms as if it is a golden truth and the only way to be a "good top" which he does have a point and that is why I said it is not the only way to being a good top. Actually I'm very much an oral top topping is not only about using your dick and thrusting (well to me at lest). My point I was trying to make is sex is highly subjective art and depending on peoples likes and aptitude. What may work for u does not work for me and as you said it doesn't make it bad

I hold to the principle that dominance is about assuming a role more than saying which acts are allowed and which are not. The dom is the dom by virtue of the acceptance of authority and submission of the sub. The idea that a sub and especially one who claims absolute bottom status proscribes ANY rules elements or acts as acceptable or not once play begins formally is absurd. That's usurping the dom's authority and is punishable. If the rules of BDSM are set aside it's not the man who has begged for a cock who tells the man with the erection what where or how to do with it. The non verbal cues will be read by the dom and translated into action. The safe word exists to exit the lesson.

Internalized shame and homophobia scar the bossy bottom (or the callous top). The desire for authority and the ability to show him youre not really a cock hungry slut with penis psychosis haze who will let a man do filthy things. I accepted long ago that my love of penis would control me and make me vulnerable to other men. I embrace the fact that I am all the horrible things homophobes say I am. I just disagree that any of it is horrible.

We do not fully accept that men need other men's anuses and that men also crave being fucked by other men and that it's beautiful we do and that both men make a whole together. When he cannot deep dick you with enough passion and depth and you cannot do more than moan your adoration of the safety of his penetration nor you the hole as home, that connection is made something higher.

But a top also sucks dick eats ass and drinks piss especially from his sub as that's gay sex. He may also get fucked or fisted. No one is required to do any of this. But the idea that your desire as a bottom for sanctified streamlined pure singularity of anal sex immobilized in time and space is the best way to be a good lay is absurd. No sub was ever taken out by fear of a fey planet because daddy sucks cock. No, people are dropping out and giving up waaayy too easily.

It takes years to be good at either role. Both take serious work. Both have serious rewards. But leave as many rules as you can by the wayside as you start out. Explore. Make mistakes. Don't be siloed by the porn or consumerism. Serving your man no matter what the term is or isn't is an amazing privilege. dedicating yourself to his guidance and pleasures is a lifelong project. Putting him first as he does you.
 

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You're cool, @find83 . I do know that some guys are great lovers without having to train at the "Fuck Academy" For me, I had to study up on everything because, in all honesty, low self-esteem made me think that I couldn't do a damn thing right in the sex department. Silly, ain't it?!

Good Lord the sexiest men always with the highest self doubt. Its normal. Homophobia on one side and sexual objectification on the other. And we don't know anything to start but we do know how to seek pleasure. In the end sex is not porn and its ok to mess up. Both roles. Gentle support and a willingness to go back and try again as well as the agreement that a top just needs to be accepted as such and his bottom the same. The pressure to perform comes from both sides and it turns sex into a competition. It's exactly the opposite. Both of you are stunning men inside and out. You measure up to yourselves perfectly and that is how a man should grade himself... authenticity and integrity to his own nature. A truly caring bottom learns to give as much of what you need speaking of it not but also inspires in you perspectives and desires that are new. He never says fuck me. He shows you his need and waits for your approval. If it never comes he retires. It will come. He is ready to take on what support is required, make you feel virile and centered and follow your lessons on the ways to pleasure
 
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Kosmic

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So what is a total top in your definition?
A total top, by my definition, is one who exclusively tops.

Now, I'm gonna preface the following by saying that I have not fucked every top out there so I have no place to say that guys who have never bottomed are better/worse in bed than other guys who have/do. If you felt that way then it's not my problem, especially since I never said such a thing in the first place.

What I AM saying is that I find vers tops more attractive than guys who exclusively top... and I find THEM more attractive than guys who have never topped at all. If you're offended then sorry... not sorry. It's personal preference. Every guy isn't my type and, likewise, I'm not everyone's type. That's just the way it is.

... and yes, this still fits the discussion at hand.
 

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Double post, my bad.

Total top =/= Strict top (One who has never bottomed and refuses to)

Again, by my definition.
 

find83

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A total top, by my definition, is one who exclusively tops.

Now, I'm gonna preface the following by saying that I have not fucked every top out there so I have no place to say that guys who have never bottomed are better/worse in bed than other guys who have/do. If you felt that way then it's not my problem, especially since I never said such a thing in the first place.

What I AM saying is that I find vers tops more attractive than guys who exclusively top... and I find THEM more attractive than guys who have never topped at all. If you're offended then sorry... not sorry. It's personal preference. Every guy isn't my type and, likewise, I'm not everyone's type. That's just the way it is.

... and yes, this still fits the discussion at hand.
Dude I simply asked for clarification and a discussion ensued, no ones attacking you I get personal preference. I prefer total bottoms so you can drop the attitude.
 
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Onlyonly

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Hey y’all!
I think we’re getting lost again.
The original question was meant to be hookup only. I didn’t make that very clear, but anyway. The discussion expanded to include relationships.
If it’s hookups I think the consensus is that is much easier and less hectic. I think it’s when we start dating/relationships that the whole “tops only” or “bottoms only” thing comes to mind.
It also seems like there are some bottoms claiming to be vers. But I still don’t fully get that. I found that, if I bottom once, I’m considered a bottom, the vers is our the window. So are those vers guys just vers? Or are they really bottoms? Prob a mix of both.

This topic reminds me a lot about my own bisexuality. Im not straight enough (top) for girls but I’m not gay enough (bottom) for guys. Everyone wants to tell vers they’re really bottoms just like everyone wants to tell bi guys they’re really gay...

I’m projecting a lot on this one lol so don’t take offense. Just trying to steer the conversation back to what we were talking about.
 

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Hookups? Oh...

I still like vers guys but being duped by someone pretending to be okay with topping only to attempt the "bait-and-switch" technique gets infuriating. I have to explicitly state what I am looking for and have kicked guys out when they test me.

@find83: It wasn't an attitude, I'm just a blunt individual but I do see how it can be perceived as an attack or me being defensive.. For that, I apologize.
 

find83

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Hookups? Oh...

I still like vers guys but being duped by someone pretending to be okay with topping only to attempt the "bait-and-switch" technique gets infuriating. I have to explicitly state what I am looking for and have kicked guys out when they test me.

@find83: It wasn't an attitude, I'm just a blunt individual but I do see how it can be perceived as an attack or me being defensive.. For that, I apologize.
ok we cool
But honestly hooking up they all lie hehe sucks more for you but on my side hate the bottoms that say they can handle it and then you stick in your head and they start crying ot tap out. In my city theirs a large bottom population so the stories or vers or top guys flipping is numerous. I've even fucked some total top guys. lol
 
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Onlyonly

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ok we cool
But honestly hooking up they all lie hehe sucks more for you but on my side hate the bottoms that say they can handle it and then you stick in your head and they start crying ot tap out. In my city theirs a large bottom population so the stories or vers or top guys flipping is numerous. I've even fucked some total top guys. lol
I guess I’m very picky and don’t go on Grindr as much as some of y’all cuz I don’t really get into these situations. They must be annoying though.
I tend to be very “transactional” when I’m talking to someone about hooking up. I explicitly tell them I’m a top (or if I’m looking to bottom, I specify that)
I’ve experience bottoms telling me they can handle it only to tell me to cum within 10 minutes and that pisses me off. But I just don’t fuck them again and move on to the next one.
 
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find83

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Hey y’all!
I think we’re getting lost again.
The original question was meant to be hookup only. I didn’t make that very clear, but anyway. The discussion expanded to include relationships.
If it’s hookups I think the consensus is that is much easier and less hectic. I think it’s when we start dating/relationships that the whole “tops only” or “bottoms only” thing comes to mind.
It also seems like there are some bottoms claiming to be vers. But I still don’t fully get that. I found that, if I bottom once, I’m considered a bottom, the vers is our the window. So are those vers guys just vers? Or are they really bottoms? Prob a mix of both.

This topic reminds me a lot about my own bisexuality. Im not straight enough (top) for girls but I’m not gay enough (bottom) for guys. Everyone wants to tell vers they’re really bottoms just like everyone wants to tell bi guys they’re really gay...

I’m projecting a lot on this one lol so don’t take offense. Just trying to steer the conversation back to what we were talking about.
I think it's a numbers game as well pure top guys and only bottom guys have a limited selection pool, while if you say your vers you technically can fuck anyone so your pool of potential candidates is wider, so in their head they think they can fake it until the actual reality of the matter hits them in the moment and they revert to their default setting. It's like lying on a job application, you put on paper everything the particual post wanted just to get a foot in the door even if you have no actual qualifications
 
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find83

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I guess I’m very picky and don’t go on Grindr as much as some of y’all cuz I don’t really get into these situations. They must be annoying though.
I tend to be very “transactional” when I’m talking to someone about hooking up. I explicitly tell them I’m a top (or if I’m looking to bottom, I specify that)
I’ve experience bottoms telling me they can handle it only to tell me to cum within 10 minutes and that pisses me off. But I just don’t fuck them again and move on to the next one.
well I pretty much stop hooking up and now only fuck buddies or date in an exclusive relationship if its a girl. This was all in the past when I use to be on hookup apps.
 

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I think it's a numbers game as well pure top guys and only bottom guys have a limited selection pool, while if you say your vers you technically can fuck anyone so your pool of potential candidates is wider, so in their head they think they can fake it until the actual reality of the matter hits them in the moment and they revert to their default setting. It's like lying on a job application, you put on paper everything the particual post wanted just to get a foot in the door even if you have no actual qualifications
That’s a very interesting angle to put it on.

I think the first step is admitting there are people who like to bottom and top. I’m sensing a lot of you guys here have the motion that vers are just closeted bottoms... we have to stop dismissing people’s likes just because we can’t comprehend someone would like to do both things.

Your response gave me a lot of “he’s really just gay not bi feels. He’ll figure himself out one day” as if I’m just confused or pretending.

Side note: If we were all honest with each other from the get go it would be so much easier but Daly there are so many of us still fearing the label “bottom” or have it known. The internalized homophobia there is very palpable.
 
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find83

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That’s a very interesting angle to put it on.

I think the first step is admitting there are people who like to bottom and top. I’m sensing a lot of you guys here have the motion that vers are just closeted bottoms... we have to stop dismissing people’s likes just because we can’t comprehend someone would like to do both things.

Your response gave me a lot of “he’s really just gay not bi feels. He’ll figure himself out one day” as if I’m just confused or pretending.

Side note: If we were all honest with each other from the get go it would be so much easier but Daly there are so many of us still fearing the label “bottom” or have it known. The internalized homophobia there is very palpable.
Man I'm bi myself so not sure were you got that I'm impression from saying he's confused and I do believe that guys can be vers but sadly some people lie. If your meeting up with someone and you guys agreed on one thing and you changing it the moment we meet what do you want me to think. I'm not talking about guys that bottom on occasion I'm talking about people that project one image online and do something completely different when they meet. In the gay community ( had numerous conversations with my gay friends on this) there's a great deal of bottom shaming, people treat or think guys that bottom or who bottom only are not men, which is extremely false so some men say they are vers not because they like flipping but because they don't view themselves as effeminate. Btw to be clear if nothing wrong with being "effeminate" it's just how some people are. As I said numerous times previously a lot of these problems stem from bad self perception and people being dishonest with themselves and their likes. You can be anything you like it's not up to me or anyone else to tell you just be honest with yourself because at the end of the day it's your life.
 
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Man I'm bi myself so not sure were you got that I'm impression from saying he's confused and I do believe that guys can be vers but sadly some people lie. If your meeting up with someone and you guys agreed on one thing and you changing it the moment we meet what do you want me to think. I'm not talking about guys that bottom on occasion I'm talking about people that project one image online and do something completely different when they meet. In the gay community ( had numerous conversations with my gay friends on this) there's a great deal of bottom shaming, people treat or think guys that bottom or who bottom only are not men, which is extremely false so some men say they are vers not because they like flipping but because they don't view themselves as effeminate. Btw to be clear if nothing wrong with being "effeminate" it's just how some people are. As I said numerous times previously a lot of these problems stem from bad self perception and people being dishonest with themselves and their likes. You can be anything you like it's not up to me or anyone else to tell you just be honest with yourself because at the end of the day it's your life.
This is what confused me from your message
“so in their head they think they can fake it until the actual reality of the matter hits them in the moment and they revert to their default setting”
Can you clarify?
 

find83

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I was referring to guys that either claimed they are total tops and not looking to bottom but when you meet they are face down ass up and taking a 10inch dick or the guys agree to top you but for whatever reason then flip on their back and now want to bottom. I was not referring to guys that bottom in general whether you are vers or total bottom. that's why I started off my comment with people lie on hookup sites it wasn't a general stamen about guys bottoming. We already established there are real vers guys out their