"Why are you gay" @ Yankee Stadium

Scorpiorising

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Wow! All of this is disconcerting. I am a gay male and have been lucky enough to have had very little hatred and discrimination brought upon me. There is so much I want to say here in response to the video and to past comments.

To start, I understand the circumstances behind the video; Redsox fans in the Yankee bleachers. Yes, the song is offensive. Yes, the surrounding people awful for allowing it. Regardless of the song's words, humiliation is a product of fear and hate. However, how does one deal with such humiliation?

Violence. I spent several years training in martial arts, and regardless of the belief of those who think it the skills will arm them with the martial ability to destroy their enemies, they are wrong. The philosophy of martial ability is to prevent a fight. The art of war is not to declare war but to prevent it as much as possible. The Red Sox fans did well to simply sit and wait out the atrocity since there was no actual threat of physical violence (one must discern threats carefully). There is a portion in The Art of War which declares that in order to produce fear and submission of a threat one should cut off the head of the messenger and have it returned to the one who threatens, however, that is to be done only under circumstances where it will prevent further threats and worse, War. If the action is only going to bring about needless war, then the above action should be rethought. Violence and physical self defense is not always the answer. Dignity and preservation is always the answer. Careful and thought out correction. And of course, always respect for one's enemies (hence a bow before any sparring in martial arts). Anyhow, that may or may not make sense to everyone. We all have a tendency to come from a place of attack and defense. It's within our animal nature.

As for being a gay male. There are paths I have chosen in this life, paths that have been chosen for me, and paths that are merely a product of circumstance. I for instance, chose to become a massage therapist. The fact that I have to become certified and licensed is a path chosen for me. The fact that I can't work until I am certified and licensed is a product of circumstance. The path of a homosexual male is neither an easy one nor one I would have chosen for myself. Sure, I can be rebelious of social confinment, but I never particularly liked the 'homosexual lifestyle' or 'underworld'. I've tried celibacy and avoiding relationships. I still develop crushes regardless. I've fallen in love in spite of myself and have developed relationships. Point is, I can try with all of my might NOT to be homosexual, but it's not going to work. I can have sex with women or not have sex at all, but my orientation will always be toward men whether I want it to be or not. To try to deny those feelings would be a lie to myself.

Does the above mean I must tolerate hatred? No. But, one must understand that every situation and every belief will be subject to someone else's intolerance and hatred. Excuse me for going to the other extreme here, but even the white male straight christian who attends church everyday and believes a certain way will be subject to someone else's attacks. No one is exempt. I hate the word 'tolerance' because it lacks understanding. I once had some born again christian friends who were against homosexuality. They voiced to another friend, about me, 'hate the sin, love the sinner.' That was offensive and I never spoke to them again. Do I hate them for it? No. That is their belief and I understand where they are coming from and respect it, though I don't agree with it. However, their attitude of me was 'tolerance' and not respect, and I can't accept that. Sadly, that may be the only option with so many different beliefs around and so many people refusing to research and understand one another.

Moral, just as I as a homosexual expect to make the same wages, live the same good life as anyone else, the Red Sox fan should be able to sit where ever they like (and the Yankees fan, as well). Does this mean that it won't be met with hatred? Of course not. Is there a solution? No. The only solution is maintaining one's own dignity.
 

Matthew

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If you want to be a homophobe, expect criticism - violent criticism in some circumstances.
 

a610guy

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My reason for posting this video wasn't that I thought
the two guys they were taunting were gay

It was the fact that they decided to taunt 2 Red Sox
fans sitting in Yankee beachers using gay imagery,
as though being gay or sucking dick is the worst
thing in the world for a man. And also if you're a
fan of the Red Sox you must be gay (ie weak,
pathetic, etc...)

It just goes along with society using 'gay" as a
synonym for something bad, lame, ugly or generally distasteful.

That outfit is so gay.
Her older brother is so gay.
That TV show is gay.

It just gets old.
 

Willy_the_Wonka

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Touché, Matthew, and Thank You.




"WANT" to be homosexual. :rolleyes: If it wasn't so funny, I'd think of it as insulting.


And yes, a610guy.... It does get old, when the worst insuklt you can level at someone is "That's so gay". I hear it from coworkers all day. Then, they have the timerity to look over their shoulder and say "oh sorry, Bill".

Gee. Thanks.
 

SomeGuyOverThere

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I see some people defending it because it's Red Sox fans...

Would it be simialrly acceptable if those morons were chanting "Why are you black?"

If you want to be gay, expect criticism, violent criticism in some circumstances. That's my opinion, I'm all for equal rights, but homosexuality will never be 100% acceptable to all people, it's fact, some people (like me) don't think it's right, but the majority of most people, will get on with it.
As suggested by many other posters, try enguaging your brain before communicating.

I find it somewhat amusing that you say the above yet yesterday you posted in the "Young and Hung" forum asking for comments on your dick pics.

Fishing for compliments from men eh? Isn't that "not right"? Or is it ok as long as they're totally straight and not interested in your cock at all?
 

ganja4me

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Even if the Red Sox fans weren't gay it still doesn't justify what they did. When you make fun of someone that way you are asking for trouble. It was a dumb thing for them to do. The reason people don't like this video is because they were calling someone gay as if it is such a bad thing to be and to top it off it was over a baseball team that they liked.
 

deepwader

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We are about to have, in England, legislation which would make inciting hatred based on sexuality, a specific "hate crime"

As a gay man, I do not think we need it.

What was happening at that stadium, had it taken place in an English football stadium, would ALREADY have been unlawful. The "singers" are using threatening, abusive or insulting words and behaviour con. s4(1) Publi Order Act 1986.

It would be exactly the same if they were singing "Why are you FAT?" or "Why are you STRAIGHT"

If conduct is such as to cause people to fear for their safety, those people should have the impartial protection of the law, no matter what the animus of those who threaten them. Muslims should be protected from Nazis, and Nazis from Liberals!

We do not need specific anti-discrimination laws and anti-hate laws to protect gays and if it were up to me we would not have them to protect any minority. Provided that speech does not put people in fear of immediate violence, it should be free.

As to contractual matters: I would like to have the freedom to choose to employ that nice looking gay boy with the bulging pants as my secretary rather than that woman with enormous knockers. I would like other people to have the freedoms I want for myself.
 

DC_DEEP

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My reason for posting this video wasn't that I thought
the two guys they were taunting were gay

It was the fact that they decided to taunt 2 Red Sox
fans sitting in Yankee beachers using gay imagery,
as though being gay or sucking dick is the worst
thing in the world for a man. And also if you're a
fan of the Red Sox you must be gay (ie weak,
pathetic, etc...)

It just goes along with society using (or even accepting other people using) 'gay" as a
synonym for something bad, lame, ugly or generally distasteful.

That outfit is so gay.
Her older brother is so gay.
That TV show is gay.

It just gets old.
I think most of us understood that. I heard one of my nephews, when he was in high school, use "gay" as a synonym for "lame." I spoke to my sister about it, and I guess she spoke to him about it. It never again happened in front of me.

And yes, a610guy.... It does get old, when the worst insuklt you can level at someone is "That's so gay". I hear it from coworkers all day. Then, they have the timerity to look over their shoulder and say "oh sorry, Bill".

Gee. Thanks.
What they actually mean is "sorry that you caught me being such a jerk, Bill." Right? If their "apology" had any sincerity at all, they wouldn't continue to do that... in your presence or not.
 

Bbucko

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If you want to be gay, expect criticism, violent criticism in some circumstances. That's my opinion, I'm all for equal rights, but homosexuality will never be 100% acceptable to all people, it's fact, some people (like me) don't think it's right, but the majority of most people, will get on with it.

How old are you anyway? Ten?

And what the hell does the phrase "the majority of most people" mean?
 

Rugbypup

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If you want to be gay, expect criticism, violent criticism in some circumstances. That's my opinion, I'm all for equal rights, but homosexuality will never be 100% acceptable to all people, it's fact, some people (like me) don't think it's right, but the majority of most people, will get on with it.

WANT! to be gay!?

Is anyone else beyond enraged by that!?

Jesus mate, I say this with sincerest meaning... i truly pity you for such blinding, ignorent and bigoted rhetoric that i have ever seen on this, otherwise elightened, site.

As a fellow Englishman and man, you bring shame on all of us.
 

earllogjam

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If you want to go to an organized sporting event, expect to be surrounded by idiots, raging idiots in some circumstances.

Same could probably be said about posting on the internet.

Ain't that the truth. The last baseball game I went to 5 guys around me were rounded up and put into the vomit filled time-out pen at the stadium for drunkeness.

This is the reason why you bring a baseball bat to games. One swift thwack to the guy and your problems are over. The guy would have more than a black eye to bring home if it were me. Nope, the only thing a drunk moron can understand is to be doubled over with a jab to the gut and swift knee kick to the forehead. Lights out, end of game.
 

DaveyR

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This is the reason why you bring a baseball bat to games. One swift thwack to the guy and your problems are over. The guy would have more than a black eye to bring home if it were me. Nope, the only thing a drunk moron can understand is to be doubled over with a jab to the gut and swift knee kick to the forehead. Lights out, end of game.

But gay men can't fight and don't know how to look after themselves :rolleyes:
 

q'thulu

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No one is debating that the song was crass and that the Sox fans didn't really need to be subjected to it. The point is that the video is not nearly as offensive as it would be if they knew the guys to be gay.

Yes, in an ideal world "gay" would not be used as an insult, but this is not the world in which we live. Grow some thicker skin and stop taking everything so personally.
 

Rugbypup

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In that case, would the same apply to 'black'? How about 'nigger' or 'paki'?


'Yes, in an ideal world "gay" would not be used as an insult, but this is not the world in which we live. Grow some thicker skin and stop taking everything so personally.'

Silly thing to say...