Why are so many gay men so unhappy?

Thikn2velvet1

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I have known a lot of gay men over the years and only one would I call bright and happy but Mike died of AIDS. Every other gay man I have known has been dour at best with ranges to downright miserable.
 
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malakos

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I think part of it is that society has long viewed us as intractably reprobate. And so we wind up being left out from the communication of the given society's values. It's a part of cultural instruction that "normal" people receive, but those viewed as deviant do not receive it. Some are party to it in their childhoods, but usually it becomes compromised and polluted by some really nasty messages regarding homosexuality, and so the baby tends to be thrown out with the bathwater (it's an understandable reaction, but still, the outcome is unfortunate). So we tend to not have have the worldview foundations that the typical member of the society has. Without that foundation it becomes difficult to discern what will really make us happy. We have to struggle to figure that out with a great deal more trial and error than the average person does.

Mind you, I don't think Gay men actually are terribly unhappy and everyone else quite happy. I think the average person is discontent, it's just Gay men are a bit more so for a variety of reasons.
 
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Alfie-P92

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Can I recommend reading the book “A Velvet Rage”. It’s written by a gay pyschiatrist who has seen many gay patients over the years and discusses why he believes the gay population are less content and often end up with drug and alcohol problems, depression, promiscuity is etc.
It’s an excellent read and makes you realise things about yourself that you didn’t even realise!
 

winesthel945

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While there are some commonalities of life experiences that make some gay men tend towards certain attitudes and personality styles (as noted above), I would say that you need to broaden the range of gay men that you know and the circumstances in which you know them.

Personally there are times I have wondered "why are all gay men so bitchy," then I realized, oh... it's just the type of gay man that this particular bar attracts, or that this particular friend circle has attracted, that tend to be of a certain, from certain backgrounds, and that includes a high percentage of people all acting similarly, dressing similarly, and generally being clones. When I've worked to get to know folks completely outside those circles and have found that many of them have strongly different attitudes and perspectives, resulting in very different personalities.

In my experience, many mature gay men -- if they've been out of the closet for a very long time (and I'm talking since high school or college) -- are often more emotionally centered than some of their straight counterparts. If you've made it into your 30s or 40s without killing yourself through suicide, drugs, alcohol, etc., particularly if you came of aged in a more repressed time, you've probably gotten to a point in which you have dealt with many of the demons that haunted you in your youth. The exact opposite is often the case with gay men who have only come out recently; they're often emotionally stunted and stuck in an endless teenage angst loop that, on someone in their 30s, is not a good look at all.

I don't think gay men have the corner on depression, self-esteem issues, or other factors that make them unhappy. I also have many straight friends who are in similar situations and have very similar attitudes and behaviors, with the unhappiness that comes along. There are many circumstances that drive people to take similar behavioral approaches to coping, and they wind up being nearly identical regardless of orientation. As a result, I know plenty of straight people who are indistinguishable in behavior and personality from some gay men: bitchy, full of angst and drama, emotionally unavailable, etc. Sometimes I think it's more about living in a big city than it is about sucking cock.

Broaden your view and look beyond orientation, you may find that the common characteristics overlap in larger ways.
 

keenobserver

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I'm not sure gay man as a group are more unhappy in general than most other groups. There are times when we are unhappy about specific issues that are societal - like right wing church groups trying to convert or kill us - that puts a dent in my day. There is also an initial anxiety about social acceptance after coming out, but that, to me passed long, long ago. It is however an issue that most gay people face and it is probably different for everyone. It was not for me much of an issue, but I have seen families where is was and it lasted for years.

Day in, day out I have usually been a pretty happy fellow and don't think I was or am more unhappy than my straight peers, facing similar problems. The question itself is overly broad and generalizing.
 

Thikn2velvet1

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While there are some commonalities of life experiences that make some gay men tend towards certain attitudes and personality styles (as noted above), I would say that you need to broaden the range of gay men that you know and the circumstances in which you know them.

Personally there are times I have wondered "why are all gay men so bitchy," then I realized, oh... it's just the type of gay man that this particular bar attracts, or that this particular friend circle has attracted, that tend to be of a certain, from certain backgrounds, and that includes a high percentage of people all acting similarly, dressing similarly, and generally being clones. When I've worked to get to know folks completely outside those circles and have found that many of them have strongly different attitudes and perspectives, resulting in very different personalities.

In my experience, many mature gay men -- if they've been out of the closet for a very long time (and I'm talking since high school or college) -- are often more emotionally centered than some of their straight counterparts. If you've made it into your 30s or 40s without killing yourself through suicide, drugs, alcohol, etc., particularly if you came of aged in a more repressed time, you've probably gotten to a point in which you have dealt with many of the demons that haunted you in your youth. The exact opposite is often the case with gay men who have only come out recently; they're often emotionally stunted and stuck in an endless teenage angst loop that, on someone in their 30s, is not a good look at all.

I don't think gay men have the corner on depression, self-esteem issues, or other factors that make them unhappy. I also have many straight friends who are in similar situations and have very similar attitudes and behaviors, with the unhappiness that comes along. There are many circumstances that drive people to take similar behavioral approaches to coping, and they wind up being nearly identical regardless of orientation. As a result, I know plenty of straight people who are indistinguishable in behavior and personality from some gay men: bitchy, full of angst and drama, emotionally unavailable, etc. Sometimes I think it's more about living in a big city than it is about sucking cock.

Broaden your view and look beyond orientation, you may find that the common characteristics overlap in larger ways.

Oh I believe there is significant overlap. For example, I know very few adult women who are not on a mood elevating drug. I actually have statistical proof of that. The urban setting could be at play too. I think people who live in close quarters have much more stress.

I was( no longer though) an investor in a string of higher end hair salons. Maybe gay stylists are more prone to unhappiness? They would be so wonderful in front of their clients, high energy, upbeat, terrific sales skills, but soon as the doors closed , darkness came over them.
 
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Bunny35

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There are a few things in my life that i am not happy about, but they don't overwhelm the good things.

I have money to spare, own house and car. My career is good and i don't have any responsibilities other than my dogs (which is perfect for me) The peter pan complex is alive and well in this gay man.

So those bad things tend to get put into context and this gay man is happy
 

Brodie888

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I think most minorities who are marginalized by society have a higher rate of unhappiness. That I will agree to.

I disagree with the generalization that only a small fraction of gay men are happy though.

I think that's more of a myth that gay conversion therapists peddle.
 

Brodie888

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Oh I believe there is significant overlap. For example, I know very few adult women who are not on a mood elevating drug. I actually have statistical proof of that. The urban setting could be at play too. I think people who live in close quarters have much more stress.

I was( no longer though) an investor in a string of higher end hair salons. Maybe gay stylists are more prone to unhappiness? They would be so wonderful in front of their clients, high energy, upbeat, terrific sales skills, but soon as the doors closed , darkness came over them.

If almost all of the women you know have mood disorders then I'd say the problem in your area isn't associated with sexual orientation or gender.
 

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I've never understood this. There were friends I had in my 20's and they had other friends that we would hang out with. Some of these guys were just miserable human beings. They never complimented each other. It was one insult, or sarcastic comment after another. Nothing and no one was ever good enough. I shared a house with two people and they wanted to go out every night of the week to hang out with these people. I just couldn't do it. Once a week was all I could handle, and many times I just went to talk to more pleasant people that I knew.
 

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I have known a lot of gay men over the years and only one would I call bright and happy but Mike died of AIDS. Every other gay man I have known has been dour at best with ranges to downright miserable.

I am frankly tired of the framing here because it continues to imply that gayness and misery are an inevitable relationship and it has its origins in old Hollywood. Men are unhappy. Women are unhappy, and this is due to the way our culture has radicalized around the idea that consumption of goods is the way to be happy. You all know retail therapy is shit. It's barely a bunp in the road. Neoliberal capitalism has stripped every natural or organic space and idea of coherence and relation and replaced it with marketization and rationalization. We have bought the idea that monetizing everything and using runaway disposable tech is a good idea it is not. Tech brings work home, we work longer hours, moren jobs, less security, less health, less nutrition, lowered life expectancy etc. The only recent historically acceptable ways for men to express emotions is rage and drunken stupor. That is changing but it takes time to see the light, Gay men are men, and experience increasingly the same pressures. Neoliberalism has made gayness a worse off place. Yes, HIV AIDS, poverty, homophobia, the prude brigade, commercialization of everything, drugs booze and trauma are part of our community. They do not or should not define us. Maybe the way you meet gay men leads you to the pigeons of unhappiness, maybe they are sharing a common thread, or maybe you are misreading the degree to which Mike the one who is memory and obviously special to you is that much different than the others,which you are clearly measuring against Mike. Is it possible you loved him a little more than you thought and that the others are not measuring up because you miss him but don't really know why on some levels and reject the new ones because they are going to usurp?
 
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Nudistpig

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I've never understood this. There were friends I had in my 20's and they had other friends that we would hang out with. Some of these guys were just miserable human beings. They never complimented each other. It was one insult, or sarcastic comment after another. Nothing and no one was ever good enough. I shared a house with two people and they wanted to go out every night of the week to hang out with these people. I just couldn't do it. Once a week was all I could handle, and many times I just went to talk to more pleasant people that I knew.

Shade and bitchiness are an art and they have a time and place. You don't get to throw shade or be cunty and fierce in the palces where it is a culture and has rules and for which the various means of communication are deliberate and meaningful. The idea is not to insult or be catty. It is to be clever and make an insult that is more advice and ultimately respect because you don't throw it at a waste of time. Having the experience of the Ballroom culture was my exposure to it. It was life changing and enriching. But RPDG and other shows have pushed it into mainstream USA let alone gay culture. It is tired and it is mean and it is pointless and I won't put up with it either unless a bitch do get up in my grill in which case I execute like A Ninja daughter and an Aviance son.

So, their lives told them they would make money lots of friends, and get a lifestyle. Instead, empty socializing bad drug sex, moribund music scene, inflation, rising homophobia, family trauma, unhealed trauma lack of caring and support, internalized homophobia and so on. I left the commitments I had because of this shit. I am now not kidding teaching men one at a time when they are willing how not to be a dick as a ghey. It helps me be a better gay too. Gayness is a wonderful gift we fought so hard to bring to freedom and now we are flooding it under empty shells of pretty things,
 

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If almost all of the women you know have mood disorders then I'd say the problem in your area isn't associated with sexual orientation or gender.

The use of drugs in whole communities as social engineering would make you freak actually. The entire American landscape is consumed by medication of social problems and some communities use mood disorder meds to whack the women out so the husbands can get loaded and play around while wifey is at home soaping the soaps with charmaine and a nice bottle of white wine. They also share the pills in working environments. The abuse and misuse is rampant. You're right to say something is wrong but it's bigger than just this instance. I also want to support your claim to bogus unhappy status for gay, It's tired.
 
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Infernal

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Shade and bitchiness are an art and they have a time and place.

I agree, and in the right circumstance, a little shade can be hilarious. For this crowd, it was 24 / 7 and it becomes tiresome after a while. One in particular went after me one night and was particularly vicious. I had bad acne as a teen and have some scars from it. He decided to call me Freddy Krueger all night long. I put a big smile on my face and emptied my wallet buying him one drink after another. A few days later, he called me to complain about being hung-over for days, and having to leave his desk and go out to the parking lot so he could throw up behind some bushes where his coworkers wouldn't see him. I reminded him that maybe he should be nicer to people because there are ways to pay people back that don't involve cruelty. He was just a miserable person, and he let his misery bleed over to pretty much all aspects of his life. Having a drag bar title stripped from him for not fulfilling his obligations didn't help. No matter. I have no place for that in my life. He, and most of that crowd are just memories of the past now.
 
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Nudistpig

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I agree, and in the right circumstance, a little shade can be hilarious. For this crowd, it was 24 / 7 and it becomes tiresome after a while. One in particular went after me one night and was particularly vicious. I had bad acne as a teen and have some scars from it. He decided to call me Freddy Krueger all night long. I put a big smile on my face and emptied my wallet buying him one drink after another. A few days later, he called me to complain about being hung-over for days, and having to leave his desk and go out to the parking lot so he could throw up behind some bushes where his coworkers wouldn't see him. I reminded him that maybe he should be nicer to people because there are ways to pay people back that don't involve cruelty. He was just a miserable person, and he let his misery bleed over to pretty much all aspects of his life. Having a drag bar title stripped from him for not fulfilling his obligations didn't help. No matter. I have no place for that in my life. He, and most of that crowd are just memories of the past now.

Calling you Freddy Krueger all night isn't shady at all, it's a tacky bitch misery's own dumpster queen feeling sorry for her busted ass. Pardon me, you didn't deserve that and I am sorry you had to deal with it. You did what I might have but perhaps I may have gone a little more hardcore in the past. Usually I just told security to put them in the street and not let them back in for a month. I was lucky coming up in that I had a really fabulous and generally kind group of reprobates and sodomites to hang with but I was also insulated somewhat by proximity to the center so to speak.

My big realization is that I need to spend 6-8 months in the country where I can do the kinds of individual and small group body work, yoga, dancing nude in the rain, peer to peer and detox work I know we need but that I don't have patience for being in the urban chaos. City rest of the time doing the other end of that work here. Hardest thing is finding gay friends not from my past but present. I have not one. I really just want to hang out, laugh, eat and fuck with men who don't much care about the little shit and who put niceness and care first.
 

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Calling you Freddy Krueger all night isn't shady at all, it's a tacky bitch misery's own dumpster queen feeling sorry for her busted ass. Pardon me, you didn't deserve that and I am sorry you had to deal with it. You did what I might have but perhaps I may have gone a little more hardcore in the past. Usually I just told security to put them in the street and not let them back in for a month. I was lucky coming up in that I had a really fabulous and generally kind group of reprobates and sodomites to hang with but I was also insulated somewhat by proximity to the center so to speak.

Thanks. They were tired old queens, even though many of them were my age, or younger. Of that group, I only stayed friends with 3 of them. One passed away 8 years ago, and it really bothered me. The other moved away and made a much better life for himself. I haven't seen him in years, but we do chat online once in a while. The last is a dear friend these days. She was one of two women in the group, and underage at the time. She didn't go out with us very often, and we went through some weird shit together. Almost 30 years later, we're still friends. I call her my sister from another mister. Her daughter considers me her uncle, and even her ultra conservative, republican husband thinks highly of me. Those years weren't a complete waste. I came out of it with some amazing friends. I can only guess that the rest of them are still miserable in life. If that's the case, then they worked long and hard to make it happen and they got exactly what they wanted out of life.

I saw a comment further up about the social landscape being consumed by the medication of social problems. It reminded me of something at a large gathering at my house once. In my mid 20's, the same time period from above, I was having issues with being moody and depressed. I took an SSRI for about 2 years, then made changes in my life and no longer needed it. Twenty five years later, I was preparing for a cross country move, and since I couldn't take a chest freezer full of food, I invited everyone I knew, and grilled a shitload of meat to get rid of it. As the evening was winding down, everyone sitting at the table was talking about their issues. I realized that of the 30 or so people in my house, equally mixed between gay and straight, I was the only one not taking some sort of anti-depressant, or anti-psychotic medication. Now some people truly need them and it improves their quality of life. The majority of the group in my house was talking them as a crutch to avoid having to deal with their problems. At least one of them had been an alcoholic. He had been sober for decades, but in reality he traded one drug for another and used it to help him get through the day. I think some self examination and a little therapy would have made him a better person, without the medication. Unfortunately, he had been self medicating all of his life and didn't have the skills to deal with everyday life.
 

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Neoliberal capitalism has been expressed as schizoid, destabilizing, dehumanizing, fractioning, objectifying and emptied out of significance. We have known for over a century that buying things we need and don't need cannot make us happy. The system we are under is incapable of delivering on the fundamental promises of the Enlightenment regarding human emancipation. We know the system cannot make the space in which large scale happiness is a feature rather than a horizon of vanishing hope, so we have created a narcotic and analgesic security blanket to numb and slow and juice and crush the pain and the spirit into the kind of meat that will not revolt even against its own jailors. Here's the thing. We are not medicating social problems. The medication is the social problem, but it intersects with work, and in all cases employed or unemployed, the work requires medication to render the worker compliant. It also robs them of their autonomy and keeps the nation in the throws of addiction at every level.
 
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I have known a lot of gay men over the years and only one would I call bright and happy but Mike died of AIDS. Every other gay man I have known has been dour at best with ranges to downright miserable.

I think many gay men are lonely because they don’t keep sustainable relationships.
 
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