Why are people so angry about circumcision

[darkbond007]

Good detective work darkbond. Sorry if some of my source material views male genital cutting as mutilation or if I have on occasion used the M word. There is a bill being tried with Massachusetts lawmakers called the MGMbill.org if you want to see what they are all about. So yeah, I have used the term before, but as I explained I usually use disfigured because I think it is more accurate and less incendiary. Amputated. Can't do much for you there, except exhume Webster.

Why are you so angry? You said long ago that RIC is uncommon where you live. So what is your purpose? Do you defend RIC?

Disfigured may be even more incendiary than mutilation. At least I can get some humor out of mutilation and I don't agree with amputation either because it doesnt fit...I dont dream about my foreskin, I dont identify with it. Amputees do with amputated limbs.

Your apology is just but I dont see why you just cant refer to it as a circumcision. Why does it have to be renamed and why in the renaming must you associate it with a negative connotation?

Angry? I am not. I am consistently bewildered at why there is such hate towards circumcision on the whole. I don't buy the whole RIC angle, it attaches an emotional string with it being a baby, Ive seen your gang also attack grown adult men in the same way around getting a circumcision.

My purpose is to inform individuals that a circumcision is not the end of the world and that as an adult it is a viable solution to problems with a foreskin. I do not believe it is the primary solution however I believe it to be a viable secondary solution once stretching and steroids have been ruled out. In the end I am a big advocate for a grown man making the choice to be circumcised.

I have no belief system either way on RIC. I really dont care if people circumcise their kids or not. I dont defend RIC and I dont abhor it. I will circumcise my boy(s) though. It is a decision myself and my girlfriend (soon to be fiance) have made together. It is a legal decision where I live even though the cut rate is only about 15%.

See the thing is...and I've said this in another thread. I located my medical records after I was circumcised. This had all my checkups up until I was 16 years old (last time I went to a doctor for a check up actually). In every single one....over 25 checkups, the doctor had on my genitalia chart foreskin = phimosis. I had tears and infections and every time my mother would ask to have me circumcised that doctor would say I did not need it. The notes are right here in my room in her British handwriting (yes she was from the UK). I like you dont trust doctors but I have a different experience. Countless times my mother asked and countless times she was not advocated. See to me parents are only trying to do what they believe is best for their child. I trust the parent before anyone else because there is no agenda with the parent. Knowing all of the above...I would have preferred to be RIC, however hindsight is 20/20 as they say.

With all that said, I dont have any ill will towards you or anyone else that does not agree with me. I would just like for you guys to actually look at things in the perspective of many men out there can be suffering and not knowing and not wanting to discuss their member. Sure you can point to stretching and steroids...you dont even need to mention circumcision. But if someone does and they do in the context that it is a secondary solution you should respect it as a solution.

 

[darkbond007]

Circumcision Statistics

I did find this page interesting though. It appears wherever there is no medicaid funding for circumcision the rate is low. This is commensurate with EVERY place in the world. If you can get a circumcision cheap or for free it appears that there can be an inclination to do it.

Also that study on the drop in circumcision just makes less and less sense with every subsequent read, especially looking at the percentages on that map that was updated with 2008 data.

Also it clearly looks like states with high immigrant diversity also have lower rates.

 

[FuzzyKen]

This is a hot topic because it crosses so many boundaries.

You have a practice which can under some circumstances be viewed by many as a violation of the rights of the child.

You have a practice with regards to esthetics that is subject to the viewpoint of the viewer.

You have a practice that is practiced for medical reasons probably less than 2% of the time.

You have a practice that dates back to times when medical knowledge also included incantations, potions, blood letting, etc..

You also have a great number of times that male children are circumcised based on the various flawed or obsolete viewpoints of the MD's delivering the children without parental consent.

This has the potential to be emotionally charged simply because a high percentage of us do in some ways feel as if we were "violated" by this act.

In the 1950's, some Insurance Companies who financially participated in childbirth also paid for this procedure and as a result it was an "included extra". This procedure is no longer covered by any medical insurance provider without proven medical need.

I can think of circumstances where this procedure is needed and I have zero objections to it and in fact endorse it under specific circumstances.

My problem with it personally is that the procedure is abused by individuals with profit motives these days.

If a person wants to be circumcised I emphatically support their decision because they are making that decision for themselves. I do not support anyone making that decision for another individual because of false or flawed reasoning. I also do not support and emphatically endorse censure or licensing penalties against MD's who practice this without complete disclosure and what in law is referred to as "informed consent".

 

[Infernal]

I have no anger over being circumcised as an infant. What's the point ? My parents made the decision based on what they knew at the time. In my 20's my mother said that as she matured, and received an education, she wished she hadn't done it. It isn't like they had my foot cut off or something.

 

[sexyirishboy]

Coz it's sick to do it to a baby it's ok for a adult to do it to him r her self I under stand if that person is haven problems also if u think about it to a baby boy then is it ok to do it to a baby girl if u don't know what I'm talkn about look it up one part they do to a female is remove her clit

 

[B_dxjnorto]

In the end I am a big advocate for a grown man making the choice to be circumcised. <snip> I will circumcise my boy(s) though.

Darkbond, your post highlights why I usually completely ignore what you say. Your intertwined contradictions show you not to be a rational person.

Prediagnosing your boys with phimosis is as irrational as prediagnosing your boys with AIDS. Both are rare - 1 or 2% of the male population with phimosis after adolescence - and we know stretching and steroid cremes are usually effective for this minority. AIDS, lifestyle risk. And neither have anything to do with infants. To highlight your errors I will prediagnose that you are going to be a poor father. Starting out this way. 15%? For your boys to be singled out? Won't fly in the information age. What else can I say to you? It won't matter because you don't try to make sense. You and Vinylboy got a logic circuit loose or crossed. Back on ignore.

Your posts will probably still be archived fifteen years from now when your boys give you what for?

 

[darkbond007]

Darkbond, your post highlights why I usually completely ignore what you say. Your intertwined contradictions show you not to be a rational person.

Prediagnosing your boys with phimosis is as irrational as prediagnosing your boys with AIDS. Both are rare - 1 or 2% of the male population with phimosis after adolescence - and we know stretching and steroid cremes are usually effective for this minority. AIDS, lifestyle risk. And neither have anything to do with infants. To highlight your errors I will prediagnose that you are going to be a poor father. Starting out this way. 15%? For your boys to be singled out? Won't fly in the information age. What else can I say to you? It won't matter because you don't try to make sense. You and Vinylboy got a logic circuit loose or crossed. Back on ignore.

Your posts will probably still be archived fifteen years from now when your boys give you what for?

I am not contradicting anything. It is just my preference to circumcise my son(s) and it something you cant bring yourself to deal with.

Did I say I was cutting my son due to AIDS or phimosis. No, I never gave you any reason because I dont owe you any reason...this is what me and my girlfriend have decided on. I even got her opinion on it without ANY input from me.

But here we see the exact thing that bothers people about you. You are trying to tell me what to do with my son. You are saying I will be a poor father for circumcising my son...but Im sure if I leave my son intact and beat him once a week I would be fine.

Your inert problem is you cant understand why someone would circumcise their son...and you demean them for it. Again I could care less what other people do with their kids in regards to circumcision. But with mine, we have made our decision...do you even have kids of your own? If me circumcising my son makes me a supporter of your global outlook on RIC then so be it.

I wont even mention how you took my entire post out of context like you normally do...

But now I gotta ask...Why so angry about me wanting to circumcise my own sons? Are you mad at my girlfriend to that she wants to do it? Does it bother you that much that you would put me on ignore? Why does it bother you? If you met a guy you liked and he liked being circumcised would you think less of him? Would you not want to be around him? Would you allow your beliefs to with hold you from loving someone? Am I not entitled to loving my penis the way it is now?

 

[cyberczar]

If Mother Nature didn't want man to not have a foreskin, she would have designed our penises to be without them.

Rarely is man smarter than Mother Nature.

 

[mandoman]

Disfigured may be even more incendiary than mutilation. At least I can get some humor out of mutilation and I don't agree with amputation either because it doesnt fit...I dont dream about my foreskin, I dont identify with it. Amputees do with amputated limbs.

Your apology is just but I dont see why you just cant refer to it as a circumcision. Why does it have to be renamed and why in the renaming must you associate it with a negative connotation?

Angry? I am not. I am consistently bewildered at why there is such hate towards circumcision on the whole. I don't buy the whole RIC angle, it attaches an emotional string with it being a baby, Ive seen your gang also attack grown adult men in the same way around getting a circumcision.

My purpose is to inform individuals that a circumcision is not the end of the world and that as an adult it is a viable solution to problems with a foreskin. I do not believe it is the primary solution however I believe it to be a viable secondary solution once stretching and steroids have been ruled out. In the end I am a big advocate for a grown man making the choice to be circumcised.

I have no belief system either way on RIC. I really dont care if people circumcise their kids or not. I dont defend RIC and I dont abhor it. I will circumcise my boy(s) though. It is a decision myself and my girlfriend (soon to be fiance) have made together. It is a legal decision where I live even though the cut rate is only about 15%.

See the thing is...and I've said this in another thread. I located my medical records after I was circumcised. This had all my checkups up until I was 16 years old (last time I went to a doctor for a check up actually). In every single one....over 25 checkups, the doctor had on my genitalia chart foreskin = phimosis. I had tears and infections and every time my mother would ask to have me circumcised that doctor would say I did not need it. The notes are right here in my room in her British handwriting (yes she was from the UK). I like you dont trust doctors but I have a different experience. Countless times my mother asked and countless times she was not advocated. See to me parents are only trying to do what they believe is best for their child. I trust the parent before anyone else because there is no agenda with the parent. Knowing all of the above...I would have preferred to be RIC, however hindsight is 20/20 as they say.

With all that said, I dont have any ill will towards you or anyone else that does not agree with me. I would just like for you guys to actually look at things in the perspective of many men out there can be suffering and not knowing and not wanting to discuss their member. Sure you can point to stretching and steroids...you dont even need to mention circumcision. But if someone does and they do in the context that it is a secondary solution you should respect it as a solution.

Sadly, your phimosis was caused by a chronic yeast infection.
I don't understand why the medical community failed to detect this, but it's obvious.
The constant tearing is the primary symptom. The smegma overproduction can be another. When the tears heal, they heal with scar tissue, which is tougher, but less elastic, making the foreskin tighter. They should have dealt with the underlying infection, which is as simple as using canesten. If for some reason that didn't work, dietary changes such as less soda can work. If that didin't work, they certainly should have circumcised you earlier, before causing you so much pain.

 

[sxjTheFirst]

Because you know there are no better things in the world to get angry about.

 

[B_dxjnorto]

Sadly, your phimosis was caused by a chronic yeast infection.

Probably brought on by and exacerbated by overprescription of systemic antibiotics. Treat things locally whenever you can.

 

[darkbond007]

Probably brought on by and exacerbated by overprescription of systemic antibiotics. Treat things locally whenever you can.

Nah I didn't take antibiotics as a child. I had a UTI when I was like 3 or 4. Thing lasted like 2 weeks or so. Terrible and I still remember it.

 

[Sapien]

...this is what me and my girlfriend have decided on. I even got her opinion on it without ANY input from me.

DB - I know that we tend to butt heads in these discussions. This is aside from all that. The intention is not to get into a nasty debate but just to provide some insight from a different perspective.

Female partners are quite likely to provide an opinion on this topic based on the circumcision status of their partner. It is not necessarily an informed opinion. The opinion is biased because the female partner may feel that choosing the opposite circumcision status of their partner would offend their partner. Thus, there is a tendency to avoid this confrontation. (Kind of like females avoiding discussions/comparison on sexual performance of previous partners - they are quite aware of the fragile male ego when it comes to penises and sexual performance).

Is your girlfriend fully informed on this topic? Have you said anything to ensure that her stated opinion is not biased by your experience and current circumcision status?

 

[scottredleter]

why are people so angry about circumcision and I mean from both sides? Theres nothing wrong with being circumcised and it even makes some men feel better and then on the other side theres nothing wrong about not being circumcised and some men feel that's the best way to be same as with shaving pubes and piercings. Why does everybody get so angry and mean about it all?

You are so right. Usually when I comment on this topic it feels like nobody can hear the point I'm trying to make. As long as circumcision is left up to the person being circumcised, I have no problem with it at all. it's when a piece of a baby is cut off against his will that it makes me mad.

 

[B_dxjnorto]

I hear you loud and clear Scott. Thanks for making your point.

 

[darkbond007]

DB - I know that we tend to butt heads in these discussions. This is aside from all that. The intention is not to get into a nasty debate but just to provide some insight from a different perspective.

Female partners are quite likely to provide an opinion on this topic based on the circumcision status of their partner. It is not necessarily an informed opinion. The opinion is biased because the female partner may feel that choosing the opposite circumcision status of their partner would offend their partner. Thus, there is a tendency to avoid this confrontation. (Kind of like females avoiding discussions/comparison on sexual performance of previous partners - they are quite aware of the fragile male ego when it comes to penises and sexual performance).

Is your girlfriend fully informed on this topic? Have you said anything to ensure that her stated opinion is not biased by your experience and current circumcision status?

She is fully informed. We are still debating as to when to do it. I think we both don't want to do it right after birth. We are discussing between age 2 and 10. If you ask us both right now it would be at age 5. We both want his input and we want to have an open discussion about it. I plan to be open about things with my son(s)

 

[herkimer snow]

What if he says he doesn't want it at all? Will his input count?

 

[eurotop40]

... We are still debating as to when to do it. I think we both don't want to do it right after birth. We are discussing between age 2 and 10. If you ask us both right now it would be at age 5. We both want his input and we want to have an open discussion about it. I plan to be open about things with my son(s)

That sounds reasonable.

 

[curioustitan]

If Mother Nature didn't want man to not have a foreskin, she would have designed our penises to be without them.

Rarely is man smarter than Mother Nature.

Um...er...czar... You crack me up....Double negative.... By your quote, we should not have foreskins...... Truly, mother nature is smarter than man...LOL!!
I'm just saying...
Also wanted to say, that it's so good to be back within this ongoing thread... dx.. i really admire your wherewhithal and tenacity despite your methodology in arguing anti circ...If i had to base my decision making in this regard on your 'doggedness' and sheer determination then i too would be opposed to circumcision. However, it's your disregard for the very people who have been circumcised. (who according to you are victims of an ill fated choice whether their own or someone else's) You don't treat them as victims, but rather as social pariahs and "mutilated" outcasts.
Simply put, it's your painfully obvious lack of empathy and your outright scorn and contempt for circ 'victims' that will continuously drive a wedge between your desire for circ abolition and your actual 'achieving' of it.

"i still love sam_solo26"

 

[deleted15807]

dx.. i really admire your wherewhithal and tenacity despite your methodology in arguing anti circ...If i had to base my decision making in this regard on your 'doggedness' and sheer determination then i too would be opposed to circumcision. However, it's your disregard for the very people who have been circumcised. (who according to you are victims of an ill fated choice whether their own or someone else's) You don't treat them as victims, but rather as social pariahs and "mutilated" outcasts.
Simply put, it's your painfully obvious lack of empathy and your outright scorn and contempt for circ 'victims' that will continuously drive a wedge between your desire for circ abolition and your actual 'achieving' of it.

Exactly....BUT if you were circ'd and hate yourself and the doctors and your parents and restored you foreskin as dxj has THEN come the flowers and choclates. Otherwise you're dimissed.