Why are people so angry about circumcision

[D_Mephistophiles Scatlicker]

Just my opinion, but some may get defensive because they were cut as a child and didn't have a choice. They really don't know what it's like to have skin and never will, so they strike out at those who say it's better to be uncut. Human nature I guess. I only get upset when I hear that doctors do it automatically without asking or they talk the parents into having their son mutilated.

 

[mandoman]

Its lumped right in with politics, religion etc.
There will be no end to the argument. This is what happens when you dont have factual evidence that will holistically remove emotion and human bias.

There is factual evidence. It's just not in the US. It's been studied to death, in Canada, Britain, Scandinavia, Australia, New Zealand, etc. All those various countries agree.
There will never be an objective study in the US. There are many reasons for this. As you have noted, there is a whole history of bias, going back many decades. It's a revenue stream that many find addictive. It bucks our culture in the US, in many ways. Some entrenched beliefs, even when exposed as propaganda, don't go away. Then, there is the other side, which riles you, and which you constantly expose. The people who want it to go away, no matter what, or how good the reason.

All in all, it is the most polarizing subject...up there with religion, warfare, abortion, taxes, and all the many touchy subjects that cause fractures in our societies. I try to stay out of the thick of it. I had the absolute most hateful diatribes aimed at me, and I am not talking about in here, when the subject came up politically in my home state. Fantastic conjectures which had no tangents to the real world. Misinformation flew like I had not previously thought possible.

 

[tgirlsrgreat]

that i have to say, i have never heard. not say it does not happen, but it was certainly discussed with us, in detail and yes we made the decision for our infant son. sorry if that offends some, but to think of a doctor doing it without parental permission is not good.

 

[DaveyR]

Just my opinion, but some may get defensive because they were cut as a child and didn't have a choice. They really don't know what it's like to have skin and never will, so they strike out at those who say it's better to be uncut. Human nature I guess. I only get upset when I hear that doctors do it automatically without asking or they talk the parents into having their son mutilated.

People can be pretty emotive and react strongly to hearing themselves described as mutilated.

 

[B_VinylBoy]

People can be pretty emotive and react strongly to hearing themselves described as mutilated.

Nailed it right on the head.
It's a symbol representing some of the most vehement hatred harbored on this board as demonstrated by the close to 90 different threads about the subject. The sad thing is, certain people who are against circumcision don't care and it happens every single time when these threads emerge. I tend to think they're irrational.

Circumcised men are not deformed, scarred, damaged, mutilated or any other rhetorically spun word to suggest that a person is abnormal or unnatural.

 

[D_Mephistophiles Scatlicker]

You are so right and I apologize if I offended anyone. There has to be a better word. Maybe we could get some suggestions from other members of this group? Unfortunately, when it comes to what happens in the operating room, I don't have a good substitute word to make people feel better. Mutilate, maim, mangle, amputate? Somehow these words don't sound better or make it right. Call it what you will, it's a plain fact that we as parents, don't have the right to make this choice for our boys. It has to stop and if I can stop one parent from making this bad decision, I will feel proud.

P.S. For the record, I like cock no matter what size, shape, with or without extra skin. I'm just glad my parents let me make the choice about mine.

People can be pretty emotive and react strongly to hearing themselves described as mutilated.

 

[B_VinylBoy]

You can just call it what it is... circumcision.
You don't have to call it amputation or any other word that heightens and agitates fear. You choose to do it and you know exactly why you do it so let's not pretend.

 

[DaveyR]

You are so right and I apologize if I offended anyone. There has to be a better word. Maybe we could get some suggestions from other members of this group? Unfortunately, when it comes to what happens in the operating room, I don't have a good substitute word to make people feel better. Mutilate, maim, mangle, amputate? Somehow these words don't sound better or make it right. Call it what you will, it's a plain fact that we as parents, don't have the right to make this choice for our boys. It has to stop and if I can stop one parent from making this bad decision, I will feel proud.

P.S. For the record, I like cock no matter what size, shape, with or without extra skin. I'm just glad my parents let me make the choice about mine.

Whilst I completely agree with your point of view on RIC I would have phrased it very differently. I would say that I completely disagree with RIC and feel that it should be left until a point where the child/young man is able to make an informed decision for himself. Whilst a lot might disagree with me no-one could possibly be offended by that view.

You see what you did was to use attacking, belittling, offensive words that would immediately invoke anger, counter attacks and defensiveness. The debate is then a complete none starter as the subject becomes lost in a heap of emotion where neither side has any respect for the other.

 

[B_stanmarsh14]

Whilst I completely agree with your point of view on RIC I would have phrased it very differently. I would say that I completely disagree with RIC and feel that it should be left until a point where the child/young man is able to make an informed decision for himself. Whilst a lot might disagree with me no-one could possibly be offended by that view.

You see what you did was to use attacking, belittling, offensive words that would immediately invoke anger, counter attacks and defensiveness. The debate is then a complete none starter as the subject becomes lost in a heap of emotion where neither side has any respect for the other.

And there lies the problem, in the use of attacking, belittling, and offensive words, to which everything snowballs from, no matter which side of the fence you sit upon.

 

[D_Mephistophiles Scatlicker]

Here in the U.S. we call it "getting your point across". If it offends, at least they know how you feel. That's what "forums" are for, right?

Circumcision amputates half of a man's capacity for pleasure. Remember that when the doctor comes with his little form for authorization.

And there lies the problem, in the use of attacking, belittling, and offensive words, to which everything snowballs from, no matter which side of the fence you sit upon.

 

[B_VinylBoy]

*SIGH* Here we go again...

 

[D_Tim McGnaw]

I agree that people seem to react badly to the term "mutilation" but from a purely technical point of view (and therefore a view which is non-judgemental) circumcision is a form of genital mutilation, much like piercings are or tatoos. Now that doesn't mean that whenever anyone uses the term mutilation they are using it in this neutral technical sense, and indeed some will be using it to mean something more perjorative but that doesn't mean that technical terms suddenly becomes out of bounds because some people use them perjoratively or because some people always interpret it as being perjorative.

The problem is tone. Tone is very difficult to communicate in print, and in many discussions of this subject people seem to use and react to terms and terminology without considering tone. Circumcision is an issue many men feel strongly about or are sensitive about and therefore a little careful attention to the kind of tone certain terms may convey in print which the writer may not have intended is essential.

What also seems to plague these discussions are the settling of personal hash. Two or more members take these discussions, turn them in to bitter arguments and then seem to take very great pleasure in viciously attacking one another for page after brain jellifying page. This in my opinion is because some guys (and it is mostly men) have a really hard time walking away from a fight and derive pleasure from trying to out-arshole the guys they're fighting with. These are the people who make these discussions so difficult.

 

[DaveyR]

Here in the U.S. we call it "getting your point across". If it offends, at least they know how you feel. That's what "forums" are for, right?

If you can't get a point across without offending then you are pretty damned stupid. Sorry if that offends you. Actually no I'm not I'm just getting my point across.

 

[Bbucko]

I rarely join in any of these circ debates because they become so heated so quickly. Whenever people feel really passionate about something (and I've never met a man who wasn't passionate about his penis), reason usually flies out the window.

For the record, I was born in a military hospital and was cut without consent or permission almost immediately after I was born. I've never discussed it with my father (who was born at home and never cut), and the few times I attempted to discuss it with my mother when I was an adolescent went nowhere, as she would gladly have consented had she been asked and honestly never understood what the big deal was.

I have often compared circumcision to having someone's ear lobes removed: one less thing to clean, and it would discourage men from getting earrings, which are of course only meant for women etc.

The reality is that I'm perfectly happy with my penis just the way it is, though in my heart of hearts I wish I'd been left uncut. I prefer uncut cocks in my sex partners almost to the point of exclusion: it's a rare exception for me to even consider having sex with a guy who's cut, which is one reason why I favor Latinos so much.

Of course, circumcision is just one of my many criteria and preferences and ultimately any potential beau is assessed on an individual basis, not on any one feature, good or bad.

 

[D_Mephistophiles Scatlicker]

I'm not offended. We Americans are used to the Brits thinking we're damn stupid. After all, we voted for Obama. You think he's uncut?

If you can't get a point across without offending then you are pretty damned stupid. Sorry if that offends you. Actually no I'm not I'm just getting my point across.

 

[D_Tim McGnaw]

I'm not offended. We Americans are used to the Brits thinking we're damn stupid. After all, we voted for Obama. You think he's uncut?

OK can we please not have this thread devolve in to exactly the kind of thing it's OP is clearly disturbed by? Flinging in controversial national stereotypes, Obama references and references to Obama's circ status (which btw you couldn't possibly know) are not conducive to the civility of this discussion are they? And in fact have little or nothing to do with the OP. Since this thread does not in fact require you to offend people in the effort to show how passionately you feel about it's subject matter that would be entirely out of line. No?

 

[Daisy]

He didnt ask if circumcision was good or bad, he asked why people get so heated about it. It's not just men. Moms who advocate for babies get upset too.

 

[jacenx]

Why a civilization is wasting a lot time of room surgery in hospitals an clinics to futile things such as circumcision. There are people that needs doctors for more urgent and better reasons. I don't like the stupidity of the human nature that doesn't work hard to build a civilization that make life easier for everyone.

For me, a doctor should do his job because he loves his job. Doctor that works only for large amount of money are worst people. Maybe I live in Canada which is a country with equitable access to health care but It's the foundation of our country. It's crowned in our culture.

 

[D_Tim McGnaw]

Why a civilization is wasting a lot time of room surgery in hospitals an clinics to futile things such as circumcision. There are people that needs doctors for more urgent and better reasons. I don't like the stupidity of the human nature that doesn't work hard to build a civilization that make life easier for everyone.

For me, a doctor should do his job because he loves his job. Doctor that works only for large amount of money are worst people. Maybe I live in Canada which is a country with equitable access to health care but It's the foundation of our country. It's crowned in our culture.

Please read the OP and the Seaside's comment above, this thread isn't about whether or not circumcision is a good thing or a bad thing. It's about why some people find it difficult to discuss it without becoming angry or uncivil.

 

[cyberczar]

For me it's all about mutilation (and I'm uncircumcised):

I'm not Jewish or Christian, so take this with a grain of salt, but I assume most circumcisions either come from Jews for religious reasons, and from Christians for societal reasons:

If God wanted Man to not have a foreskin, He would have made Man to be without one.

Plenty of male mammals don't have foreskins. Of course, some do…

It just so happens that Man is the only one that chooses to mutilate his or his prodigy's body.

Rarely is Man smarter than Mother Nature.