Why do people oppose the US healthcare reform?

Discussion in 'Et Cetera, Et Cetera' started by flame boy, Jan 20, 2010.

  1. flame boy

    flame boy Account Disabled

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    I'm reading up on the healthcare reform (and how the nomination of Scott Brown could/will jeopardise it). I have one question, why do so many people oppose the healthcare reform? Why would anyone not want other human beings to have some form of healthcare coverage? I honestly can't understand it and I'm hoping someone would be able to fill me in?

    This isn't really a pro/con discussion, more of an explanation thread. :smile:
     
  2. Pendlum

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    Many believe it costs too much and therefore will bankrupt our already in debt nation. Others also believe it is horribly inefficient because it is run by the government, and thus are afraid they wont receive adequate care and may be maimed/killed.

    Note, this is a very simple generalization.
     
    #2 Pendlum, Jan 20, 2010
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2010
  3. flame boy

    flame boy Account Disabled

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    Thanks Pend - it was proving damn near impossible to find a simple answer!
     
  4. D_Tim McGnaw

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    I'm shocked at the enthusiasm Americans showed for a war in Iraq, which had no role in helping them prosecute their war on terrorism and only created more enemies to fight and cost unimaginably enormous amounts of money, and the contrasting opposition to providing basic healthcare to their own compatriots.

    Spend hundreds of billions on killing foreigners for no good reason, and then get penny pinching about saving the lives of your own people, weird.
     
  5. D_Bob_Crotchitch

    D_Bob_Crotchitch New Member

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    It was a super expensive bill that didn't really reform healthcare. It made insurance coverage available, and required employers who might not be able to afford it to provide it. The employer would either lay off workers or cut back their hours to keep from providing it.
    True reform should begin with requiring non-profit hospitals to stop making unnecessary renovations, and spend the money on indigent care.
    It would require all health care providers to charge cash paying customers the negotiated rate for services that they give insurance companies.
    Drugs should be at the same low cost that they are sold for in Canada.
    More free clinics should be opened in larger cities. There used to be one in the city where I grew it. It was state/county funded.
    Drug companies should be allowed to supply lots of free samples to doctors who often times give them to poor patients. The feds stopped that claiming it was bribery. I used to be one of those recipients.
    VA hospitals that are fully staffed and only partially full could be used for indigent care. The tax payer is funding those institutions. There was just such a proposal in one state, and veterans groups protested against it.
    People should be able to shop for health insurance across state lines. It would put enormous pressure on insurance companies to cut their rates.
    Those are just a few of the changes that should be made.
    Congress just never seems to get it. They approach a problem about which the nation is concerned, and do it in a way the nation absolutely hates. People are tired of government intrustion into their lives. They are tired of higher taxes, and they are tired of irresponsible government spending.
    That bank bailout that didn't limit executive compensation has the public in an uproar. It isn't going away any time soon.
     
  6. Pendlum

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    9/11 left a bitter taste in a lot of people's mouth's, but I can't say for sure this is a large reason many supported it. I believe it is, I think many felt retaliation as necessary, and never understood how the terrorist network worked. So the fact that they weren't from Iraq (I believe they weren't, right?) didn't really matter to many. I think a lot of people lumped together "The Middle East" and felt that anywhere was good enough. A message to show how strong we are, United We Stand, and all that nice fan fare.
     
  7. SpeedoMike

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    ...because the legislators discussed and wrote it behind closed doors, didn't allow Republicans to participate in discussions, and the cost figures are pure fiction. there's lots more but I'll stop with this.
     
  8. tripod

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    People are against helping others due to a simple lack of compassion and empathy. Is there any mystery in that? Most humans have a bizarre need for division and separation, which is proving to be mankind's ultimate downfall.
     
  9. B_theOtherJJ

    B_theOtherJJ New Member

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    Its not the general public that is opposed, its sectors of the govt. What you must remember is that Healthcare is big business for physicians and pharmaceutical companies. Everyone has their hand in the till, and that is what drives the costs up. Increased Healthcare costs would decrease profits for them. Bottom line, its about GREED. However, I believe the american people deserve a plan that benefits everyone. I dont see that happening anytime soon. Basically the Healthcare issue was a major factor in Obama's victory. Can he make good on a promise ???? Not really sure, I think he bit off more than he could chew. The promises made seem to be more about his winning than serving the public.
     
  10. luka82

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    I think jj has a fair point!!!!:):):):)
     
  11. D_Bob_Crotchitch

    D_Bob_Crotchitch New Member

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    A major factor in Obama's victory? He was an unknown, not much of a record to attack, and it was an anti-war, anti-recession vote. More than one person has been elected to office by voters not voting for them but voting against someone else. Leaders in both parties need to sit up and take notice. The general public at large is sick of all their butts.
     
  12. HazelGod

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    This is the crux of the matter that foreign members should understand...the interests of the people of the USA are no longer represented by our government.
     
  13. D_Tim McGnaw

    D_Tim McGnaw Account Disabled

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    Since when HazelGod ? I mean when did the USA become a dictatorship ? :wink:
     
  14. Flashy

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    because it is a terrible, cobbled together bill, that costs a fortune.

    I am strongly pro-uni-healthcare and reform but it must be done right, considering just how much it affects everyone and the economy. it cannot afford to be done poorly in our current condition.

    this is not something simple like effecting 150,000 people in a couple of districts...this will have an impact on our nation for the next century...it cannot be done in a fly by the seat of your pants, ram it through against the people's will fashion. It must be studied, it must be experimented with in pilot programs, its costs must be assessed, it must have real input from citizens addressing their concerns, and it *MUST* be negotiated and debated in public...this backroom dealing BS must end.

    the healthcare industry must learn that it is going to have to make some big sacrifices, but, the far left is going to have to learn it as well, along with the far right.

    neither the far left or the far right solution is feasible...in fact, both are totally idiotic....either leave people to die, or completely takeover the whole system.

    both are the retarded brainchildren of stupid demagogues.
     
  15. gymfresh

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    In one word? Racism. It's more complex than that, including selfishness and protectiveness, but at the end of the day many Americans really have trouble seeing themselves in their fellow citizens' shoes. As I've said before, "American society" is a myth... we're 300 million people occupying the same piece of land, fighting for our own self interests and who don't like each other very much. At times, we're like hoboes rummaging through the same rubbish bin; we tolerate each other only after we're satisfied we've got the biggest scrap of chicken for ourselves. Don't really care what the other fella finds, if anything.

    But racism underlies the inability to see your own family in your neighbor's plight. US politicians are masters at playing people off each other by using fear of people who are not like you trying to get some of what you've got "without earning it". Yup, they really think healthcare has to be earned.

    It's true there are entrenched business interests here like nowhere else in the world, but if the public and political will were there, fundamental healthcare reform could be enacted overnight.
     
  16. NotSoDumb_Blonde

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    LOL! oohhhhh they wrote and discussed it without the Republicans??? Geesh, what does that have to do with it? It has to pass the house and senate, then they can read it, and even....gasp! ....vote on it.

    Sorry, but basically that's crap. It's such a cop out to say something like that. Mostly, the American public is not FOR insurance/health reform because they don't understand it. The issues are complicated, and the media distills them to the two second spots that depending on the station has it's own slant further muddying the waters.

    All legislation is created somewhere, to blame the lack of enthusiasm for the health reform on the people writing it is just stupid. Find a real argument. Obama is doing his best -- shit the guy has to clean up the crap from the past 8 years of idiocy, it's going to take a while.

    Basically he is trying with the health reform to get everyone proper health care, provide fair rates, insure that the elderly are cared for properly and that insurance companies don't rob us blind anymore. It's much more complex even than that, but hey, at least he's trying. And, now, with the win in Boston, who knows what will happen? The rich get richer, that's a given, though.
     
  17. BOOPO2

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    I think everyone should have health care. but i think everyone should pay for their own coverage. We already pay for the lazy peoples food stamps ,energy assistance,rent assistance,heat assistance,electric assistance,etc..
    when is enough enough?
     
  18. tripod

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    Are there no prisons?

    Are there no workhouses?
     
  19. B_jeepguy2

    B_jeepguy2 New Member

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    Yep, you hit the nail on the head dude! Unlike Canada or most countries in Europe that have socialized medicine the United States has a huge population of people who either do no work or do only menial work and are basicly supported by the Federal government through wellfare, food stamps, etc. and pay little or no taxes...and many are ethnic minorities.

    Ever since the New Deal these people have been supported by the tax dollars of the Americans who actually work. Most middle class and upper middle class Americans regardless of their own race do not have much use for this segment population. They avoid the inner city slums where they live and just wish the hell they would go away...but they are not going away, their population is increasing faster than the middle and upper classes, who pay most of the taxes in America.

    On top of that we have a flood of immigrants streaming in across our southern border and from other parts of the world. For the most part these are not educated people who are going to get a job making six figures in America, pay a lot of taxes and contribute to American society. Most will probably end up on the dole living off the American taxpayer whether or not they ever become citizens.

    Most Americans who work and pay taxes are getting fed up with the status quo in this country and eventually there is going to be a backlash...how big of a backlash remains to be seen. Eventually people are going to say ENOUGH is ENOUGH and I think that is what you are starting to see with the strong opposition to healthcare reform. Most Americans DO NOT want to fork over more taxes to support people who don't work, and they DAMN SURE don't want to have to pay taxes on the "Cadillac" health care plan that they get with their job to pay for someone else to have health care.

    They also do not want the government telling them what doctors and hospitals to go to either. There are some inner city hospitals in this country that have such large numbers of minority patients that you would think you were in some third world country. People with medical insurance do not go to these hospitals and they damn sure don't want the people who do coming to their hospital out in the suberbs, and they are afraid that just might happen if healthcare reform succeeds.
     
    #19 B_jeepguy2, Jan 20, 2010
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2010
  20. B_starinvestor

    B_starinvestor New Member

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    First off - every single person in Massachusetts already has health insurance. So that was a poor battleground for the election last night for the democrats. Why would Mass. folk vote in a way that would make their insurance more expensive and less effective?

    No way in hell.

    But beyond that, as a few posters have pointed out - the bill just sucks. It isn't an improvement. We'd be replacing a poor system with an even worse system - and a huge cost.

    The thing absolutely sucks and it is embarrassing that 500 some lawyers can't create a health bill that is an improvement on our current crippled system.

    I will also add that Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi are major stumbling blocks for building consensus among the American people. Both are partisan windbags that immediately raise suspicion in any thinking American in terms of their respective agendas and proposed legislation.

    But to answer the question in the OP - I don't know many people that oppose healthcare reform. But the majority of our citizens oppose this bill.
     
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