Why are they trying to force sexual fluidity onto gay men

[Gre22]

Because you see it everywhere in gay TV shows they have The gay male character have sex with a woman to discuss sexual fluidity. there’s a Broadway play called "cock" with the guy from Kingsman playing a gay guy who fell in love with a woman. sex shops are selling pussy toys to gay men and gay porn they have an so-called openly gay men having sex with women. It’s like they pushing this straight agenda onto gay men but they’re not doing that to lesbian women because if they try to do that to lesbian the lesbian women will be upset. they are literally try to erase the G to change it into a umbrella term. The whole queer community has a strong hatred towards gay men in a try to say they going after white gay men but they’re actually going after gay man of every race. They try to maké bisexual pansexual and whatever new label they come up with popular and try to get rid of the existence of gay men who are the foundation of the LGBT community. they literally using homophobia against gay men and homophobic tactics like gay men are misogynistic for not dating a woman or having sex with a woman. The weird queer community is trying to say that game and are living in a box because they do not wanna have sex with a woman how we are living in a box and we are living outside the box of normalcy they trying to literally trying to push us back in the box pushes back in the closet I thought I heard is homophobic conversion therapy rhetoric from the right wingers but now I’m hearing this same homophobic stuff from the left-wing as well this is getting freaking ridiculous

 

[MisterB]

I'm stumped by this post/thread as I don't see how your thoughts expressed here are different from how many straight folks feel about gay sex.

I don't understand why others concern themselves with other folks' sex lives.

Unless it directly affects them.

And I see no evidence of that here.

I don't care who other folks are sleeping with.

Regardless of how these people choose to identify.

If someone floats your boat, take the cruise, lol.

 

[LPSG Simon]

I see fluidity evolving in a lot of angles in society, it's something that comes with realizing that we have intersectional identities (and struggles).

I see it as moving along from old binaries (like gay bi straight), and into something a bit less declared as an identity that people have to align themselves with (I've personally always detested tribal identity-fascism, especially from gay men who, of all people ought to know better). I think the world in general is moving toward something that is a lot less fixed and these tensions are the growing pains that come with that.

The second thing you're touching on however is Media Representation, and I see what you're saying and agree that there could certainly some sort of tension going on there. But to flip the coin this is nothing new. Look at Will and Grace for example. That was not queer TV. That was straight people-TV that used gay stereotypes to attract (and make the content palatable) to straight people.

Identity paradigms and media representation have ALWAYS been divergent, even though media often is mistaken for what is going on in society (hence why propaganda is effective), so I think that it's important for the sake of this discussion to make the distinction and let us know which of two things that you might be asking about?

 

[jaybee0560]

Because you see it everywhere in gay TV shows they have The gay male character have sex with a woman to discuss sexual fluidity. there’s a Broadway play called "cock" with the guy from Kingsman playing a gay guy who fell in love with a woman. sex shops are selling pussy toys to gay men and gay porn they have an so-called openly gay men having sex with women. It’s like they pushing this straight agenda onto gay men but they’re not doing that to lesbian women because if they try to do that to lesbian the lesbian women will be upset. they are literally try to erase the G to change it into a umbrella term. The whole queer community has a strong hatred towards gay men in a try to say they going after white gay men but they’re actually going after gay man of every race. They try to maké bisexual pansexual and whatever new label they come up with popular and try to get rid of the existence of gay men who are the foundation of the LGBT community. they literally using homophobia against gay men and homophobic tactics like gay men are misogynistic for not dating a woman or having sex with a woman. The weird queer community is trying to say that game and are living in a box because they do not wanna have sex with a woman how we are living in a box and we are living outside the box of normalcy they trying to literally trying to push us back in the box pushes back in the closet I thought I heard is homophobic conversion therapy rhetoric from the right wingers but now I’m hearing this same homophobic stuff from the left-wing as well this is getting freaking ridiculous

I dunno if I agree with any of that.
For starters - sexual fluidity exists - bisexuality exists, most gay men at some point have been with women before they felt comfortable enuff to live true.
The vast majority of Gay representation if have seen in - literally anything be it movies or porn is straight forward Gay men being gay men. If I had any complaints its around the gay characters being too one dimensional, feeding into tropes than representing them as multifaceted actual people. But - the saying that there is a movement to water down gay to be more fluid isn't supported by any evidence past very specific far and few between examples.
As for sex toys - wow - you go to a sexshop, there are fake pussys/ arses/ Dildo's - and they all sit on a shelf so you can buy whatever you want. No one has ever once pushed me into buying a fake pussy over a fake arse - and literally millions of lesbians buy cock shaped dildo's.
I have never once had a serious discission about gay men being misogynistic - unless that gay man was actually being misogynistic.
So - it all sounds a bit like what the first poster said - just catering to an audience doesn't equate to "pushing some agenda" .. anymore than having Gay representation in mainstream movies is pushing the homosexual agenda.

 

[dreambridger]

I'm stumped by this post/thread as I don't see how your thoughts expressed here are different from how many straight folks feel about gay sex.

Well, it's not different, it's the same problem and it's still relevant. Straight or gay, it can still be upsetting to be made to feel like you're not progressive if you're not bisexual (or whatever made-up word they have for bisexual these days).

 

[colorfulkent]

I dunno if I agree with any of that.
For starters - sexual fluidity exists - bisexuality exists, most gay men at some point have been with women before they felt comfortable enuff to live true.
The vast majority of Gay representation if have seen in - literally anything be it movies or porn is straight forward Gay men being gay men. If I had any complaints its around the gay characters being too one dimensional, feeding into tropes than representing them as multifaceted actual people. But - the saying that there is a movement to water down gay to be more fluid isn't supported by any evidence past very specific far and few between examples.
As for sex toys - wow - you go to a sexshop, there are fake pussys/ arses/ Dildo's - and they all sit on a shelf so you can buy whatever you want. No one has ever once pushed me into buying a fake pussy over a fake arse - and literally millions of lesbians buy cock shaped dildo's.
I have never once had a serious discission about gay men being misogynistic - unless that gay man was actually being misogynistic.
So - it all sounds a bit like what the first poster said - just catering to an audience doesn't equate to "pushing some agenda" .. anymore than having Gay representation in mainstream movies is pushing the homosexual agenda.

I know few gay men who have been with women. Maybe one that I know of.

 

[colorfulkent]

fluidity flies against the struggle to claim identity for many older gays. We fought against arguments that we can change our sexuality, fluidity implies we can.

 

[nhguy78]

Because you see it everywhere in gay TV shows they have The gay male character have sex with a woman to discuss sexual fluidity. there’s a Broadway play called "cock" with the guy from Kingsman playing a gay guy who fell in love with a woman. sex shops are selling pussy toys to gay men and gay porn they have an so-called openly gay men having sex with women. It’s like they pushing this straight agenda onto gay men but they’re not doing that to lesbian women because if they try to do that to lesbian the lesbian women will be upset. they are literally try to erase the G to change it into a umbrella term. The whole queer community has a strong hatred towards gay men in a try to say they going after white gay men but they’re actually going after gay man of every race. They try to maké bisexual pansexual and whatever new label they come up with popular and try to get rid of the existence of gay men who are the foundation of the LGBT community. they literally using homophobia against gay men and homophobic tactics like gay men are misogynistic for not dating a woman or having sex with a woman. The weird queer community is trying to say that game and are living in a box because they do not wanna have sex with a woman how we are living in a box and we are living outside the box of normalcy they trying to literally trying to push us back in the box pushes back in the closet I thought I heard is homophobic conversion therapy rhetoric from the right wingers but now I’m hearing this same homophobic stuff from the left-wing as well this is getting freaking ridiculous

Imagine what us asexuals in homoromantic marriage has to deal with. I'm married to a man because I love him and not because of any perceived sexual attraction.

Also, gay for pay? Are we going to hate on those porn stars? There are people who say because someone is bi or pan that they can't decide - much of it from gay men. Bi/pan obviously aren't necessarily promiscuous. Who cares if they are?

It's always a good idea to be open minded about that which you do not understand. Regardless of what happens in consensual porn, regardless.of.how disgusting it is to you, it's their life/lives. It does not or should not affect you. If a gay man fucking pussy disturbs you, turn off the porn. If an asexual experiencing sex for the first time makes you confused, oh well. If a bi hung guy getting railed by a small dicked stud makes your head spin, you might need to figure out why.

 

[nhguy78]

fluidity flies against the struggle to claim identity for many older gays. We fought against arguments that we can change our sexuality, fluidity implies we can.

Fluidity is not the same as the reparative therapy idea. Fluidity is not a choice since sexuality is not a choice. One does not wake up one day and decide to be gay, bi, pan, hetero, asexual, intersex, etc.

 

[nhguy78]

Well, it's not different, it's the same problem and it's still relevant. Straight or gay, it can still be upsetting to be made to feel like you're not progressive if you're not bisexual (or whatever made-up word they have for bisexual these days).

I think this idea comes from feeling overshadowed. Gay men have long had the spotlight as the standard bearers of non-heterosexual life. Now we know there are many different types of attractions are just as valid as being homosexual.

Bisexuality is being attracted to two genders, one usually being your own. Pansexuality is attraction to all genders without regard to gender whereas Omnisexuality is similar but gender has some influence. Asexuality is no or rare sexual attraction.

 

[Brodie888]

I think the reality is that people are not as heterosexual as religion and old social norms would have us believe.

The term sexual fluidity is simply a gateway for "straight" people to feel comfortable about exploring their same sex part of their bisexuality.

For too long, men who have sex with men was seen by everyone as a one way door into homosexuality.

When a straight person comes out as bisexual, this is often met with eye rolling by gay men who see bisexuality as a soft landing transmission into homosexuality.

So while it is insulting to make out that sexuality is changeable, it is at least a move in the right direction of people expressing their true nature and that a degree of same sex attraction is common.

 

[dreambridger]

I think this idea comes from feeling overshadowed. Gay men have long had the spotlight as the standard bearers of non-heterosexual life. Now we know there are many different types of attractions are just as valid as being homosexual.

Bisexuality is being attracted to two genders, one usually being your own. Pansexuality is attraction to all genders without regard to gender whereas Omnisexuality is similar but gender has some influence. Asexuality is no or rare sexual attraction.

I think the problem is the pendulum swung too dramatically in the opposite direction. I would agree that bisexual representation is very important, but instead of a gradual acceptance and understanding and integration, there was a sudden shift to a general partiality towards an overarching sexual fluidity over the reality of gender preference for many people. It feels like instead of promoting inclusion for the sexually fluid, they're replacing what was instead of simply including the variation. I'd even say that the variation was already peacefully included for the most part until it became the primary paradigm very suddenly.

I advocate strongly for my bisexual friends and respect what a difficult identity it must be. I think the new buzzwords you've mentioned is evidence for that in that they'd rather come up with new terms than identify as bisexual. My joke is that the difference between a bisexual and a pansexual is like the difference between a horse and a unicorn: They're essentially the same animal except for the fact that one of them is made up.

I do think it's good that there's more of a space for self-discovery among bisexuals but think that the reservations some have about the direction that culture is taking is something to dialoged about with mutual respect instead of a battle for controlling the narrative, and I think that goes for a lot of issues in today's social climate.

 

[nhguy78]

I think the problem is the pendulum swung too dramatically in the opposite direction. I would agree that bisexual representation is very important, but instead of a gradual acceptance and understanding and integration, there was a sudden shift to a general partiality towards an overarching sexual fluidity over the reality of gender preference for many people. It feels like instead of promoting inclusion for the sexually fluid, they're replacing what was instead of simply including the variation. I'd even say that the variation was already peacefully included for the most part until it became the primary paradigm very suddenly.

I advocate strongly for my bisexual friends and respect what a difficult identity it must be. I think the new buzzwords you've mentioned is evidence for that in that they'd rather come up with new terms than identify as bisexual. My joke is that the difference between a bisexual and a pansexual is like the difference between a horse and a unicorn: They're essentially the same animal except for the fact that one of them is made up.

I do think it's good that there's more of a space for self-discovery among bisexuals but think that the reservations some have about the direction that culture is taking is something to dialoged about with mutual respect instead of a battle for controlling the narrative, and I think that goes for a lot of issues in today's social climate.

The "made up" words had to come from somewhere. We are always seeking to describe our experiences such that it fits with our knowledge of language. How do you describe a person who a man who is also attracted to trans or intersex people equally with men and women and non-binary people?

I do kinda agree that media tends to ride the pendulum of trends but it's not unhelpful to have these words to describe our sexualities and gender identities. Remember that anyone who is not 100% cis-heterosexual is a de factor member of our community. In a perfect world, even heterosexuals would understand that even they can relate to asexuals since experience no sexual attraction to a degree - just one particular gender.

Sooner or later we will finally come to terms that sexuality and gender are all spectrums and that not everyone is in a clearly defined silo. That's what makes humanity fascinating and diverse. While, it may seem tedious to learn about all these variations, accepting them is our only way out of this anti-LGBTQ+ and homophobia, transphobia, and aphonia so prevalent.

 

[jaybee0560]

I know few gay men who have been with women. Maybe one that I know of.

fluidity flies against the struggle to claim identity for many older gays. We fought against arguments that we can change our sexuality, fluidity implies we can.

First point - I'm 55 - most of my friends who came out as gay - like the vast majority, were married at some point because that's what you did when it was less easy to come out as gay - that's my experience but - my point still stands regardless of your experience.
Bisexuals exist - sexuality can be fluid. which brings me to your second point.

Fluidity does not in any way, fly in the face of anyone claiming any sexual identity anymore than saying that some men are gay goes against anyone who claims some men are straight. If you are sexually fluid - that is YOUR sexuality .. it hardly implies that literally everyone can be or is sexually fluid.

How do we go from "Some people are sexually fluid" to "Well then if you're gay why don't you just choose to be straight"
If you are gay - you are gay - if you are bi - you are bi - if you are asexual - then you are asexual and if you are fluid - guess what?.. you're fluid

 

[Smallteaplant]

I sorta of agree with the op. This is one of the ideas that I struggle against since I heard of the idea. As a someone from a religious background in the South, I find the idea of sexual fluidity to be a slap in the face.


Not everyone lives in a sexually permissive environment. I was going to write an article about this. If sexuality is fluid, then homosexuals have no rights. I know that this is porn site so I'm going to assume that people are more likely to be more sexually open than the general population. If you look at the history of homosexual rights, the rights were for congenital homosexuality. Not acquired homosexuality. The sodomy laws were repealed on the condition that those who had aquired homosexualiy were locked and that homosexuality wouldn't be advertised in the public.

also, people really aren’t tolerant of homosexuality. Most people pretend to go along with it, because more people don’t want to get fired.

Fluidity is not the same as the reparative therapy idea. Fluidity is not a choice since sexuality is not a choice. One does not wake up one day and decide to be gay, bi, pan, hetero, asexual, intersex, etc.

You haven't read any of their new information. They're using the idea of sexual fluidity to promote their practices. Also, they now argue that they use techniques that can help manage a client's same sex attraction, so that their opposite sex attraction can emerge. So that leave same sex attracted folks as a bind. I don’t mind ex gay therapy. People can do what they want.

 

[RazorUniverse]

I agree we have to be open and accepting towards all sorts of sexuality. However until the day we all have the same equal rights and we are all free from pressure to conform to what someone else says is normal, until that day, all the straight allies, and bi/pan, and in porn G4P currently in opposite sex relationships need to shout their solidarity and vote the right way every time!!!

I’m not going to talk about gender because I am a cis gay male

 

[nhguy78]

I sorta of agree with the op. This is one of the ideas that I struggle against since I heard of the idea. As a someone from a religious background in the South, I find the idea of sexual fluidity to be a slap in the face.


Not everyone lives in a sexually permissive environment. I was going to write an article about this. If sexuality is fluid, then homosexuals have no rights. I know that this is porn site so I'm going to assume that people are more likely to be more sexually open than the general population. If you look at the history of homosexual rights, the rights were for congenital homosexuality. Not acquired homosexuality. The sodomy laws were repealed on the condition that those who had aquired homosexualiy were locked and that homosexuality wouldn't be advertised in the public.

also, people really aren’t tolerant of homosexuality. Most people pretend to go along with it, because more people don’t want to get fired.



You haven't read any of their new information. They're using the idea of sexual fluidity to promote their practices. Also, they now argue that they use techniques that can help manage a client's same sex attraction, so that their opposite sex attraction can emerge. So that leave same sex attracted folks as a bind. I don’t mind ex gay therapy. People can do what they want.

If their definition of fluidity is that one can choose one sexuality over another then they are wrong. Shaming fluidity because of a perceived ability to change ones sexuality is also wrong. Fluidity is like water. Water does not decide to flow one direction or another. Lightning does not decide where to strike.

 

[Smallteaplant]

I agree we have to be open and accepting towards all sorts of sexuality. However until the day we all have the same equal rights and we are all free from pressure to conform to what someone else says is normal, until that day, all the straight allies, and bi/pan, and in porn G4P currently in opposite sex relationships need to shout their solidarity and vote the right way every time!!!

That's impossible because of the nature of sex and biology. Heterosexual copulation leads to an increase in population. So it's bound to be favored by cultural institutions and the government. Even hetero sex is still monitored and regulated. I heard so many heterosexual people that couldn't pursue the someone that they're interested in because of race and religion. Heck, my mother wasn't keen on interracial dating. This is my problem with the queer movement, it doesn't address that fact that we have an embodied(binary sex) reality. People in the real world are limited by their race and sex. I doubt that straight people outside of porn/this site/ and the queer movement would happily endorse these ideals.

If their definition of fluidity is that one can choose one sexuality over another then they are wrong. Shaming fluidity because of a perceived ability to change ones sexuality is also wrong. Fluidity is like water. Water does not decide to flow one direction or another. Lightning does not decide where to strike.

I don't know. It's complicated. People have sex for a variety of reasons. They also ascribe various meanings to sex. And sex is still and will be regulated by one's culture and government.

 

[NekkedMan]

Yes, I can see how new terms are just a way to put claim on something that is nothing new. But I understand the point that even though everyone can be attracted to anything or some can put it on a scale (10%, 20%…) some 'Gay Men' (the largest group in LGBTQ) are feeling erased after being used to being the golden boys for so long. So question who you mean by 'they'?
Have you considered they are Russians and Chinese trying to treat 'gays' as non-human and getting people to turn on each other like they quite possibly have done with American politics.

Here's a scarier thought: what if it is all humanity that is being erased starting with LGB… one at a time as a disposable voice and anyone with potential power in the democratic world as 'toxic'. Think what is trained to be JEALOUS of HUMANITY… You are starring at it in your browser:
A.I.s quite possibly written by the Russians, Chinese and any other homophobic or anti-democracy country.

Just visit a Chinese website or facebook page: it's how great motherland is, how great and smart the children are. Visit top stories in America, it's all the schlocky Trump/Kardashian 'stories' propelled to the top and stupid things kids do 'you won't believe what they do next?', 'their life is getting sadder and sadder', etc. Do you think humans write those clichés?

​

 

[dreambridger]

some 'Gay Men' (the largest group in LGBTQ) are feeling erased after being used to being the golden boys for so long.

​

This is something I keep hearing and I really don't understand it and have never observed it. When were gay men ever the "golden boy"? has it occurred to anyone that maybe the reason gay men are upset about fluidity agendas is because they keep hearing this condescending sentiment and it's totally untrue to anyone's experience? @nhguy78 had said something similar about gay men feeling "overshadowed". Do you guys really think that the grievances some gay men are sharing about this come from jealousy over the limelight in the great social oppression showcase extravaganza? I mean, does anyone even *like* that kind of attention; how could you accuse anyone of wanting that?

Well, speaking for myself, I don't want that kind of attention, I just want to live my life, which is what most of us want whether gay or bi or trans. Most of us don't want to be in the crossfire of a culture war (much less used as pawns). So I'm getting a little annoyed being told my opinions about gender politics have anything to do with wanting some kind of cultural attention back, because I never remember having that attention in the first place, and I never asked for it anyway. It's a great way to write off what anyone has to say about this and it's completely unfounded.