Why do people oppose the US healthcare reform?

Incocknito

Sexy Member
Joined
Jan 11, 2009
Posts
2,480
Media
0
Likes
68
Points
133
Location
La monde
Sexuality
100% Straight, 0% Gay
Gender
Male
I'm reading up on the healthcare reform (and how the nomination of Scott Brown could/will jeopardise it). I have one question, why do so many people oppose the healthcare reform? Why would anyone not want other human beings to have some form of healthcare coverage? I honestly can't understand it and I'm hoping someone would be able to fill me in?

This isn't really a pro/con discussion, more of an explanation thread. :smile:

I think its crazy as well. Also the way they slate our (UK) NHS when recently ours was found to be the best NHS (National Health Service) in the world.

I saw one comment from an American woman saying "we don't want the government interfering in our lives" which I can see has some validity since no one wants the "Nanny State".

But I hardly see it as a bad thing / invasion of privacy / taking away of human rights / whatever else people usually say about government policy.

I think there was a crossroads in American History where they would become socialists or individualists. Maybe it was propaganda but whatever the reason Americans are extremely against socialism. It's an "every man for himself" mentality.

It's similar to the circumcision issue. To almost every other country in the world it's preposterous and unfathomable. "Only in America" comes to mind.

And not every person without healthcare is an immigrant. Many people simply cannot afford it and/or their employers do not provide it.
 

B_theOtherJJ

Expert Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2007
Posts
2,890
Media
0
Likes
104
Points
183
Location
Queens NY
Sexuality
100% Gay, 0% Straight
Gender
Male
I think everyone should have health care. but i think everyone should pay for their own coverage. We already pay for the lazy peoples food stamps ,energy assistance,rent assistance,heat assistance,electric assistance,etc..
when is enough enough?


I dont think people are opposed to paying for their healthcare. What they ARE opposed to is the price gouging, which in reality is beyond the working publics reach. Lets face it, the RICH can afford it so they aint even in the picture. The working class and poor at the ones affected, and often opt not to have health insurance in lieu of having to pay rent and buy food. And lord help you if you need drugs. Why should ANY presecription cost hundreds of dollars? Its insane and unaffordable.
 

SilverTrain

Legendary Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2008
Posts
4,623
Media
82
Likes
1,329
Points
333
Location
USA
Sexuality
No Response
Gender
Male
LOL! oohhhhh they wrote and discussed it without the Republicans??? Geesh, what does that have to do with it? It has to pass the house and senate, then they can read it, and even....gasp! ....vote on it.

Sorry, but basically that's crap. It's such a cop out to say something like that. Mostly, the American public is not FOR insurance/health reform because they don't understand it. The issues are complicated, and the media distills them to the two second spots that depending on the station has it's own slant further muddying the waters.

All legislation is created somewhere, to blame the lack of enthusiasm for the health reform on the people writing it is just stupid. Find a real argument. Obama is doing his best -- shit the guy has to clean up the crap from the past 8 years of idiocy, it's going to take a while.

Basically he is trying with the health reform to get everyone proper health care, provide fair rates, insure that the elderly are cared for properly and that insurance companies don't rob us blind anymore. It's much more complex even than that, but hey, at least he's trying. And, now, with the win in Boston, who knows what will happen? The rich get richer, that's a given, though.

Will you marry me?
 
Joined
Feb 2, 2008
Posts
3,028
Media
0
Likes
30
Points
123

This is the crux of the matter that foreign members should understand...the interests of the people of the USA are no longer represented by our government.

We have not been properly represented for quite some time now. It was never just one administration's fault, it is OUR fault for allowing it to happen.

When Bush left the White House the day Obama was sworn in and the masses of people were waving good riddance and flipping him off I thought to myself: We are just as much to blame for not revolting against corrupt leadership, an antiquated voting system (Florida) and the heavily lined pockets who claim to represent the best interests of the people.

Bush was allowed to do his worst.

because it is a terrible, cobbled together bill, that costs a fortune.

I am strongly pro-uni-healthcare and reform but it must be done right, considering just how much it affects everyone and the economy. it cannot afford to be done poorly in our current condition.

this is not something simple like effecting 150,000 people in a couple of districts...this will have an impact on our nation for the next century...it cannot be done in a fly by the seat of your pants, ram it through against the people's will fashion. It must be studied, it must be experimented with in pilot programs, its costs must be assessed, it must have real input from citizens addressing their concerns, and it *MUST* be negotiated and debated in public...this backroom dealing BS must end.

the healthcare industry must learn that it is going to have to make some big sacrifices, but, the far left is going to have to learn it as well, along with the far right.

neither the far left or the far right solution is feasible...in fact, both are totally idiotic....either leave people to die, or completely takeover the whole system.

both are the retarded brainchildren of stupid demagogues.

Of course, those in power will throw together a casserole of sorts made from inexpensive cuts of meats and pass it off as a feast in the feeble attempt to appease the American public's appetite for change. This is not their best.

They are still acting within the boundaries allowed by those whose pockets will be effected by change. If this were not the case, there would be clear, concise information offered to us and supported by some common sense. We know it is a mess and we know it is going to be difficult and we KNOW it will cost money. Does it always have to look like a recipe for disaster?
 

SilverTrain

Legendary Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2008
Posts
4,623
Media
82
Likes
1,329
Points
333
Location
USA
Sexuality
No Response
Gender
Male
because it is a terrible, cobbled together bill, that costs a fortune.

I am strongly pro-uni-healthcare and reform but it must be done right, considering just how much it affects everyone and the economy. it cannot afford to be done poorly in our current condition.

this is not something simple like effecting 150,000 people in a couple of districts...this will have an impact on our nation for the next century...it cannot be done in a fly by the seat of your pants, ram it through against the people's will fashion. It must be studied, it must be experimented with in pilot programs, its costs must be assessed, it must have real input from citizens addressing their concerns, and it *MUST* be negotiated and debated in public...this backroom dealing BS must end.

So, nothing gets done. Again. For decades.

Thanks for posting the big-business strategy for sabotoging health care reform:

"It's not perfect, so don't you dare let it pass."
 

D_Tim McGnaw

Account Disabled
Joined
Aug 30, 2009
Posts
5,420
Media
0
Likes
111
Points
133
Yep, you hit the nail on the head dude! Unlike Canada or most countries in Europe that have socialized medicine the United States has a huge population of people who either do no work or do only menial work and are basicly supported by the Federal government through wellfare, food stamps, etc. and pay little or no taxes...and many are ethnic minorities.

Ever since the New Deal these people have been supported by the tax dollars of the Americans who actually work. Most middle class and upper middle class Americans regardless of their own race do not have much use for this segment population. They avoid the inner city slums where they live and just wish the hell they would go away...but they are not going away, their population is increasing faster than the middle and upper classes, who pay most of the taxes in America.

On top of that we have a flood of immigrants streaming in across our southern border and from other parts of the world. For the most part these are not educated people who are going to get a job making six figures in America, pay a lot of taxes and contribute to American society. Most will probably end up on the dole living off the American taxpayer whether or not they ever become citizens.

Most Americans who work and pay taxes are getting fed up with the status quo in this country and eventually there is going to be a backlash...how big of a backlash remains to be seen. Eventually people are going to say ENOUGH is ENOUGH and I think that is what you are starting to see with the strong opposition to healthcare reform. Most Americans DO NOT want to fork over more taxes to support people who don't work, and they DAMN SURE don't want to have to pay taxes on the "Cadillac" health care plan that they get with their job to pay for someone else to have health care.

They also do not want the government telling them what doctors and hospitals to go to either. There are some inner city hospitals in this country that have such large numbers of minority patients that you would think you were in some third world country. People with medical insurance do not go to these hospitals and they damn sure don't want the people who do coming to their hospital out in the suberbs, and they are afraid that just might happen if healthcare reform succeeds.




I'm sorry but I find this incredibly depressing and an indictment of U.S. society and culture.

To write millions of your own people off, and to wish they would simply disappear because you don't have the compassion or concern to actually see if cooperation and real engagement with those who are disadvantaged might begin to solve some of the problems is shocking.

In the nineteenth century in Europe rapid growth and industrialisation created vast numbers of urban poor living in abject conditions and utter deprivation. The first reaction was to simply wish they would disappear, however it soon became clear that the Haves and Havenots simply could not exist without one another. The urban poor existed as a condition of capitalist industrial economics. There would be working poor, and there would be unemployed or invalid poor, the cost of economic growth and prosperity for some would be the disadvantage and exclusion of others.

In Europe we realised that if our economic future was capitalist then that would have to be tempered by social policy which compensated those who's disadvantage was the by-product of other's wealth.

Many western European states now operate under this compromise. It may be imperfect, and it may still be morally questionable but it is better than a society without conscience. If the USA can have the wealthiest people on earth among its citizens then it should be able to compensate it's poorest citizens for the misery that capitalist economics creates.

Good health is a basic necessity of life, along with food, water and decent housing. What one's race, ethnic or national origin, or socioeconomic class is should be irrelevant to the ability to be able to access these basics of life. I work hard, I pay taxes, I am happy for those taxes to be spent in helping others to have the most basic and most vital necessities of life regardless of who they are or how they come to be in need of my taxes, I have a conscience and I can empathise. Were I to find myself at the bottom of the ladder for whatever reason I would be glad if someone else had a conscience and some empathy.
 
Last edited:

b.c.

Worshipped Member
Verified
Gold
Joined
Nov 7, 2005
Posts
20,540
Media
0
Likes
21,784
Points
468
Location
at home
Verification
View
Gender
Male
I'm sorry but I find this incredibly depressing and an indictment of U.S. society and culture.

To write millions of your own people off, and to wish they would simply disappear because you don't have the compassion or concern to actually see if cooperation and real engagement with those who are disadvantaged might begin to solve some of the problems is shocking.

In the nineteenth century in Europe rapid growth and industrialisation created vast numbers of urban poor living in abject conditions and utter deprivation. The first reaction was to simply wish they would disappear, however it soon became clear that the Haves and Havenots simply could not exist without one another. The urban poor existed as a condition of capitalist industrial economics. There would be working poor, and there would be unemployed or invalid poor, the cost of economic growth and prosperity for some would be the disadvantage and exclusion of others.

In Europe we realised that if our economic future was capitalist then that would have to be tempered by social policy which compensated those who's disadvantage was the by-product of other's wealth.

Many western European states now operate under this compromise. It may be imperfect, and it may still be morally questionable but it is better than a society without conscience. If the USA can have the wealthiest people on earth among its citizens then it should be able to compensate it's poorest citizens for the misery that capitalist economics creates.

Good health is a basic necessity of life, along with food, water and decent housing. What one's race, ethnic or national origin, or socioeconomic class is should be irrelevant to the ability to be able to access these basics of life. I work hard, I pay taxes, I am happy for those taxes to be spent in helping others to have the most basic and most vital necessities of life regardless of who they are or how they come to be in need of my taxes, I have a conscience and I can empathise. Were I to find myself at the bottom of the ladder for whatever reason I would be glad if someone else had a conscience and some empathy.

Yes, to a casual observer this would seem a no-brainer, but the fact is there are many here in the U.S. who would even knowingly cut off their own noses...

Welcome to the real world, my friend.
 

Flashy

Sexy Member
Joined
Feb 27, 2007
Posts
7,901
Media
0
Likes
27
Points
183
Location
at home
Sexuality
100% Straight, 0% Gay
Gender
Male
So, nothing gets done. Again. For decades.

Thanks for posting the big-business strategy for sabotoging health care reform:

"It's not perfect, so don't you dare let it pass."

on the contrary...nowhere did i say that.

i said we should immediately start some pilot programs.
i said this must be studied going forward.
i said that "the healthcare industry must learn that it is going to have to make some big sacrifices," (meaning the end to their monopoly exemption, the fact that we will lower restrictions against foreign drugmakers competing with them, and generic drug manufacturers, and we will impose price controls on certain sectors of the health care industry)

you may consider that a "big business strategy for sabotaging health care" but it isn't....considering i put the biggest business involved in health care...the health care and insurance companies, directly in the crossfire.

"nothing gets done for decades"? because you scrap a bad bill, and start over *IMMEDIATELY* taking a step by step approach?

sorry, that is not what i said at all.

you want my plans? i have spelled it out before and i will do it again now in the absence of a decent plan from you or anyone else.


phase 1. raising funds
1. immediately remove anti-trust exemptions for the health care industry.
2. immediately remove all protections against foreign and generic drug suppliers. let the drug companies compete to make their drugs more affordable.
3. immediately raise taxes 20% on: cigarettes, alcohol, soda, and all foods that contain high levels of transfats.
4. immediately legalize marijuana and tax it at a 25% rate. (taxation receipts from the new business nationally will skyrocket)
5. immediately legalize large scale industrial hemp production. (same as above)
6. raise tax rates on people *ONLY* in the top tax rate, back to Clinton era levels: from 33% and 35% current to 36% and 39.6% currently.

phase 2. *FULLY* funded pilot, implementation, infrastructure, education and investment phase

1. we simply do not have the infrastructure, or number of practitioners necessary to handle 40 million new people in the health care system. Not even close. so you will have 40 million new insured people, with no doctor to see and no place to go.

people must begin training, infrastructure must be invested in. plans for expansion and hiring must be made.

2. take 2 million of the most needy people...organize a bidding by insurance companies, to offer a comprehensive plan to this first group of people, the cost of which, in value per person per annum, does not exceed $500. that is a maximum cost of 12 billion dollars....the contract would be exclusive. the company that offered the best plan, would be required to lock in a rate, that did not advance beyond the rate of the inflation.

in return for the exclusive contract, said insurance company, would receive certain beneficial tax incentives, to be determined via negotiation, in order to guarantee that the profit margins can still be met to the shareholders to insure that price increases are not necessary. each of these contracts, would last a certain set period...like a health annuity, that the government would pay, in full, in the beginning of the plan and/or in increments, throughout the life of the enrollee.

this would ensure that it does not become the mess that medicaire has become costwise in terms of future insolvency.

3. immediately begin construction of "neigborhood free clinics" for minor checkups and routine procedures that can be done by less skilled but learning medical practitioners, such as mammogram screening, basic eyesight and health practitioning. to fund these clinics, people interested in the medical field, will be given money to go to med school, in return for serving internships in these clinics as they learn, supervised, of course by the proper staff...who can be full time, from a teaching school, or brought in as a consultant on a rotational basis.

this will allow basic, low cost checkups, for the poor at a reasonable fee of perhaps $15 per a session. the fees will allow for the running of, and basic maintenance of the clinics, and will cover the employment of those not in the medical field, but who will be employed there, such as secretarial and janitorial and maintenance staff.

4. Immediate investment in government owned surgical hospitals for more serious needs. people who have gone through medical school on the government's dime, must serve an apprenticeship and a certain period of years in these hospitals after graduating from medical school...once they are done with that time period, during which they will receive a salary, they can choose where to go (private practice, another hospital, or remain etc.)

the surgical and specialist hospitals, like the smaller free clinics, can be run for the same smaller fees and can deal with more routine operations and emergency room care, which are not as expensive as more difficult surgeries with longer recoveries or illness treatments such as chemo, etc.


phase 3
- extension of pilot programs, specialist hospitals and neighborhood clinics.

1. it would take perhaps 2 years to see how the small clinics and pilot programs with the insurance companies were working. to see the education and training of the first two years worth of medical trainees who are in college or special training (like nursing programs or medical technicians programs)

2. the larger hospitals would still be under construction obviously, but the first year programs with the insurance companies and neighborhood clinics would give a good idea as to what was working and what was not.

3. tweak the insurance programs to insure they are running smoothly.
4. continue the recruitment and training of more practitioners

phase 4
1. expand the pilot insurance programs to the next and larger wave of enrollees in shorter phases. (this would continue then by year, as the money began flowing in to the system through the tax revenues etc.)
2. complete the surgical and urgent care hospitals...by this time, about 3-4 years, the first group of medical students, internists, residents, nurses etc. etc. will be ready to take up their positions in the larger hospitals...not to mention, these hospitals will all need staff in a variety of different non-medical positions (cafeteria, janitorial, maintenance, secretarial, administrative etc.)
3. begin expansion of the entire system.
4. during this time, the drug companies, will of course also be competing with foreign and generic drug makers, lowering the costs of prescription drugs across the board, in theory.






*THAT* is a plan, my friend....obviously in its most basic form.

but i have seen nothing else on this site, other than a lot of yelling about those mean insurance agencies, and the mean republicans, and the rich people, and the corporations...

you can shake your fists at the sky, but until you come up with a better plan than i have proposed, my way remains far more intelligent, far better planned, far easier to pay for, considering at the moment we have *NO* money, and you want to go from zero to 60 in .1 seconds...

there is a reason that humans cannot accelerate quicker than a certain speed...they would break their necks from G-Forces...same principle with this super new system that you want to start in a big poof of smoke...except the neck being broken would be our economy and our health system.

i want to go step by step, to create a smart, financed, prudent, healthy, growing, cost effective, universal health care system

some of you folks seem to just want to drop a massive bomb and see what happens...

i thought you were against the type of "shoot first ask questions later" approach top financial policy that the republicans espouse?

this is the exact same thing...with the health care system...and it is an extremely bad idea.


----
I don't demand perfection...we will never get that...

that does not mean you rush helter skelter into a totally irresponsible, wasteful, outrageously slapdash situation without a competent plan that takes in to account that you build a skyscraper floor by floor.
you build the foundation, you build the structure, you make sure you have the money to complete the project, you then do the wiring, and the outside, then you do everything else.

you don't just throw a bunch of glass, concrete, steel, wire and bricks into a large hole, along with all the money that you have not even raised yet, and say "let's go!"

but this, should be your last line if you wanted it to be accurate:

"It's an awful mess, so don't you dare let it pass."
 

uncutguy37

Legendary Member
Joined
Dec 8, 2007
Posts
361
Media
20
Likes
2,091
Points
498
Location
Ohio
Gender
Male
Most people do want healthcare reform, but not this, this bill would still leave millions of people without heathcare and would break the gov.
A bill could have been written that would reform healthcare and lower costs, but thats not what they did, they only wanted to grow gov. Two things would have made a huge differance in this bill, Tort reform, and letting people buy ins. across state lines, but the Dems refused to let the Republicans have any say at all. Thats also part of the problem, Obama ran on transparency and bi-partisanship, and there has been none of that, I myself remember him saying over and over he would put the hearings on C-span, instead they were conducted behind closed doors with a handfull of Dems, he also used taxpayer dollars to bribe Senators and unions to support the bill, if this bill is so good, why does he have to bribe his own party to vote for it? before someone says "thats how things are done in Washington" he ran on change and said he would stop things like that, he also said no more ear-marks, he has signed over 9000 ear-marks to date. He conned millions of people into voting for him who thought he would really try to clean up Washington. I regret voting for him, and will not make the same mistake again.
 

D_Bob_Crotchitch

Expert Member
Joined
Jun 11, 2006
Posts
8,252
Media
0
Likes
113
Points
193
It still amazes me how many people run their mouths and don't even have a clue as to what they are talking about. In this case I am talking to peeps making comments about the economy. I wish OBAMA could fix it but he can't. The damage is done. How many of you have been following it since the late 80s or early 90s? How many of you contacted your Representatives and opposed NAFTA and the trade agreement with China? How many of you can't wait to run down and buy cheap imports because your main hobby is shopping?
Bush was an idiot but the stock market started losing steam in March of 2000. He wasn't even elected yet. The housing and stock bubbles began with Greenspan's irresponsibly low interest policies. Last year, Congress let him have it. He said I was mistaken, and peeps are still trying to blame anybody but him and themselves. Look in the mirror before you flap your lips.
 
Last edited:

D_Tim McGnaw

Account Disabled
Joined
Aug 30, 2009
Posts
5,420
Media
0
Likes
111
Points
133
Yes, to a casual observer this would seem a no-brainer, but the fact is there are many here in the U.S. who would even knowingly cut off their own noses...

Welcome to the real world, my friend.


Sorry but what world did you think I lived in ? Or is western Europe a fantasy land of fairies and elves ?
 

austinstace

Just Browsing
Joined
Feb 19, 2009
Posts
4
Media
0
Likes
0
Points
86
Location
Round Rock, TX north of Austin
Sexuality
99% Gay, 1% Straight
Gender
Male
The working class and unemployed/underemployed are looked down on by those in the working class and above. In the US, we pay a very hefty price for cheap goods. To keep costs so low, companies don't pay the employees well enough to live anything but a meager existence. Over the past 70 years, a smaller percentage of the working class make a livable wage while a minutely small percentage gain huge amounts of wealth that can't be spent in a lifetime. Every time the economy takes a dive, labor gives up pension plans, retirement contributions, insurance benefits, etc. to keep the corporations from failing. Very seldom is any kind of sacrifice made at the top.

I keep hearing the argument that healthcare reform is a giveaway entitlement program. The working class is doing there part - working. They are not getting paid enough to afford healthcare in it's current form. There's already an invisible tax in low wages and poor benefit plans.

The truth is that everyone is scared they will have to pay for something. They want a lot of services - roads, education, protection, retirement, elder care, consumer protection - without ponying up a dime to pay for it.

Healthcare in the US should be reformed even if it does cost money. Rather than looking at healthcare to pay for itself, how about looking at the less important issues that recieve billions in funding each year. If they aren't more important than healthcare, cut them.

We have continued down the road of not educating our youth, not allowing outmoded businesses to fail, not living a healthy lifestyle, and borrowing from the future to pay for unnecessary programs. We have lost the support of most of our allies and are on the verge of being a mediocre country instead of the leader we could be.

Until the average US citizen is no longer ambivolent towards our current state of affairs, we will not hold our representatives accountable. We will wait 4 more years, 8 more years, however many terms and elections pass thinking that our "dot" next to a candidate's name will make the change. We need to be actively researching to find facts to support our views and discredit political "spin" and then vote. After we vote, we need to hound our elected officials until they do what we need and want.

Either we act or we cede our economic and diplomatic power.
 

Deno

Cherished Member
Joined
Apr 19, 2006
Posts
4,630
Media
1
Likes
439
Points
303
Sexuality
No Response
I'm oppose to anything that will raise my payroll deductions by 10 percent and not know where the money is going. Does anyone know if min wage employees will have to pay this 10 percent for coverage.
 
7

798686

Guest
But to answer the question in the OP - I don't know many people that oppose healthcare reform. But the majority of our citizens oppose this bill.
Sounds fair enough (dislike of the bill, I mean). :smile:

This is the crux of the matter that foreign members should understand...the interests of the people of the USA are no longer represented by our government.
Sounds like the UK. :redface:
 

D_Andreas Sukov

Account Disabled
Joined
Oct 6, 2008
Posts
2,861
Media
0
Likes
11
Points
123
I think what us Johnny Foreigners need to understand is that the US system is vastly different from ours. From my own basic A-level Politics understanding, Pharmacuetical (sp?) companies bankroll many politicians election campiagns. Considering politicians have to fund their own campaigns, they wouldnt bite the hand that feeds would they. I remember readin one quote from a Senator or a Representative saying they spent 4-5 hours of their day calling around business for backing in their next campaign. We can talk about healthcare reform, but the whole damn system needs reform.


I think the conservative attack on our NHS was just sad, and im mad our Government did nothing more then set up a sad group called we love our NHS in reply. It made us look like pansies, and considering we have our soldiers dying for American inperialism i think we should of reminded them of that.

Also we should understand that universal healthcare is a socialist policy. Many 'Mericuns have been Brainwashed to think all forms of communism and socialism are bad. By this, i mean the special ones that brother is their aunt. In the UK, we have grown up with it and see it as a standard. If the US working class and unemployed were more organised they could get this but lets face it, with politicians at the trough and an apathetic working class what do the companies have to fear?

Ill finish as i started, If this is ever going to happen, the whole system needs to change. Its a sad time when the citizens of a country going all over spreading democracy dont even know what it is....
 

b.c.

Worshipped Member
Verified
Gold
Joined
Nov 7, 2005
Posts
20,540
Media
0
Likes
21,784
Points
468
Location
at home
Verification
View
Gender
Male
Sorry but what world did you think I lived in ? Or is western Europe a fantasy land of fairies and elves ?

No slight intended, thought it would have been more accurate, perhaps, to say "welcome to our reality" as you did express some degree of incredulity as to the circumstances ("shocking" I believe you said).
 

gymfresh

Expert Member
Verified
Gold
Joined
Jan 8, 2008
Posts
1,633
Media
20
Likes
157
Points
383
Location
Rodinia
Verification
View
Sexuality
99% Gay, 1% Straight
Gender
Male
Any country that prides itself on free education for all should also make it a primary goal to provide free basic healthcare for all. It's a fundamental point of even being a society, along with reliable and professional police and fire protection. These are why people come together, work hard, and pay taxes for the "common wealth". Once the plank of basic services is in place, then folks can individually reach for the stars. Some will get rich, some will get by, but all will have the same basic services (which they're free to supplement any way they like, on their own dime) to ensure an educated, healthy and safe populace.

I think Flashy's summary is superb. His point is well-taken that as much as universal healthcare appeals to many, it's impractical in the US in the immediate future. Instead, we need to enact some fair, basic groundrules around our present for-profit system -- those who want to continue to play the game can stay and adapt, and the rest of the players can leave. But the cart always has to precede the horse.

Those who mentioned that the issue is the abominable porkbarrel monster currently being kneaded by the Senate and House of Representatives have a good point. Congress appears poised to actually craft healthcare reform that no one likes, neither liberals nor conservatives. And it's not disliked because it's middle-of-the-road, but because it's distorted and a grotesque give-away.

I hope Congress and the White House together get the spine to craft something that builds on the singleminded goal of viewing the United States of America as one risk pool. None of this high-risk pool crap. The only way it works fairly and economically is one basic package for all, one premium, free from any connection to employment. Simply by virtue of being a resident of the USA.

There's no shortage of fantastic healthcare role models out there, including Switzerland's which is almost entirely delivered by the private-sector. But again, their key to success is one national risk pool.