Why are people so angry about circumcision

[mandoman]

Looks like someone understands.
The context of the message from some anti-circumcisionists is where the hostility and hatred is contained. When they repeatedly refer to the removal of foreskin through nothing but synonymous words that can be twisted to portray the illusion of abnormality, their intentions to smear and attack are exposed. Really, how difficult is it to refer to the medical procedure by its actual name? That is, of course, if having an honest discussion was their goal?


Those words mean what they mean. I did not invent the words.
The words describe an action which was taken by someone else, towards you. I have no hatred or malice towards you, or towards any circumcised man, which includes one of my sons, and much if not most of my family.
Those words have a precise meaning. That meaning conveys what physically happened.


Doesn't matter. It works fine, my sex is great and I laugh at anyone who thinks my equipment is somehow flawed because my parents were doing something that they honestly thought would be in my best interest. If my parents didn't love me, they wouldn't of had me. I would have been aborted or given up for adoption with no chance of tracing them in the future. Also, there's no way I can miss something I never had. Many other things define me as a male before I get to my penis... which BTW I receive absolutely no complaints on but I digress.

Congrats. I am truly glad that your sex and equipment is fine.
It would be a tragedy any other way.
I'm sure your parents love you.
I love the son I had circumcised.

I equate the continued attacks on circumcised people and their supposed loss of sensation, inability to have sex "properly" and all that other madness to a middle school level, childish berating of boys in a locker room taking a group shower. People who tend to be insecure about their own penis and its functions will most likely make fun of other people's "junk". That's why I find some of the zealous comments made by people vehemently against circumcision to be laughable.


I have no problem with you being circumcised, or anyone else, for that matter. I am not attacking you. The horrible thing, is that words that accurately describe what happened in the course of circumcision, keep ringing in your head, and becoming larger than life. A wound appears. It is horrible for me to picture, and must be horrible for you to bear.
This is a case of "I hate the act, I love the people".
I love you. You are human, and I love and respect that. I find you to be honest. I love my circumcised son. The reason a knife was taken to him, was that my wife and I were lied to, and fell for it. Part of my problem with circumcision comes from the medical propaganda which is issued to justify its continued use. It confuses the issue, and makes the money machine go around.

I don't see it that way at all.
I was circumcised. I wasn't mutilated because I didn't lose the mass majority of my length or penis size (implicating an radical altercation as listed by your definition). Amputation has been spun so many times to have a negative slant on this discussion that I scoff at people who refer to it. But regardless of what we choose to call the procedure, context is the most important thing here. Hatred seeps out in the most diplomatic and prettiest of statements.

You didn't lose the mass majority of your length, or size.
What you lost, was input sensors to your brain.
Since nature abhors a vacuum, those brain cells which would have received the transmissions from what was taken, were rewired, to receive transmissions from some other parts.
You don't like the word amputation. I agree, it is rough stuff. The connotation is worse than the action. But, something happened. Calling it a circumcision is like a euphemism, which people use to justify it.
This is why I so strongly object to the action. No one should have a healthy body part taken from them, especially in a pleasure center.
My objective is not to be diplomatic, or make a pretty statement.
My objective is similar to yours, to tell the truth.
I bear you no malice. I respect you. As time passes, I am seeing you and I are more and more alike.
Circumcision is a practice whose time has come to stop.
This is no reflection on you, and it's not about you.
I am very glad that you are happy with your circumcision. In my world, no one should be put in a position to make that choice. Like you, I am not for the use of force. I don't want government interference. I also don't want government complicity, like paying for it. I just hope that people will come to see that it is not needed for health.
Thanks for listening, VinylBoy.

 

[Peter Wood]

In my country (the Netherlands) no parent is asked after a son is born if he needs to be circumcised. Of course circumcisions are done but only for religious reasons or when there is a serious medical problem. No parent ever decides to have a son circumcised because the father is or because of other – not medical or religious – reasons.
It’s my opinion that a parent should have respect for the right of the baby boy to decide at an adult age about cutting away his foreskin. Some people in this thread seem to forget that men are born with a foreskin. It is part of his genitals. It has to protect his penis head.
Men with foreskin intact are not better than men who had a circumcision. And men with a cut foreskin are not better than men who still have their foreskin.
It is all about having the right to decide about your own penis and others to respect that right.
I am aware that some religions don’t have respect for that right. But I am also aware that in a modern nation like the United States of America these rights of baby boys are ignored. No one should blame or even hate his parents for deciding to cut his foreskin. You should blame the society that allows parents to have their sons circumcised and doctors to have a non-medical or non-religious role in this.
My father was not circumcised, I am not cut and my brother was not cut. My son is not circumcised and my brothers sons are not circumcised. When I was a schoolboy most of the other boys were uncut. Some had a circumcision and we all knew why. Now with more Muslim men in our country you can see more circumcised cocks in locker rooms, showers and public toilets. Circumcised men are not rare, but cicumcision is never done because parents want it right after the birth of a boy for none religious or none medical reasons.

English is not my native language so sorry if I used wrong words.

 

[laser90]

When my son was born I ask the doc one question. Is there any compelling medical reason to circumcise my son? His reply was NO.

I did not buy into the fact that just because I was cut my son should be too..

the doc told us that he did not care to circumcise babies.

I like the saying .... If it's not broke don't fix it! LOL.

 

[Viking_UK]

There are a few reasons why the circumcision debates become heated, including:
1. Its a very emotive subject, charged with issues about the right to decide what happens to one's own body, sensation, pleasure and satisfaction balanced against a parent's duty to do what they think is best for their child or in, some cases, their right to do as they see fit with their child.
2. The language people use when discussing circumcision tends to be inflamatory.
3. Some of the people involved in the discussion like to stir the shit.
4. There's a lot of ignorance on both sides of the debate.
5. There's precious little respect on either side.
6. Even the people who are pretty moderate allow themselves to be baited and get drawn into the arguments.

Personally, I think the decision whether or not to circumcise should be left up to the person whose body it is, be they male or female, when they are old enough or competent to make such a decision for themselves unless there is a pressing medical reason.

If someone was circumcised as a child, that doesn't mean they can't have a healthy and satisfying sex life. There's no reason to pity or belittle them. At the end of the day, it doesn't make much difference to their quality of life. They're only "victims" if that's their own perception, and I can understand guys getting worked up when people call them scarred and mutilated or whatever. Yes, some people do feel as if they've been mutilated, and I do feel sympathy for them, but, to be honest, they've got two choices, either stay a victim or say, "This has happened to me. It's not what I wanted, but I'm not going to let it ruin the rest of my life."

I've never understood most of the arguments trotted out in favour of infant circumcision. The "so he can look like his dad" argument is a prime example. Can you imagine the reaction if someone took their week old baby in to get a PA so he could look like his dad? It's not really that different from having the baby cut - in fact there's less risk of infection and plenty of people have had their kids' ears pierced at that age, but try it and I could almost guarantee that the cops would be called.

As for being made fun of in the locker room, I only ever heard one kid being teased due to his circumcision status, and that's because he was the only one who was cut.

I'm not going to bother with health and hygiene issues becasue they've been done to death in other threads.

 

[Dave NoCal]

One post only on this thread.
It seems to me that the people who get most angry are those who are unable to step away from their own frame of reference. Thus there are several conversations going on simultaneously. For example, some advocate the PRINCIPLE of individual personal choice (my position). Others advocate for the PRINCIPLE of the rights of parents to make decisions for children (which I agree with when a choice in NECESSARY and the child inable to make a IMMINENTLY NECESSARY CHOICE). In my view a necessary appendectomy cannot be delayed until a child can decide. A circumsision can almost always be delayed until there is a need or a want on the part of the individual. It is also my opinion that parenting is most effective when children are allowed to make as many decisions as is reasonable for themselves.

Others respond in highly perosnal ways ("You are accusing me of hating my parents." Or, "You said my dick is mutilated." Or, "You said my dick is dirty.") People on both sides of the discussion have been rational and people on both sides of the discussion have be rude and insulting. There is general tendency to not hear what the other is actually saying and to focus on what the other can be CONSTRUED to be saying. The whole thing is quite tiresome.

However, I support the tiresome discussion continuing because, like the discussion of marriage equality, the more discussion there is, the more the fence sitters examine the issues on rational basis. And the more that rational bases are examined, the more the population moves toward marriage equality and away from RIC. Thank you dikkiedik, laser90, Viking UK, and others for your rational contributions.

Done.

Dave

 

[oacliffbuddy]

GAWD! They ought to ban the word "circumcision" from this site. It's been one day and already 63 postings.

I believe it's called "penis envy"

Your dick is what it is. If you got skin, you got skin. If you don't got skin, you don't got skin. Try as you might, you can't change it....(well, those that got it can).

Some guys that don't have it are jealous of those that do. Some guys that have it are glad they have it because the guys that don't have it and want it make them feel good because they've got something the other guy wants and can't have.

Sooooo...the bitter debate continues between the haves and the have nots.

Then there's the rest of us; the well adjusted. Happy and satisfied with what we have and could care less as to what the other guy's got.

 

[deleted15807]

GAWD! They ought to ban the word "circumcision" from this site. It's been one day and already 63 postings.

=====


Then there's the rest of us; the well adjusted. Happy and satisfied with what we have and could care less as to what the other guy's got.

That is the best way to look at it. At the end of the day I'd rather die happy than grinding an ax 24/7 on LPSG.

 

[D_Abraham Slinkin]

Some people on this forum need to understand that Circumcision isn't the norm. Other than for Religious people in Israel & Muslim countries, America is the only country to practice circumcision.
Imagine I told you that people in Papua New Guinea remove the 4th toe at birth. You would all be disgusted, you'd call it primitive and wrong. You'd call it GBH and Mutilation.
Circumcision is the same thing, you just don't see it as that because for you it's a cultural norm. But step away from that. Imagine how it looks to us here in Europe. Cutting off part of a baby. Removing a part of a body against someone's will. That child has no choice in the matter.
Some people present arguments such as 'It is more hygienic'. This is flawed. Yes, it's more hygienic to not have a foreskin than to have one and not wash it. It's like saying it's more hygienic to NOT have hair because if you don't wash it it COULD become infected with lice. Yet you don't see people SHAVING their head for hygiene reasons. It's not hard - wash your dick. Everyone here in Europe doesn't have infected penises because they're uncut.

And pleasure. It's impossible to do a real study, but as an uncut guy, when my foreskin gets caught back in the day and the head is exposed it feels so uncomfortable. After not wanking for a while it feels much more pleasurable, the head is much more sensitive because protected by a foreskin it has remained un touched. Without a foreskin, your penis head is ALWAYS being touched. The same way that the balls of your feet go hard and are less sensitive because of having lots of ground contact - your penis head must become less pleasureable.

If you practice Female Circumcision you can be prosecuted for GBH. It should be no different for Male Circumcision. The thought that my Parents might have chopped part of my body off at birth without me being able to voice my objection is the stuff of nightmares.

 

[mandoman]

In my country (the Netherlands) no parent is asked after a son is born if he needs to be circumcised. Of course circumcisions are done but only for religious reasons or when there is a serious medical problem. No parent ever decides to have a son circumcised because the father is or because of other – not medical or religious – reasons.
It’s my opinion that a parent should have respect for the right of the baby boy to decide at an adult age about cutting away his foreskin. Some people in this thread seem to forget that men are born with a foreskin. It is part of his genitals. It has to protect his penis head.
Men with foreskin intact are not better than men who had a circumcision. And men with a cut foreskin are not better than men who still have their foreskin.
It is all about having the right to decide about your own penis and others to respect that right.
I am aware that some religions don’t have respect for that right. But I am also aware that in a modern nation like the United States of America these rights of baby boys are ignored. No one should blame or even hate his parents for deciding to cut his foreskin. You should blame the society that allows parents to have their sons circumcised and doctors to have a non-medical or non-religious role in this.
My father was not circumcised, I am not cut and my brother was not cut. My son is not circumcised and my brothers sons are not circumcised. When I was a schoolboy most of the other boys were uncut. Some had a circumcision and we all knew why. Now with more Muslim men in our country you can see more circumcised cocks in locker rooms, showers and public toilets. Circumcised men are not rare, but cicumcision is never done because parents want it right after the birth of a boy for none religious or none medical reasons.

English is not my native language so sorry if I used wrong words.

No worries. You write in English as if it was your first language, or perhaps better than most for whom it is their first language.

 

[D_Mephistophiles Scatlicker]

Some fine, well-spoken people here are for and against male circumcision. We have all spoken our piece quite well (for the most part). I think that's what forums are for. Those who are against it simply don't think that anyone should be making these kinds of irreversible decisions for another person. Those who are for it, have a right to their opinion as well. All opinions are deep-seated and paint clear images of everyone's personal circumstances in our minds. It surely makes for a difficult subject matter. I can think of no other subject, other than abortion, that would cause more debate and hateful comments. I'm for letting it drop. Nothing will be gained if we continue.

​

 

[tgirlsrgreat]

well said and agreed.

 

[B_dxjnorto]

I'm for letting it drop. Nothing will be gained if we continue.

That's not true classidad. Things have changed and are changing. Like Dave NoCal says, mostly from discussions like this -- almost entirely. There's been no policy change by the perpetrators or government, except many states have disincluded RIC from their medicaid.

 

[Sapien]

I'll tell you why. Because it involves a parent or two parents making a life changing decision FOR their child. People who feel that it is cruel and unnecessary feel terrible for the baby boys who have part of their natural anatomy surgically removed. The procedure could potentially harm him or even kill him in rare cases but altered for life nevertheless.

I say that if I'm wrong the worst thing that can happen is he turns 18 and gets himself circumcised, but if the "cutters" are wrong the boy grows into a man and spends his life hating his parents for cutting up his penis. Why take that chance? Why not just let him decide?

Thats why people get so heated about it. It's about advocating for children who can't speak for themselves.

Well put. Most of us forgive our parents because we understand the lack of information on the function of the foreskin that was available and the propaganda that the medical profession provided.

However, now that the information is available those being cut now will be less inclined to forgive so easy. Also, with the declining numbers of circumcision, there will be more exposure to those intact. Eventually the circumcised children will be in the minority and this will make the issue much more traumatic for them.

Some people on this forum need to understand that Circumcision isn't the norm.

Imagine I told you that people in Papua New Guinea remove the 4th toe at birth. You would all be disgusted, you'd call it primitive and wrong. You'd call it GBH and Mutilation.
Circumcision is the same thing, you just don't see it as that because for you it's a cultural norm. But step away from that. Imagine how it looks to us here in Europe. Cutting off part of a baby. Removing a part of a body against someone's will. That child has no choice in the matter.

Exactly. I saw a interview with a nurse from Africa that witnessed Female Circumcision. When she came over here she couldn't believe that we cut the genitals of male infants. She thought our society was more advanced.

And pleasure. It's impossible to do a real study, but as an uncut guy, when my foreskin gets caught back in the day and the head is exposed it feels so uncomfortable. Without a foreskin, your penis head is ALWAYS being touched. ... your penis head must become less pleasureable.

It does become desensitized but that is not the only issue. The foreskin itself is erogenous and part of the sexual response mechanism. The interaction of the foreskin with the glans may be more significant than the desensitization aspect.

The thought that my Parents might have chopped part of my body off at birth without me being able to voice my objection is the stuff of nightmares.

It is nightmarish isn't it. Fortunately, for the most part we adapt and push that aspect out of our minds. Unfortunately, this defense mechanism is also partly responsible for the perpetuation of this practice. It is easier to justify that circumcision is a good thing, be glad it was done to us and then do it to our children to reinforce the justification. It is a very vicious cycle.

 

[B_dxjnorto]

It is nightmarish isn't it. Fortunately, for the most part we adapt and push that aspect out of our minds. Unfortunately, this defense mechanism is also partly responsible for the perpetuation of this practice. It is easier to justify that circumcision is a good thing, be glad it was done to us and then do it to our children to reinforce the justification. It is a very vicious cycle.

Yes. People validating circumcision on the bodies of their offspring.

"I'm a good person. I wouldn't do anything to hurt a child. Therefore, circumcision is good."

Epic Fail.

 

[darkbond007]

There is factual evidence. It's just not in the US. It's been studied to death, in Canada, Britain, Scandinavia, Australia, New Zealand, etc. All those various countries agree.
There will never be an objective study in the US. There are many reasons for this. As you have noted, there is a whole history of bias, going back many decades. It's a revenue stream that many find addictive. It bucks our culture in the US, in many ways. Some entrenched beliefs, even when exposed as propaganda, don't go away. Then, there is the other side, which riles you, and which you constantly expose. The people who want it to go away, no matter what, or how good the reason.

All in all, it is the most polarizing subject...up there with religion, warfare, abortion, taxes, and all the many touchy subjects that cause fractures in our societies. I try to stay out of the thick of it. I had the absolute most hateful diatribes aimed at me, and I am not talking about in here, when the subject came up politically in my home state. Fantastic conjectures which had no tangents to the real world. Misinformation flew like I had not previously thought possible.

Please provide factual evidence. I am not from the US so that angle is irrelevant to me. I think the propaganda resides on both sides of the coin here.

You are right. It is as polarizing as the other subject matter in small pockets. I think in the grand scheme of things those subjects have more weight and WAY more participants. The majority of men rarely talk about their penises unless its to stick it somewhere.

 

[mandoman]

Here's the view from the Netherlands:
Circumcision of boys unnecessary and risky | Radio Netherlands Worldwide

From the Royal Dutch Medical Society:
Non-therapeutic circumcision of male minors (2010)

Survey of Swedish doctors:
Many Swedish doctors oppose circumcision - UPI.com

Circumcision briefly illegal in Sweden:
Circumcision and law - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Canadian Paediatric Society's statement:
Neonatal Circumcision Revisited

Another CPS brief:
Circumcision: Information for parents

Australia and New Zealand:
CIRCUMCISION RACP SUMMARY STATEMENT

 

[CURVEDANDTHICKK]

If people would mind their own business and respect other people's opinions then this topic would die. Personally I think it is offense to tell someone they hurt their child because they had them circumcised or they are going to have their child have problems with ridicule and future medical problems if they didn't have them circumcised. Being a parent is the most difficult job on the planet and we don't need some activist using a guilt trip tactic to make people agree with their opinons. We, on a regular basis, constantly second guess ALL of our decisions so we really don't need help in that regard. What we need is for people to stop criticizing what they perceive as flaws. I have two teen boys and body image (weight, height, complexion etc) is very important and ugly comments about anything really hit home. They go on the internet and could easily see hateful things about circumcision. If your cut then you have been mutilated if your not cut then you are not clean and can carry diseases. EVERYONE PLEASE STOP THE MADNESS. I've said it in previous posts and I'll say it again. Yes my sons are circumcised, their mother and myself made that decision for them. We make a lot of decisions for them and that one, for the record, was very easy. It was harder to decide what daycare to place them in, should they go to private or public schools, what friends should we allow them to spend time with. Those decisions have an impact on their current well being and more importantly it sets the foundation for their future. To be blunt to circ or not to circ didn't make a differece then, now or in the future. As a matter of fact the youngest just realized what that is and he doesn't care. Their dicks work fine based on the amount of time they spend in the bathroom. My oldest son told me that he was very glad he was circed and would be really pissed if had to do it today as an adult (physically). He knows that it is more complicated at his age now than when he was an infant. Infants unlike teens don't get a raging hardon at least once an hour and don't have to deal with an insatiable sex drive. And guess what, if they weren't circed they would probably feel the same way because they don't know any diffrent. They would still get rock hard erections and great pleasure from their penis and in the end that is all that matters to them. And when they are happy Daddy is happy.

 

[mandoman]

Get over it.
You made the best decision you had, with the information you had. The end.
Darkbond007 asked me to cite sources. I did.
Nobody is calling you anything, except in your imagination.
If you think parenting is a hard job, which I agree is the hardest job ever, try losing one.

 

[B_dxjnorto]

It was harder to decide what daycare to place them in, should they go to private or public schools, what friends should we allow them to spend time with.

At least you are honest about how thoughtless you were.

Part of the problem. Not part of the solution.

 

[mitchymo]

I'm certainly not angry about circumcision, i just don't see the point in it outside of religious culture.
The medical advantages to it can be equated to walking around 24/7 with a gas mask on to reduce your risk of catching a cold. Pointless medical procedure.