Why did HazelGod get banned?

[D_Gunther Snotpole]

Would it be the same if it was a black guy saying it to a white guy i wonder.

I don't think so.

I think there appears to be a serious PC imbalance when rational thinking has given way to protecting the the ultra-sensitive. Either that or...as dragonfly20 reckons. Wonder which it is.

The funny thing is that VB is not all that thin-skinned.
His rebuttal to HG's remark seemed not to touch on racial concerns but on the fact that he was quite effective in the world, thank you very much.
(Unless I've forgotten what he said.)
He seems to take this (nonracist) meaning from HG's use of the phrase, as I mentioned above:

It would be a belittling remark ... a suggestion that the person was a loser, working at menial things, unlikely to have a three-digit IQ.

In other news:

I would like to see some decent evidence tho, he's been banned for racist remarks, so there must be some 'evidence' out there right? Not just personal opinions.

Mmmm.
"Evidence" has its place, but I don't think one can be a mod without relying on hunches, personal reaction, and so forth.
I don't think that the mods' decision was outrageous.
I'm just not sure it was right.
But to each his own ...

 

[B_Hickboy]

Okay...

Fail? I would call your drivel, and just about everything else you post, an 'empathy fail'. This place is full of people who are abjectly unable to put themselves in others' places, and you are one of them. You have a void where you should have a heart. But then, I've said many times that being white means you don't have to think about it. You are further proof of that. [/QUOTE]

To me, although I agree with some of the things in the post above, the bolded words are a racist comment or slur. I'm not sure he meant them to be, but I think they are.[/QUOTE]
You an d
In what way are those things I said racist, in your opinion?

 

[mitchymo]

Mmmm.
"Evidence" has its place, but I don't think one can be a mod without relying on hunches, personal reaction, and so forth.
I don't think that the mods' decision was outrageous.
I'm just not sure it was right.
But to each his own ...

I agree for the most part. Its just when a hunch comes along, there must be some relatively strong argument, even if it was entirely circumstancial, which gives a suspicion. I know i assumed, as a mod, that a member here was perhaps someone from elsewhere, based on circumstancial evidence, i apologised to the member in question for having thought of them as 'villain A' for sake of not having to explain further.
I was hoping that someone could find a link that i couldn't, to an example of it having been used in a racial context elsewhere.

I don't think the decision was right based on the perspective i'm looking from. The boundaries are getting ever thinner.

 

[B_Hickboy]

I see it differently and am not really offended. I was asked to point out a comment I personally thought was racist...

Remove the word white and replace with asian, black, hispanic etc. Would you consider it a racist comment then? I would.

No, if I heard somebody say that being Black or Asian or Hispanic "means you don't have to think about it, I would consider it a damnable lie. It would reflect either malice, ignorance, or stupidity on the part of anyone who said it. People of color have to think about it EVERY DAY OF THEIR LIVES. White people don't. We go about our business and assume ownership of our privileges without giving it a second thought most of the time.

 

[B_Hickboy]

I didn't think he meant it to be racist, which is why I did not quote it directly. I was asked to so I went back and did.

Okay. Now I'm passive-aggressive self-victimizing and pathetic? Then why did you bother to reply?

Either a comment is racist or it isn't. It matters not where you live. Period.

Ah. Where do you live, by the way?

 

[B_Hickboy]

With all due respect Luka, in this case, what he said is different to what NJQT said for example. What she said, and i disagreed with her ban for that loose remark which has a racist AND anti-tyranical usage which in her case i took the latter in context of when and to whom it was said, HG's comment has no racist connection, i've searched the net trying to find its usage as a racist remark and the closest i got was a question from a poster on yahoo asking if it was or not.
The accepted meaning of the 'go get your shinebox' phrase is an utter show of disrespect, it has nothing to do with racism.

Hickboy's understanding of the word must be used in such a small circle, (he says in the culture that HG grew up, its used as a racist insult, yet where the hell is the evidence? i can't find anything beyond meaning 'utter disrespect') that it makes me wonder whether it was actually him who reported it. Sorry Hick, to clarify, i'm not pointing the finger at you certainly, i just mean that the thought crossed my mind when thinking about how rare this comment must actually be as a racist terminology because i've come up zip trying to find anything whereas in NJQT's case, there was reference of racism within 'cracker', you just happened to be the poster who actually gave any connection with the comment as racist, but somebody out there has made a report on what appears to be such a shallow ground, and its managed to convince? Tho i'm not entirely surprised

In the US, especially the South but just about anywhere in the country, to call a black male "shoeshine boy" or make references that imply that said black male shines shoes for a living are insulting in the extreme, moreso than if they were directed at a white male. I have heard, on many occasions, the term "shoeshine boy" used as a euphemism for "nigger". Call it a small circle if you will, but it has a radius of about 1300km and about 200,000,000 people live inside of it. It is a very ugly thing to say to a person of any race, but especially if it's directed toward a Black male.

 

[B_Hickboy]

I think that's true, in the sense that a white guy could make the comment to another white guy with nothing racist intended.
It would be a belittling remark ... a suggestion that the person was a loser, working at menial things, unlikely to have a three-digit IQ.
If a white guy said that to a black guy, then an overtone of racism might intrude ... because of context, not because that overtone is in the expression itself.
Who knows what HG meant?
It might have been racist, it might not have been.
I consider it a trivial throw-away line in an exchange that didn't honour either of them.

What HG meant is irrelevant. The post points up his gross insensitivity toward people of other races.

 

[D_Gunther Snotpole]

What HG meant is irrelevant. The post points up his gross insensitivity toward people of other races.

You mean, his meaning doesn't greatly determine how insensitive he's being in a particular circumstance?
I can't believe that.


Maybe I've just not noticed ... but I thought he was an equal-opportunity ego crusher.
Didn't think race particularly entered into it.

 

[B_Hickboy]

You mean, his meaning doesn't greatly determine how insensitive he's being in a particular circumstance?
I can't believe that.


Maybe I've just not noticed ... but I thought he was an equal-opportunity ego crusher.
Didn't think race particularly entered into it.

How can you tell what he meant?

 

[D_Gunther Snotpole]

How can you tell what he meant?

That's not the question.
How can anyone tell?

 

[B_Hickboy]

That's not the question.
How can anyone tell?

I can only judge an action by its outcomes, if I take the time to judge it at all.

 

[DiscoBoy]

I agree but think that the comment was not quite in incredibly bad taste. A ban goes a little too far, imo.
You had two alpha-male baboons babooning.
Slap one, slap the other, I say.
Warn one, warn the other.
Ban one if you must, but then ban the other.

Hhuck, you forget that it all comes down to whether someone is reported or not. Due to the debatably racist nature of HG's remark, any member on LPSG could've reported him. But because VB didn't also make any such remark, only HG himself could've reported VB, and I highly doubt he did that.

Only if we get out the time machine and recoup all the lost time and sanity we all had to endure in attempting to avoid the incessant bumping of the "Why Was Patchos Banned?" thread.

You read it > thought it was stupid > continued reading it > still thought it was stupid > had to finish reading it > complained that it was a waste of time and sanity (multiple times).

I think I got that right.



:rofl:

With all due respect Luka, in this case, what he said is different to what NJQT said for example. What she said, and i disagreed with her ban for that loose remark which has a racist AND anti-tyranical usage which in her case i took the latter in context of when and to whom it was said, HG's comment has no racist connection, i've searched the net trying to find its usage as a racist remark and the closest i got was a question from a poster on yahoo asking if it was or not.
The accepted meaning of the 'go get your shinebox' phrase is an utter show of disrespect, it has nothing to do with racism.

Hickboy's understanding of the word must be used in such a small circle, (he says in the culture that HG grew up, its used as a racist insult, yet where the hell is the evidence? i can't find anything beyond meaning 'utter disrespect') that it makes me wonder whether it was actually him who reported it. Sorry Hick, to clarify, i'm not pointing the finger at you certainly, i just mean that the thought crossed my mind when thinking about how rare this comment must actually be as a racist terminology because i've come up zip trying to find anything whereas in NJQT's case, there was reference of racism within 'cracker', you just happened to be the poster who actually gave any connection with the comment as racist, but somebody out there has made a report on what appears to be such a shallow ground, and its managed to convince? Tho i'm not entirely surprised

Mitchy, historically in the US (specifically the South), the "shoeshine" profession was reserved almost exclusively for black people. Within that period, disparaging remarks regarding shoeshining were very often directed at black people (much like "cotton-picking" comments), and were obviously meant to be degrading. Essentially, "go and get your shoeshine kit" implied black inferiority.

HG being a resident of the US, and a very knowledgeable person would be more than aware of the connotations of such a remark.

They (the moderating body) have acted wrongly in misinterpretation of the comment in question and not only handed down the wrong punishment but also slandered him with the "racist" label.

Why are you right, and they wrong?

Nobody has labeled him a racist. The remark was deemed racially offensive. The remark. Not the poster.

This is not a case of "oh well in a few days HG will be back and all will be well" because
damage has been done to HG's reputation because of a grudge.

Quit the hysterics, nobody's gonna give a fuck within a few months' time.

It would be a belittling remark ... a suggestion that the person was a loser, working at menial things, unlikely to have a three-digit IQ.
If a white guy said that to a black guy, then an overtone of racism might intrude ... because of context, not because that overtone is in the expression itself.

And what if such a remark were followed by something like, "I am better than you"? Because it was. Everyone is simply quoting him as saying "go and get your shoeshine kit", but that's not where the offensive remark ended. What then are people supposed to assume when one follows a controversial "movie quote" with an incredibly controversial statement. The comment, if not racist, was made in very poor taste regardless.

And no, I didn't report HG.

 

[B_Hickboy]

Damn right, and would all the fucking Libras just get the fuck out, please?

 

[D_Fiona_Farvel]

In the US, especially the South but just about anywhere in the country, to call a black male "shoeshine boy" or make references that imply that said black male shines shoes for a living are insulting in the extreme, moreso than if they were directed at a white male. I have heard, on many occasions, the term "shoeshine boy" used as a euphemism for "nigger". Call it a small circle if you will, but it has a radius of about 1300km and about 200,000,000 people live inside of it. It is a very ugly thing to say to a person of any race, but especially if it's directed toward a Black male.

Speaking from the perspective of a Black person of Southern extraction, the above is true, however, not that it matters to the administrators of the site, I do not perceive that meaning in Hazel God's post.

I do not interact often with HG, other than political debates and quinoa discussions, but I would have noticed a pattern of racist behavior or veiled hate speech. The malice isn't there, just like it was utterly lacking in the Principessa situation. I'm sorry, but I view placing HG's comment in the context above as much a distortion of his intent, as the exaggerated significance of Principessa remark.

In my view, both bans are mistakes. However, I make the point again that the disparity in punishment is telling.

I agree but think that the comment was not quite in incredibly bad taste. A ban goes a little too far, imo.
You had two alpha-male baboons babooning.
Slap one, slap the other, I say.
Warn one, warn the other.
Ban one if you must, but then ban the other.

Agreed.

 

[D_Gunther Snotpole]

Hhuck, you forget that it all comes down to whether someone is reported or not. Due to the debatably racist nature of HG's remark, any member on LPSG could've reported him. But because VB didn't also make any such remark, only HG himself could've reported VB, and I highly doubt he did that.

Mods look at the context all the time.
Sometimes, they look at threads that are developing in a bad way, without having any report at all.

And what if such a remark were followed by something like, "I am better than you"? Because it was. Everyone is simply quoting him as saying "go and get your shoeshine kit", but that's not where the offensive remark ended. What then are people supposed to assume when one follows a controversial "movie quote" with an incredibly controversial statement. The comment, if not racist, was made in very poor taste regardless.

The remark was preceded by HG's assertion of his superiority, just for the record.
He said he knew his place was several rungs above VB's
Now, that may or may not be racist.
HG could simply have been asserting that he is more intelligent, more verbal, blah blah blah ...
That would be in poor taste, but what part of their exchange wasn't?
And it was in the Politics forum, where they're still waiting for the rule of law to come to Tombstone.
j/k

Agreed

Thank you.

 

[D_Gunther Snotpole]

Damn right, and would all the fucking Libras just get the fuck out, please?

We'll take the Libras out if the Cancers will go.
Deal, Hickster?

 

[The Dragon]

This is post #97 posted by VinylBoy after a protracted Arggie Bargie by both antagonists....

##################################################

You're really a disappointment, HG. Really, how many times can you repeat the same old garbage?

Quote:HazelGod
Ignorantly repeated to infinity by HazelGod
You must be angry. You must be angry. You must be angry. Ohmigod you must be mad! Are you angry yet? I know you're angry now, right? You must be angry. You must be angry. You must be angry. Ohmigod you must be mad! Are you angry yet? I know you're angry now, right? You must be angry. You must be angry. You must be angry. Ohmigod you must be mad! Are you angry yet? I know you're angry now, right?
YAWN!
On top of that, why are you fruitlessly trying to instigate fights around here, like a punk little kid being held back by his bodyguards?

Quote:HazelGod
Also ignorantly repeated to infinity by HazelGod
What are ya gonna do about it? Or else what you ignorant bafoon? Huh? Look, I'm still talking, now what? What are ya gonna do about it? Or else what you ignorant bafoon? Huh? Look, I'm still talking, now what? What are ya gonna do about it? Or else what you ignorant bafoon? Huh? Look, I'm still talking, now what? What are ya gonna do about it? Or else what you ignorant bafoon? Huh? Look, I'm still talking, now what? What are ya gonna do about it? Or else what you ignorant bafoon? Huh? Look, I'm still talking, now what? What are ya gonna do about it? Or else what you ignorant bafoon? Huh? Look, I'm still talking, now what? What are ya gonna do about it? Or else what you ignorant bafoon? Huh? Look, I'm still talking, now what? What are ya gonna do about it? Or else what you ignorant bafoon? Huh? Look, I'm still talking, now what?
DOUBLE YAWN.
But I will answer that question because this is the answer whether you accept it or not. What's gonna happen? Nothing. You are gonna stay wherever you are, talking shit like you usually do, because that's the ONLY thing you can do. In two days, you've went from a civilized yet staunch debater to a babbling mess of political tripe, partisan hackery, Paul Reubens style childish taunts about retaliation that you know will never happen and societal bigotry. You know exactly where your place is in life and in this stupid discussion... and you know better than to cross that line. (emphasis mine)

So if your goal was for me to say something so inflammatory that I get reprimanded? Sorry, HazelTroll... that won't be happening. If you're just trying to spam your thread far down the toilet and then blame me for its derailment, that won't be happening either. Perhaps you're just sick of LPSG and want to go down in a blaze of glory, taking someone else with you? That also won't be happening either. If you're trying to just get the last word as a shallow attempt to prop yourself up after exposing more of your true self then you expected... I haven't thought about granting you such charity. Either way you put it, you're a sham, a fraud and a loudmouth with no intellectual substance. You're the one who cracked when the discussion got hot. And you were the first to insult, instigate and incite. Got anything else to say? Of course you do. But to be honest, I'll just brushing it off my shoulder every time. That's how irrelevant you've become to myself and many others around here.



The above highlighted phrase provoked the following response from HG in post #99
##########################################################

This is post #99 posted by HG:
Quote:
Originally Posted by VinylBoy http://www.lpsg.org/images/buttons/viewpost.gif
That's how irrelevant you've become to myself and many others around here.

Is is just a deluded sense of self-importance that's the wellspring for your continual habit of presuming to speak for others, or is it also that you're actually a chickenshit coward who's terrified of how loony your thoughts really look when they're put out there with only little ol' you for attribution? You go right on telling yourself that, though...perhaps one day, you might even start to believe it a little bit.


Quote:
Originally Posted by VinylBoy
What's gonna happen? Nothing.

Exactly...sound and fury. Yet with all that impotent, theatrical e-thuggery from you, you seriously accuse me of trying to pick fights? Hilarious.


Quote:
Originally Posted by VinylBoy
So if your goal was...
If you're just trying to...
Perhaps you're just...
If you're trying to just...

And you call me paranoid? That's even funnier!

There wasn't any hidden agenda behind my calling attention to your laughably ineffectual attempts at intimidation, Oswald...just the open and obvious intent of pointing out what you apparently already knew.


Quote:
Originally Posted by VinylBoy
You know exactly where your place is in life and in this stupid discussion...

No, I don't claim to know anyone's exact place in anything...but with all things being relative, I do know my place is several rungs above yours. Now go home and get yer fuckin' shine box. (emphasis mine)



Quote:
Originally Posted by Tee&A http://www.lpsg.org/images/buttons/viewpost.gif
Can anyone clarify one point for me? Let's say this fellow doesn't want a man "touching his junk" (ahem) for whatever reason and can (legally) avoid it; why does that by default make him homophobic?

Quote:
Originally Posted by VinylBoy http://www.lpsg.org/images/buttons/viewpost.gif
There's a lot of propaganda being spread by the paranoid about how TSA agents just randomly grab people and start feeling them up, as if they are all a bunch of perverts who just want to sexually assault passengers. Much of this crazy talk is currently being conjugated by a handful of misguided heterosexual males, hence the subtle cloud of homophobia that exists in the rhetoric. Ironically, none of these supposed "fighters of freedom and the Constitution" have taken the time to contemplate for one second why another straight man would yearn to put their hands in between another male passenger's legs just to play pocket pinball? Or do they think the TSA only hires gay men who can only dream about running their hands up and down the inseams of every guy they encounter? Either way, it's just not a good look.

All clear on the matter now, Tee&A?


The highlighted phrase is the ill fated one in question.

##################################################

This vitriol spilled out onto numerous threads on the same TSA topic that were running concurrently within the Politics forum...Notably this one..




http://www.lpsg.org/212530-tsa-opting-out-is-not-3.html

Please take careful note of post #31 where HazelGod addresses VinylBoys comments about HazelGods "shoeshine box" remark that were made in The above quoted posts.....
Note HazelGod clearly states that the shoeshine comment was a direct movie quote:

I'm not sure why you're so intent on making this into something more than it really is.

You asked a pretty simple question, albeit rather rudely:
Quote:
Originally Posted by VinylBoy http://www.lpsg.org/images/buttons/viewpost.gif
they first started appearing in the United States around 2006. (partisan ad hominem removed) Gee, where was all of the outrage then? (personal attacks removed)


I provided the very simple answer:
Quote:
Originally Posted by HazelGod http://www.lpsg.org/images/buttons/viewpost.gif
For the 15 thousandth time...the decision to implement the use of the virtual strip-search machines as a primary screening tool was made within the past few weeks. Prior to that decision, they were use as secondary screening mechanisms only.


From a rational viewpoint, that's the end of it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by VinylBoy http://www.lpsg.org/images/buttons/viewpost.gif
followed by your insanely bigoted comment about grabbing a shine box

You cast a derisive shot at me for not picking up on some obscure reference you claim to have made to some Japanese cartoon, but you fail to recognize a direct quote from an Oscar-winning film? Jesus tapdancing Christ. :no: (emphasis mine)

So clearly in his own words HG showed his intended meaning was a pop culture reference and it wasn't at all racially motivated.

Reading the rest of the thread the two combatants exchanged comparatively civil posts after the above exchange right up to HG's subsequent banning.

 

[MotorPT]

But then, I've said many times that being white means you don't have to think about it. You are further proof of that.

I totally see this as a racial slur. I see it as you are saying ALL white people can do what ever they want and not have a care in the world of the results. It might not be a racially demeening slur (in someway it is) but it's still a slur. Let's face it if another race had said it to a white person it'd be consider offensive. Or if a KKK member said it, it would seem to be a slogan of theirs "Cause you are white you dont have to think about it and can do what ever you want" And if you change about a couple of words in that sentence using another race it would be extremely mean "But then, I've said many times that being asian means you have to have a small dick. You are further proof of that." I'm just using a random stereotype no offense to anyone. I don't know if I'm the only one that sees it that way but I figured I'd put my 2 cents in on that line since it keeps coming back up.

 

[maxcok]

This place is awash in stupid.

 

[The Dragon]

This place is awash in stupid.

Exactly.

If the mods had left the two antagonists alone instead of giving in to the mock outrage and pseudo indignation of the mob these two gents would have settled their differences as they were in the process of doing themselves when HG was banned.
Certainly it wouldn't have been cordial but but you could see them joining forces again to at least rub Face Kings nose in the fact the McCain lost the election.