why can't i grasp metrics?

[ManlyBanisters]

Metric is a silly system invented by the French. The American system is far more colorful and occasionally more accurate. Viva cultural differences!

Why silly?

 

[arthurdent]

100 km = 60 miles

250ml = 1 cup

I always thought it was a bit odd when I saw American recipes where quantities were given in cups. A teacup? A coffee cup? They come in all shapes and sizes, don't they, or are they standardised in America?

Also, I think a closer approximation is 50miles = 80km, or is a US mile different to a UK mile (1760 yards)?

 

[2322]

Why silly?

Because it reinvents the wheel. Certainly I would trust the French with instructing one how to paint hairy-armpitted fat women lounging about on divans or how to bake an eel milt souffle or bollocks-up a war, but what have they done since they executed the man who invented oxygen? Is THIS the best they can come up with? Basing things on tenths of arbitrary measurements? What good is that? The good old fashioned foot is about... a foot! A rod appears to be a rod, and who has ever complained that a hogshead can't be approximated by using an actual head of a hog? We have links, furlongs (and who hasn't figured that one out by watching horse races?), pints, chains, gallons, acres, miles, fathoms, leagues, tons, and of course the good old fashioned barrel which is easily divided into beer and oil barrels. Gills may be a bit odd but very importantly a teaspoon, tablespoon, cup, and bushel look like what they're named after. You can do a fair bit of mixing up stuff just by equating the name with the thing. What does metric get you? Nothing! Unless you have some frame of reference for the thing, it's really rather pointless. Don't even get me started on miles and kilometers or worse, that horrible Celsius business which is less precise than the Fahrenheit system it was meant to replace. Who in heaven's name wants to deal with F=9/5C+32 or worse, F≈2C +30 which is only accurate to within 5 degrees Fahrenheit when 5≤F≤5! Who the hell even knows what that squiggly Aquarius symbol thingy is?? Fahrenheit works perfectly well all on its own. If we truly wished to be precise then why the hell don't we just all convert to Kelvin and call it a day?

We still know what a cubit is and can approximate it without a great deal of difficulty just by making an, 'L' shape with our forearms. Why discard a system that's worked perfectly well for centuries? Boggles my mind completely.

Don't get me wrong. I'm terribly glad the Brits ditched that whole tuppence, ha'penny, guinea, farthing, monetary system that seems to based on interpreting the I-Ching while on LSD. That was terribly inconvenient for we Americans however I must note that they still use miles when measuring distance and everyone I know names their weight in stone. See? Good habits die hard. Let the French use their own hydropneumatic Minitel™ of a measurement system because they certainly aren't going to blow-up anyone but themselves with it, save possibly for some grass-skirted French Polynesians and assorted vacationing Eurotrash, and the let the world get on with using practical units of measurement.

 

[ManlyBanisters]

Because it reinvents the wheel. Certainly I would trust the French with instructing one how to paint hairy-armpitted fat women lounging about on divans or how to bake an eel milt souffle or bollocks-up a war, but what have they done since they executed the man who invented oxygen? Is THIS the best they can come up with? Basing things on tenths of arbitrary measurements?

I suppose the other stuff preceding the bolded bit is supposed to be amusing - it sounds like xenophobic ranting, which from you, Jason, it probably isn't, but you are catering to a lower common denominator than usual and it's a cheap way of trying to convey a point.

At the bolded bit however I must snip because after that your rant is meaningless. Why? Because there is nothing arbitrary about the metric system.

The physical standard representing the meter was to be constructed so that it would equal one ten-millionth of the distance from the North Pole to the equator along the meridian running near Dunkirk in France and Barcelona in Spain. [...] Meanwhile, scientists were given the task of determining the other units, all of which had to be based upon the meter.
The initial metric unit of mass, the “gram,” was defined as the mass of one cubic centimeter — a cube that is 0.01 meter on each side — of water at its temperature of maximum density. For capacity, the “litre” (spelled “liter” in the U.S.) was defined as the volume of a cubic decimeter — a cube 0.1 meter on each side.

http://lamar.colostate.edu/~hillger/origin.html
​

Now - the intial measurement of the North Pole to Equator turns out to have been wrong* but that does not alter the fact that the basis of a meter was not plucked from thin air. Nor were any of the other units. They are, in fact, far more scientifically constant than measuring a man's foot or the length of a man's arm from his elbow to finger tip because, believe it or believe it not, men come in different sizes!

As for Celsius v's Fahrenheit - Why are you whinging about converting? - Converting anything in either direction is a pain in the arse. But if you are just using Celsius converting isn't an issue (likewise if you just use Fahrenheit, of course). Also the basis of Celsius is so fucking obvious - freezing and boiling point of water (at sea level). Easy peasy! Fahrenheit? Well apparently:

According to Fahrenheit himself in an article he wrote in 1724, his scale is based on three reference points of temperature. The zero point is determined by placing the thermometer in a mixture of ice, water, and ammonium chloride, a salt. This is a type of frigorific mixture. The mixture automatically stabilizes its temperature at 0 °F. He then put an alcohol or mercury thermometer into the mixture and let the liquid in the thermometer descend to its lowest point. The second point is the 32 degree found by putting the thermometer in still water as ice is just forming on the surface. The third point, the 96 degree, was the level of the liquid in the thermometer when held in the mouth or under the armpit.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farenhiet
​

I totally understand the second two (though body temp varies a lot depending on many factors) - but the first? WFT? Why choose that? At least it has one up on imperial units in that it is scientifically reproducible.

Metric to me, as base 10 and as having a scientifically reproducible basis for ALL units just makes more sense. The Fahrenheit scale fits better with that than the Imperial measurements for distance, weight and volume - but I still think Celsius is a better scientific scale.

Still - if the US wants to spend the rest of it days using an archaic system I guess that is its own business. but the least you could do is be honest about not wanting to change and not poo-poo the metric system for being 'silly' when it is a more scientific and overall accurate system.

*

A surveying team under the direction of two men, Pierre-Francois-Andre Mechain and Jean- Baptiste-Joseph Delambre, spent 6 years in measuring the “arc” that the earth made in a line between Dunkirk in France on the English Channel and Barcelona in Spain. The surveyors underwent much harassment and even were jailed, at times, while making their measurements, because some of the citizens and area officials resented their presence and felt they were up to no good. It was later found that Delambre and Mechain had not properly accounted for the earth's flattening in correcting for oblateness. However, the meter remains the invariable standard for the metric system, and its length has not changed even though the official expression of the definition the meter has changed several times to improve the accuracy of its measurement.

http://lamar.colostate.edu/~hillger/origin.html​

 

[prepstudinsc]

The metric system is as relevant to life in the USA as the horse and buggy or the Edsel.

The horse and buggy are relevant if you're Amish or Old Order Mennonite. :biggrin1:

 

[2322]

All of which is useful if you happen to have a meridian running through your kitchen or workshed. If you don't though, you can't make do because some PR expedition from the North Pole to where ever isn't something more people have an everyday familiarity with. The American system uses things we might see or know everyday to give us a rough approximation the way metric can't. It's much easier to imagine feet or yards and indeed, you can walk out feet yourself and not be terribly far off.

Fahrenheit is more precise than Celsius because there are smaller increments. Why change to a less precise system just because water boils or freezes within the range? The freezing and boiling point (along with cooking temps above and below) are of everyday concern to people who cook or drive or do any number of things requiring accurate measurement of temperature.

Sorry to see your sense of humor has gone on strike. You must still be in France.

You're also incorrect about the accuracy. Both systems are equally accurate. Metric is simply more convenient to anyone too lazy to learn a more complex standardized system with arguably greater benefit of usability.

 

[prepstudinsc]

If metric is good enough for the rest of the world, why are we in the US, still behind the times? I think several of Jason's posts show the answer: the US thinks that we are the only ones with any expertise, the US knows whats best for everyone, the US way is the only way. In short, it's US bias again. It's no wonder that people from the US annoy people when we go to other countries to visit. I can't tell you how many times that I have been in Europe when some redneck from Texas wearing a cowboy hat comes strolling into a restaurant and complains when they don't have "American" food. Or when an American goes into a store and complains that they have to figure out the conversion for price. HELLO! You're not in the US, get over yourself.

I would rather be on the metric system because a.) it's easier and b.) the rest of the world uses it. It would make things simpler for everyond instead of having to convert.

We in the US don't know everything, we in the US don't always have the best ideas, we in the US need to learn to be a little more humble sometimes and stop the xenophobia.
(and if you don't like it, you can suck my 25cm dick! :tongue

 

[ManlyBanisters]

But Jason - I know that a coffee spoon is 5ml. I know that my mugs hold 350ml. I know what a litre looks like because all my milk and juices come in litre tetrapaks. My bag of flour is a kilo and I know that I need to pour out a fifth of that to get 200 grams. I know that I am 1m 55cm so if I want a meter of something it needs to be about 2/3 of me. And so on and so on and so on. Frames of reference are easy when you are using any system. You get used to it.
Edit - we also have these new fangled thingies in Europe and other parts of the world called weighing scales, measuring jugs and measuring tapes. I don't feel the need to own any myself (bar the measuring tape) as I'm good at estimating measures but others folks, I'm told, find them mighty handy :wink:

Fahrenheit has smaller increments? Are you really so unable to use a decimal point in a base 10 system? No one cooks or freezes anything on a daily basis in ordinary life to such accuracy as the difference between a degree Celsius and a degree Fahrenheit matters.

The US is under no obligation to change if it does not want to. Carry on using the inferior system - it is of no consequence to me.

 

[nudeyorker]

^ I pretty much agree with what he said, but I know how to use both systems...very helpful if you cook or travel!
(MB beat me to the post...I was in agreement with PS...but now that I read I also agree with MB)

 

[Denby]

I despise the metric system and hope the new Congress and President enact legislation to outlaw it. If they do not see their way to doing so I can rest in the knowledge that I will soon be too old to care about it.

 

[2322]

But Jason - I know that a coffee spoon is 5ml. I know that my mugs hold 350ml. I know what a litre looks like because all my milk and juices come in litre tetrapaks. My bag of flour is a kilo and I know that I need to pour out a fifth of that to get 200 grams. I know that I am 1m 55cm so if I want a meter of something it needs to be about 2/3 of me. And so on and so on and so on. Frames of reference are easy when you are using any system. You get used to it.

But it's not as self-evident. You're told to toss in 350ml of anything and you'd have no idea how much that is unless you know about how much your mug holds. The American system has no such bars. A recipe calls for 3 teaspoons, even if you don't know what that comes out to, you can logically pull a teaspoon out of a drawer and get it pretty much right.

Fahrenheit has smaller increments? Are you really so unable to use a decimal point in a base 10 system? No one cooks of freezes thing on a daily basis in ordinary life to such accuracy as the difference between a degree Celsius and a degree Fahrenheit matters.

Why bother needing decimals at all? Again, you're making things less precise for no other reason than to change it and, if we were to change it, again why not use Kelvin and then we all use only ONE system?

The US is under no obligation to change if it does not want to. Carry on using the inferior system - it is of no consequence to me.

 

[invisibleman]

Concept-wise, metric system is hard for me when relating to distance. I am so used to US Imperial (inchpoundounce).

But I do use the metric system at my job. I can grasp in terms when doing conversions. I always have to have my notes.

 

[MarkLondon]

Ahem, the Imperial system is not American! It's a remnant of our (British) Empire. Though your pints, quarts and gallons are a bit different from ours, I think.

The thing that puzzles me the most, though, is why Americans don't use the stone for body weight.

 

[Gl3nn]

Actually, Jason... we're making it more precise BECAUSE we're using decimals.


And honoustly... how much easier can it be than: one, ten, one hundred, one thousand, ...

And we use that with everything! Length, weight, volume, ...


Carry on using the inferior system. It's of no consequence to me.

 

[Mem]

I think the metric system is better. All I know is that 4 liters is approximately a gallon. A meter is approximately a yard. The only way I know how long a mile is, is in a car. Going 60 miles per hour takes 60 seconds in a car for 1 mile. I know that 60 miles is almost 100 Kilometers so that is easy to understand.

 

[Mem]

The thing that puzzles me the most, though, is why Americans don't use the stone for body weight.

Because it's incredibly stupid and was used in the old days when people didn't know how much a pound weighed.

It's like measuring height with hands.

What baffles me is when people in England don't know how much they weigh in pounds.

 

[invisibleman]

Ahem, the Imperial system is not American! It's a remnant of our (British) Empire. Though your pints, quarts and gallons are a bit different from ours, I think.

The thing that puzzles me the most, though, is why Americans don't use the stone for body weight.

I am sorry for the mistake.

There is the American standard and the British IMPERIAL measures. I don't know why Americans don't use the stone. Maybe it an issue of vocabulary. I figure that there are different stones in USA and they would laugh at you when you say "I am 80 stone." They would be thinking like what kinds of stones are you using for reference...pebbles, rocks, boulders...gymstones...Plymouth Rock...Stonehenge. But then you wouldn't understand us that when an American says that they weigh 180 pounds you could/ would snicker and reply "you look more like 60 quid and a pence."

 

[2322]

Actually, Jason... we're making it more precise BECAUSE we're using decimals.

And honoustly... how much easier can it be than: one, ten, one hundred, one thousand, ...

And we use that with everything! Length, weight, volume, ...

Carry on using the inferior system. It's of no consequence to me.

Absolutely not more precise! Do you know what you're saying? You're saying that a meter is more accurate at measuring 39.37 inches or 1.097 yards than inches or yards are. All three, meter, yards, and inches, equal the same distance (or volume, weight, etc.), therefore neither is more precise or accurate than the other.

The fact is that most Americans are very happily using our system and enjoy it the way it is. If people outside the US don't like it, too bad. We don't tell you how to measure things so why do you feel you have the right to tell us? This entire argument smacks of the frankly tired Old World belief that Americans are backwards and whatever we do somehow just doesn't measure on the culture scale. This is a piece of our culture, it is our language of measurement and not only is it dear to us for its practical usability, it is one that has resisted its own government's attempts to change with declining success since the Carter years.

Europe, in particular, complains about the lack of respect the US shows to foreign cultures and I don't deny that is true. I do find it hypocritical that the moment the tables are turned, we get treated the same way as we are accused of acting.

 

[Mem]

When will the Metric system turn a day into 10 hours and a year into 10 months?

 

[WaSwimmer]

It's not only about the metric system... I understand that 5/4ths of college graduates don't understand fractions, either!