Why becauseI'm a black man!?

[D_Sir Fitzwilly Wankheimer III]

Henry Gates could take a few tips from Bob Dylan next time.

Note to all peoplebalck or white or in btween treat the cops with respect and you'll have no problem.



You're Bob Dylan? NJ police want to see some ID



By WAYNE PARRY, Associated Press Writer Wayne Parry, Associated Press Writer – Fri Aug 14, 11:57 pm ET
Rock legend Bob Dylan was treated like a complete unknown by police in a New Jersey shore community when a resident called to report someone wandering around the neighborhood.
Dylan was in Long Branch, about a two-hour drive south of New York City, on July 23 as part of a tour with Willie Nelson and John Mellencamp that was to play at a baseball stadium in nearby Lakewood.
A 24-year-old police officer apparently was unaware of who Dylan is and asked him for identification, Long Branch business administrator Howard Woolley said Friday.
"I don't think she was familiar with his entire body of work," Woolley said.
The incident began at 5 p.m. when a resident said a man was wandering around a low-income, predominantly minority neighborhood several blocks from the oceanfront looking at houses.
The police officer drove up to Dylan, who was wearing a blue jacket, and asked him his name. According to Woolley, the following exchange ensued:
"What is your name, sir?" the officer asked.
"Bob Dylan," Dylan said.
"OK, what are you doing here?" the officer asked.
"I'm on tour," the singer replied.
A second officer, also in his 20s, responded to assist the first officer. He, too, apparently was unfamiliar with Dylan, Woolley said.
The officers asked Dylan for identification. The singer of such classics as "Like a Rolling Stone" and "Blowin' in the Wind" said that he didn't have any ID with him, that he was just walking around looking at houses to pass some time before that night's show.
The officers asked Dylan, 68, to accompany them back to the Ocean Place Resort and Spa, where the performers were staying. Once there, tour staff vouched for Dylan.
The officers thanked him for his cooperation.
"He couldn't have been any nicer to them," Woolley added.
How did it feel? A Dylan publicist did not immediately return a telephone call seeking comment Friday

 

[Flashy]

Cue: Stronzo

hysterics ensue.

 

[B_VinylBoy]

Big E: If it really was just THAT simple...

 

[Incocknito]

This is news? Not everyone knows who Bob Dylan is nor should they know who he is.

Thanks for the breaking news that police officers are doing the jobs they are paid to do.

 

[AllHazzardi]

This is news? Not everyone knows who Bob Dylan is nor should they know who he is.

Thanks for the breaking news that police officers are doing the jobs they are paid to do.

Actually, what he was referring to is that Dylan complied completely and willfully with the requests based on his lack of Identification. The issue with Henry Gates was that he was attempting to break into his own home for lack of a key, and when officers became involved, the whole issue was blown out of proportion by non-compliance and the reaction which that causes. Both parties were at fault in some way, which could have been avoided if both had been less reactive.

 

[B_VinylBoy]

Besides the good explanation that AllHazzardi provided...
Policemen are supposed to be able to handle themselves better in these high pressure situations. Civilians are not always going to be civil, nor are they always going to be calm whenever they are approached by authority figures that can take them out of society. In the case of Henry Gates, once the policemen realized that there really wasn't a problem... he should have left. However, his ego got the best of him and he arrested Gates for yelling then called it "Disorderly Conduct". That's where they messed up.

Yeah, we can look at Gates and tell him that he shouldn't have mouthed off to cops. But the only reason why we say that is because we ALL know that there are cops out there who abuse their authority and will invent any kind of excuse to stop, question or even detain you. Ask yourself... what's the BIGGER problem here? We've become so complacent with figures of authority doing the wrong thing, that we've stopped focusing on the more important issue and view the smaller problem as the primary concern. Doesn't that sound even the least bit peculiar?

That's why we have people like our OP making threads acting as if all you have to do is have the "Yes sir, no sir" mentality towards Police and you won't be bothered. And anyone who grew up in the 'hood can tell you that sometimes that just doesn't cut it.

 

[B_Stronzo]

Cue: Stronzo

hysterics ensue.

It would appear the only ensuing hysterical reaction has come from you. Hmmm.

 

[AllHazzardi]

Besides the good explanation that AllHazzardi provided...
Policemen are supposed to be able to handle themselves better in these high pressure situations. Civilians are not always going to be civil, nor are they always going to be calm whenever they are approached by authority figures that can take them out of society. In the case of Henry Gates, once the policemen realized that there really wasn't a problem... he should have left. However, his ego got the best of him and he arrested Gates for yelling then called it "Disorderly Conduct". That's where they messed up.

Yeah, we can look at Gates and tell him that he shouldn't have mouthed off to cops. But the only reason why we say that is because we ALL know that there are cops out there who abuse their authority and will invent any kind of excuse to stop, question or even detain you. Ask yourself... what's the BIGGER problem here? We've become so complacent with figures of authority doing the wrong thing, that we've stopped focusing on the more important issue and view the smaller problem as the primary concern.

That's why we have people like our OP making threads acting as if all you have to do is have the "Yes sir, no sir" mentality towards Police and you won't be bothered. And anyone who grew up in the 'hood can tell you that sometimes that just doesn't cut it.

Neither problem is bigger; I don't care about the mouthing off, I think he should've just provided complete identification- It was his house after all, he's got to have a driver's license and a deed or something somewhere. The compliance attitude is all you need to avoid such a conflict; however, as you mentioned, the "yes sir, no sir" doesn't work- This is because most delinquent children are often children of strict parents who make them say yes sir, no ma'am, and other pleasantries. The result is that in the 'hood police have turned to reject that attitude as it is often faulty and in fact a crime has been comitted. It has nothing to do with race; criminals have a long running streak of being dishonest individuals, especially when facing law enforcement.

I think the problem could've been fixed both ways; either purge the corruption in the law enforcement(rather than teaching just scenarios and base information, we should teach "state of mind"), or purge non-compliance from the people(teach individuals to respect law enforcement, because without it, our society crumbles). Even if you're being stereotyped or wrongly accused of a crime due to race; it's better to comply and maintain innocence than fight back in any way(because then they can charge you with assaulting an officer, too). So long as you are not wrongfully accused of a severe crime(rape, murder, fraud, just to name a few) which carries heavy jail-time, the attitude of compliance will get you through the process much easier. Heck, even if you did do it, compliance and admission almost always lessens sentence length. Doing both of course would be ideal, because one begets the other(corruption begets disobedience begets corruption), they must be eliminated simultaneously to truly end these problems. Neither one is bigger; in the end, they have equal impact.

 

[deleted15807]

Best comment so far:

Powell said. "Once they felt they had to bring Dr. Gates out of the house and to handcuff him, I would've thought at that point, some adult supervision would have stepped in and said 'OK look, it is his house. Let's not take this any further, take the handcuffs off, good night Dr. Gates.' "

 

[faceking]

Cue: Stronzo

hysterics ensue.

EPIC

 

[B_VinylBoy]

Neither problem is bigger; I don't care about the mouthing off, I think he should've just provided complete identification- It was his house after all, he's got to have a driver's license and a deed or something somewhere. The compliance attitude is all you need to avoid such a conflict; however, as you mentioned, the "yes sir, no sir" doesn't work- This is because most delinquent children are often children of strict parents who make them say yes sir, no ma'am, and other pleasantries. The result is that in the 'hood police have turned to reject that attitude as it is often faulty and in fact a crime has been committed. It has nothing to do with race; criminals have a long running streak of being dishonest individuals, especially when facing law enforcement.

I think the problem could've been fixed both ways; either purge the corruption in the law enforcement(rather than teaching just scenarios and base information, we should teach "state of mind"), or purge non-compliance from the people(teach individuals to respect law enforcement, because without it, our society crumbles). Even if you're being stereotyped or wrongly accused of a crime due to race; it's better to comply and maintain innocence than fight back in any way(because then they can charge you with assaulting an officer, too). So long as you are not wrongfully accused of a severe crime(rape, murder, fraud, just to name a few) which carries heavy jail-time, the attitude of compliance will get you through the process much easier. Heck, even if you did do it, compliance and admission almost always lessens sentence length. Doing both of course would be ideal, because one begets the other(corruption begets disobedience begets corruption), they must be eliminated simultaneously to truly end these problems. Neither one is bigger; in the end, they have equal impact.

I'm not looking at this from a racial angle because I know plenty of people who were harassed by Police regardless of skin color. Some even arrested for doing no crime at all.

Sargon20 posted a great sentence from Colin Powell that further explains what I'm getting at. I expect policemen to do their jobs properly and not invent excuses to cause drama. Everyone agrees to some level that Gates overreacted, but to say what he did was enough to be brought out of his home and arrested? Absolutely not. He caused no physical threat or harm to the policemen or anyone in the neighborhood. He was pissed and annoyed, as many people would be if they came home after a trip or vacation and were unexpectedly approached by Police on their front porch.

Gates was arrested purely because the policeman's ego was shattered. Yelling is not a criminal offense, nor is it "disorderly conduct". The cop can just "apologize" and go on about his business. Gates now has a criminal record that can be used against him. I can't see how anyone would look at the two "offenses" and say that they're the same in severity.

 

[D_Sir Fitzwilly Wankheimer III]

Besides the good explanation that AllHazzardi provided...
Policemen are supposed to be able to handle themselves better in these high pressure situations. Civilians are not always going to be civil, nor are they always going to be calm whenever they are approached by authority figures that can take them out of society. In the case of Henry Gates, once the policemen realized that there really wasn't a problem... he should have left. However, his ego got the best of him and he arrested Gates for yelling then called it "Disorderly Conduct". That's where they messed up.

Yeah, we can look at Gates and tell him that he shouldn't have mouthed off to cops. But the only reason why we say that is because we ALL know that there are cops out there who abuse their authority and will invent any kind of excuse to stop, question or even detain you. Ask yourself... what's the BIGGER problem here? We've become so complacent with figures of authority doing the wrong thing, that we've stopped focusing on the more important issue and view the smaller problem as the primary concern. Doesn't that sound even the least bit peculiar?

That's why we have people like our OP making threads acting as if all you have to do is have the "Yes sir, no sir" mentality towards Police and you won't be bothered. And anyone who grew up in the 'hood can tell you that sometimes that just doesn't cut it.

You're right, policemen are suposed to be able to handle themselves in high pressure situations. But they are human get paid shit and as we see get treated like shit. They know nothing about you all they have to go on is how you interact with them and just as the sun will rise in the east I can gaurangoddamntee if you treat police officers with respect you will walk out of the situation 100 times better than freaking out and being beligerent.

Classic example; I was at a movie theater. Some asshole was having a conversation on his phone durring the movie. I sat down next to him and told him to take it outside if he wants to talk. At the end of the movie the guy comes up to and demands that I appologize to him and his son or he's calling the police. You can imagine how I responded so next thing I know I'm walking home and getting picked up by the police. Being 260lbs and a wolrd class powerlifter I'm no small dude and they were't taking any chances. Once we get back to discuss the matter this guy is freaking out at me ( tough with the cops there) telling me how he's seen me around and wait till he see me with his boys) now I could have lost it and responded back I just laughed was polite and by the time everything was over the cops were on my side and I've got him on the police report threatening me. So when I do get the chance to see him again he'll get his ass beat and he'll be the one going to jail because of course i was just defending myself.

 

[B_Stronzo]

EPIC

.. in your own face (and mind)! :biglaugh:

 

[AllHazzardi]

You're right, policemen are suposed to be able to handle themselves in high pressure situations. But they are human get paid shit and as we see get treated like shit. They know nothing about you all they have to go on is how you interact with them. Freaking out and being beligerent will never work.

Classic example; I was at a movie theater. Some asshole was having a conversation on his phone durring the movie. I sat down next to him and told him to take it outside if he wants to talk. At the end of the movie the guy comes up to and demands that I appologize to him and his son or he's calling the police. You can imagine how I responded so next thing I know I'm walking home and getting picked up by the police. Being 260lbs and a wolrd class powerlifter I'm no small dude and they were't taking any chances. Once we get back to discuss the matter this guy is freaking out at me ( tough with the cops there) telling me how he's seen me around and wait till he see me with his boys) now I could have lost it and responded back I just laughed was polite and by the time everything was over the cops were on my side and I've got him on the police report threatening me. So when I do get the chance to see him again he'll get his ass beat and he'll be the one going to jail because of course i was just defending myself.

Let's not forget they also focus on training officers for handling the law, and not for proper societal interaction. If the officer had offered to Mr. Gates, after he had asked if he lived there(and he answered yes), to have a neighbor confirm his identity in lieu of identification, the entire situation would've been averted as in the case with Mr. Dylan.

However, because in the course of events Mr. Gates lost his cool(and rightfully so, in my humble opinion) he was acting in an uncivilized manner. Officers are trained to react in specific ways to a civilian acting in an uncivilized manner, and so they follow procedure. However, this was certainly an outlying case and should not have fallen under strict criminal protocol, but rather under social protocol. Innocent until proven guilty. He claims its his house after being witnessed trying to break in(the reason for the alleged crime), it should be investigated and confirmed true/false before a determination of a criminal act, and therefore necessary law enforcement reaction to criminal action. Had Mr. Gates simply provided some proof, or had the officer had the presence of mind to use a neighbor to confirm identity, the situation would've been averted. Upon positive identification, I imagine it would involve the officer apologizing for the inconvenience, and then heading on his way.

The whole point of being civil is so that at the end of the day, no individual who did not truly deserve it is any worse for wear. It gets things done a lot quicker as well.

Unfortunately, being mean is just as fast, and easier, it just doesn't last as long. But I suppose when you're concerned about the short-term and yourself, whatever works.

 

[B_VinylBoy]

You're right, policemen are suposed to be able to handle themselves in high pressure situations. But they are human get paid shit and as we see get treated like shit.

And teachers don't?

They know nothing about you all they have to go on is how you interact with them and just as the sun will rise in the east I can gaurangoddamntee if you treat police officers with respect you will walk out of the situation 100 times better than freaking out and being beligerent.

Nobody will disagree that a little kindness goes a long way. But to suggest that it always works is not true at all.

Classic example; I was at a movie theater. Some asshole was having a conversation on his phone durring the movie. I sat down next to him and told him to take it outside if he wants to talk. At the end of the movie the guy comes up to and demands that I appologize to him and his son or he's calling the police. You can imagine how I responded so next thing I know I'm walking home and getting picked up by the police. Being 260lbs and a wolrd class powerlifter I'm no small dude and they were't taking any chances. Once we get back to discuss the matter this guy is freaking out at me ( tough with the cops there) telling me how he's seen me around and wait till he see me with his boys) now I could have lost it and responded back I just laughed was polite and by the time everything was over the cops were on my side and I've got him on the police report threatening me. So when I do get the chance to see him again he'll get his ass beat and he'll be the one going to jail because of course i was just defending myself.

Consider yourself lucky. If this was in a different neighborhood with different cops, the result could have been much more severe. For instance, you could have been surrounded by several cop cars. They could have demanded you to put your hands up or lay down on the ground. Or they could have just grabbed you and threw you against a wall or on the ground in an attempt to "control the situation" before they even explain why they're approaching you. All for what... because you told someone to not talk on their phone in a movie theater and he called the Police? And let's not act like this doesn't happen in our country, or even in your own neighborhood.

We as civilians have to take into consideration that there are people out there that abuse their authority, and because of that we adjust our lives so we don't have to experience that. Because of that, we inadvertently excuse the cops who do such things and look at the civilian as the nuisance. Gates did nothing but yell and get snide with a few remarks. Perhaps Cambridge should be hiring cops that aren't so caught up in their own importance that they can take verbal lashings from a 58 year old man?

 

[blkbro510]

LOL! I love it! MUAH!

 

[houtx48]

"hysterical reaction"..............more like a hormone epic the ladies act like they are having a monthly visit.

 

[Rikter8]

I'm confused - what does the title have anything to do with this story??

Who cares if it's a predominantly black neighborhood?

They asked for ID, He gave it to them... so I'm not sure what race has anything to do with the main topic.

Trying to stir the racial smear pot are we?

 

[mynameisnobody]

Yelling is not a criminal offense, nor is it "disorderly conduct".

It isn't?

Just what do you think constitutes "disorderly conduct" in Cambridge?

When I lived there, making a persistent and noisy jerk of oneself on a public street qualified. Enough to be arrested, but generally not enough to be charged. I gather things haven't changed much in the last couple of decades, as that is what seems to have happened in l'affaire Gates.

 

[b.c.]

I'm confused - what does the title have anything to do with this story??

Who cares if it's a predominantly black neighborhood?

They asked for ID, He gave it to them... so I'm not sure what race has anything to do with the main topic.

Trying to stir the racial smear pot are we?

Bingo. You got it.

Somebody just had to post some totally UNRELATED SHIT, then toss in a reference to a "black man" just to start up the whole Crowley/Gates (or, perhaps, Gates/Crowley) issue all over again.

Trifling shit... (or, "hey, how 'bout some cheese with that WHINE?")