Why Conservatives must hate Obama.

B_starinvestor

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Star, you almost had me with a semi-reasonable argument for about six paragraphs and then you lost me, again. You rarely fail to disappoint.

The leaders I referenced have gained popularity and power by promoting an Anti-U.S. platform among their constituents. Even if they had a desire to reach a diplomatic co-existence they would be ostracized by the very people that supported their ascent into power.

It sounds good to initiate these talks, but the objective is flawed.

That said, Obama will strengthen ties with less radical leaders in a number of nations - I do believe that.

But getting back to the issue of economic globalization - where is he? He condemned NAFTA and that is philosophically the essence of economic globalization.

I truly believe that his remark on NAFTA was only to staple down union votes. He clearly doesn't believe NAFTA is a bad thing. This is one of the things that really bothers me about Obama.
 

B_starinvestor

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What, that as a politician and in order to be elected, and thereby achieve the greater part of his vision, he occasionally has to modify his views, scale back his objectives and play to the audience? Why star, you wide-eyed idealist, you.

Declaring that NAFTA was a huge mistake to hundreds of thousands of union members...and then twirling around and doing a 180 with economic globalization is hardly a modification.

That's like saying that when Hurricane Katrina hit, that New Orleans was overcast, with some precipitation.
 

B_Nick8

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I have to tell you, I was a big NAFTA supporter when Clinton got it through and it was only much later that I, like many others, came to see the flaws in it and the [probably shorter than longer] term pain it was going to cause. Conceptually, I'm still behind it as I'm quite sure globalization is the economic future, like it or not. It is difficult, however to justify to those who have to take the first, largest hits for it just how and why. I understand that.

I think so does Barack, as he seems to do most things. Whether or not he can explain and/or justify its continued existance or modification remains to be seen and he may be forced or even want to roll it back for the moment both for the good of those who most suffer for it now and perhaps to make good on his campaign promises. However, free trade treaties are the wave of the future collectively if protectionism isn't to doom us all individually and the sooner we find adequate and appropriate ways to deal with and manage them, the better.
 
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Drifterwood

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Global "partnership" is an interesting concept. I wonder how the Greek people whose land has all been bought up by Germans feel about that? Or Icelanders?

Hmm.

It feels like even continental "partnership" in Europe hasn't been the blazing success we'd all hoped it would be.

I truly wonder if the "New World Order" ("One World Order"?) is really in our best interest. And by "our", I mean all of us.

Do you seriously think that all of Greece has been bought by Germans? If you own property, you can dispose of it as you wish. I hope you have the same system in the States, because i am looking at buying some land in the States. How do you feel about that?

The issue of global partnership is not the problems that have to be overcome, but rather the alternative of not having it. An alternative that was well demonstrated by the Bush Administration. Inequality, War, Environmental suicide, exploitation with no care for consequence. This may be some people's idea of the right to pursue happiness, but it doesn't get my vote.
 

Drifterwood

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When you say global partnership, etc etc etc

My point, Star, was that you are playing this game of listing all the world's woes and then saying, hah hah, Obama hasn't solved them. It may be something to do with a presidential system, but generally it is ridiculous to expect one person to make the world a better safer place. You are setting him up just to shoot him down. It may make you feel good, but it's irrelevant.

My point about conservative americans is that so many of you can not or will not see the world in any other terms than your own. In the UK, such people are known as little engalnders. You are maybe 2% of the world's population yet you treat the place like you own it. That is why so many say Fuck you and you take this as anti american, well you would, wouldn't you? but it isn't, it is anti your world view. You are so arrogant that you take your view to be (holds clenched fist to chest and fights back a tear) the true America.

This view isn't in power any more. We are celebrating, still, you are bitchin. You have to hate on Obama.

FWIW, I work at the coalface of the globalised economy and I would not agree that NAFTA is indicative of the system. But then this thread isn't about that.
 

B_starinvestor

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My point, Star, was that you are playing this game of listing all the world's woes and then saying, hah hah, Obama hasn't solved them. It may be something to do with a presidential system, but generally it is ridiculous to expect one person to make the world a better safer place. You are setting him up just to shoot him down. It may make you feel good, but it's irrelevant.

My point about conservative americans is that so many of you can not or will not see the world in any other terms than your own. In the UK, such people are known as little engalnders. You are maybe 2% of the world's population yet you treat the place like you own it. That is why so many say Fuck you and you take this as anti american, well you would, wouldn't you? but it isn't, it is anti your world view. You are so arrogant that you take your view to be (holds clenched fist to chest and fights back a tear) the true America.

This view isn't in power any more. We are celebrating, still, you are bitchin. You have to hate on Obama.

FWIW, I work at the coalface of the globalised economy and I would not agree that NAFTA is indicative of the system. But then this thread isn't about that.

This is a bit of a comic book definition of a conservative mindset.

I've not complained that Obama is failing at solving our current issues. I've complained, primarily, that there is a tremendous amount of dishonesty that is constantly projected from his voice box.

Changing a strategy on an issue or agenda after gathering information/briefings is one thing. Deliberately lying from the outset without the slightest intention of delivering on it is quite another. The latter has become Obama's MO.

Did the conservatives fuck up a lot of things in recent history? Abso-fucking-lutely. However, erecting this persona of a chest-pounding elitist is a silly embellishment.

The business community is apprehensive about Obama because, frankly, he doesn't know anything about business. The conservative community is not thrilled about growing government. Many people are discouraged by the numerous incidences of false promises, lies, trickery, flip-flopping and irony.

But strengthening international alliances is not why conservatives 'hate' Obama as your OP suggests.