Why Do Some Straight Guys Get Turned On By Transsexuals?
- Thread starter theyaom
- Start date
It wouldn't put YOU off. But those of us who WOULD be put off by this....we're what? Ignorant? "Close minded", "intolerant"?
Getting back to the matter of the OP...
I do understand now that there's a whole league of folks out there that feel the term "straight" means everything. Literally everything. It means men who exclusively sleep with women, men who occasionally sleep with men, men who don't care which gender they sleep with....it's allllll considered straight to some people. I'm not one of those folks. Straight is a term I apply to heterosexual people. Now, you may be asking yourself "why repeat all of this?" Well, because by YOUR definition...all someone needs to do is "feel" like a woman, and to you...that makes that person a woman. And with that logic, you pander to that men fucking men and still calling themselves straight bullshit. Sorry, can't do it...
mistabobdobalina
Sexy Member
You're attracted to what you're attracted to. I made no suggestion that you should find anyone attractive, transgender or otherwise.
What I said is that insistence that transgender women are actually men, that view is ignorant, close minded, and intolerant.
You oversimplify the whole concept of gender identity, but to oversimplify my answer, yes. If someone genuinely self identifies as female, then I accept them as that (regardless of their physical anatomy). Chaz bono... dude.
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There is a difference between cross dressing and transexual. I don't mind having a perv at Mia Isabella vids now and then
Well shit got really real in this thread.
And by that i mean it got interesting.
And interesting, i don't mean the useless name calling and the use of ignorant as an insult. Interesting because overall it asks the question of what is masculinity. What makes a person a man vs...........
And by that i mean it got interesting.
And interesting, i don't mean the useless name calling and the use of ignorant as an insult. Interesting because overall it asks the question of what is masculinity. What makes a person a man vs...........
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There's a large difference between accepting someone as female, being attracted to them and then having sex with them. Just sayin.
mistabobdobalina
Sexy Member
All attraction is personal. I've never said nor suggested that someone is prejudiced for not being attracted to a specific individual, nor even a group of individuals. This was something NC_BBC attributed to me, but I never said it. I think he confused something I said about my own individual preferences and applied it broadly as a view I held about how everyone should feel.
Let's say for sake of argument that someone doesn't find Asian women physically attractive. I don't think that's racist, that's just personal preference. Similarly, I don't think someone is prejudiced against transgender individuals for simple lack of being attracted to them.
mistabobdobalina
Sexy Member
It's definitely an interesting field of study (I just follow it as an interested amateur. I don't read/write thesis on the subject).
I definitely think gender identity is separate from physical form / genetics. Otherwise women with complete androgen insensitivity syndrome would be considered guys (it's a condition where a person is genetically XY (the genes that assign you as male), but they lack receptors for androgen (all humans start out physically female, and androgen is a hormone which in guys directs you to grow guy parts)).
Because they lack the receptors for it, they continue developing as girls, and no one is the wiser until they hit puberty and go to the doctor as teenagers trying to understand why they're not having their periods yet, and the course of tests and procedures comes to determine that they don't have ovaries or a womb.
But up until that point, they, and everyone else, don't even have the slightest suspicion that they're not girls. So what do you do in that case? Be like "Oh, sorry miss, now that we know you're XY we're re-labelling you as a dude and any guy who has sex with you is gay"?
That's the extreme example, because there's no penis involved, but it's an easy stage for setting off the discussion because it sets the groundwork for just how much influence hormones have on the way we develop and that nature is, for lack of a better word, messy. Here's a medical entry on AIS... look at how complicated all the outcomes and such are for that, and that's just one condition http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/186480.php Human development does not always go nearly as smoothly as we imagine it does, and I fully believe (as does the psychological community and the government) that people can have their gender identity mismatched from their physical form.
To me, it's who we are in the head that matters. That's where your personality exists. I think therefore I am and all that jazz. Contrary to the view simplistic view expressed in Kindergarten Cop, a woman can have a penis and a man can have a vagina. There are even people born intersex that feel like that they're both or neither.
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Conformity is the most boring aspect of human behaviour at times.
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Gender identity can be, yes i agree. But thats a tad bit different when it comes to sexuality, let alone the sexuality of the person that could be/is/or whatever attracted to them/not attracted to them.
Typed this long thing but really i have no clue how they'd be labeled but i do know straight sex between opposite sexes usually includes a peen and va jay jay.
For those that are in the position you've described then yeah its a difficult thing but that doesn't alter the sexual definition of someone that isn't in that situation.
mistabobdobalina
Sexy Member
Why about a guy who loses his penis due to injury. Does sexual activity between him and a woman cease to be heterosexual activity though, because there's no penis involved?
Or suppose sex between a man and a woman with partial androgen insensitivity syndrome who has a little bit of both going on downstairs, but was raised as a woman. Is the guy who dates her necessarily bisexual/homosexual?
What about sexual activity between partners that doesn't involve sex? If a man passionately makes out with another man, but their clothes stay on and they don't touch below the belt, is that somehow not gay because there's no penis involved?
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I think you're moving a little too quickly here. As in this thread jumped from shemales to a whole host of other sexual possibilities. And while simular there are differences. Such as straight men having sex with shemales that have a penis. On that topic, no i don't think the men are straight. Bi sexual sure but not straight.Straight men don't get aroused by peens.
A guy losing his penis doesn't say anything towards his sexuality other than he'll have trouble with sex. Now if he decides that since he doesn't have a penis he might as well be a woman thats a different story. Sex with him and a woman is heterosexual sex because thats still the definition of what straight is.
And this is why i say you're jumping the gun. A guy can be attracted to another guys personality. When that attraction turns sexual it because a whole notha story. Then when they exchange in it, that becomes a whole other story.
This is why i said the question of masculinity was interesting, not so much the straight vs whatever. As straight is about as straight as you can get, even with androgen insensitivity syndrome. As sad as it is to say, no i don't think a man having sex with a woman with a penis is considered straight. And yes it is all about the penis.
Adding a little further. Without the peen i think it might become a different story. I don't know if technology has gotten to that level yet to be able to replicate a vagina but even that would be a different story. And when i say different story that doesn't mean that i agree that a guy is straight at that point but more along the lines of curious towards acceptance or something.
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mistabobdobalina
Sexy Member
Mississippi is part of the bible belt. Gay marriage is illegal in Mississippi. Not only is there a constitutional amendment defining marriage as between a man and a woman, but that amendment was voted in with a higher percentage of the statewide vote than any other state in the union.
And yet... Mississippi allows sexual reassignment on birth certificates without completion of sex reassignment surgery. A pre-op transgender woman can become legally recognized as a woman, and go on to marry a man, in the state where gay marriage is prohibited by the widest margin. That same anti-gay government is fine to recognize a transgender woman as a woman, even with a penis, and her marriage as legal and proper in the eyes of the law.
You're entitled to your opinion on the matter (as is NC_BBC), but I still disagree quite strongly
Mississippi is part of the bible belt. Gay marriage is illegal in Mississippi. Not only is there a constitutional amendment defining marriage as between a man and a woman, but that amendment was voted in with a higher percentage of the statewide vote than any other state in the union.
And yet... Mississippi allows sexual reassignment on birth certificates without completion of sex reassignment surgery. A pre-op transgender woman can become legally recognized as a woman, and go on to marry a man, in the state where gay marriage is prohibited by the widest margin. That same anti-gay government is fine to recognize a transgender woman as a woman, even with a penis, and her marriage as legal and proper in the eyes of the law.
You're entitled to your opinion on the matter (as is NC_BBC), but I still disagree quite strongly
I can respect that. Just as long as you don't sick your beard on me. Cause...well its a long story and i still wake up at night in cold sweats. :biggrin1:
mistabobdobalina
Sexy Member
It's a very friendly beard though!
The funny point in me arguing all this is that I've never, to date, been attracted to a transgender woman. It's not about the penis though.
I'm attracted to women's faces, their personality, the way they carry themselves and probably various other more subtle cues.
Doesn't mean I don't get aroused by breasts or vaginas, but they're not the characteristics that determine if I'm attracted to one woman or unattracted to another. There was a poster in ask a woman forum who mentioned being turned away by a guy when he saw her vag, and that seems bizarre to me. For whoever that guy was, vag was really imporant. It's just not for me. That's why I say if I saw a cock down there I'd just be like "Huh" and roll with it.
But going back to what I am attracted to, I've never met a transgender woman who doesn't look like a man trying to look like a woman. That's not meant as any kind of insult, but the face & physical frame just reads as "guy" to me and I never find them attractive.
I do allow for the possibility though, that at some point in the future, with hormone treatments being started earlier and such, that maybe someday I would meet someone who's attractive and physicially indistinguishable from a woman (except that she has a cock). That's where that 1% gay comes from... just keeping an open mind in all things, but recognizing that the reality is that for now, I'm just not interested (at all).
...
Now, I do fantasize about chicks with dicks, but you have to understand that's a heterosexual fantasy taken to an even straighter extreme. It's a M-F sex scene where you've removed everything about the guy except his dick, and stuck that on another girl. So I'll have fantasies about two female college roommates, and when they get undressed one sees that the other has a dick down there and can't help but start feeling her up and they both start fucking and cumming and rolling around their dorm room.
Per the logic in this thread, this is a gay fantasy for me to have (because there's a dick involved and straight guys want nothing to do with dicks). For me, it's excessively straight (because even M-F sex has a dick involved, but in this scenario there's no guy in the equation at all). NC_BBC started insisting that if someone has fantasies like this, or visits websites that cater to this interest, that they're closeted gay/bi.
His exact words were "I think it appeals to men who are bi. Some can admit they're bi...and some cant. I respect guys who can just be who they are and admit they're bi. But as far as STRAIGHT guys.. we dont like penis."
To me, fantasizing about chicks with dicks is even more straight than fantasizing about a man and a woman. There's more women involved in the fantasy and fewer men. But according to NC_BBC, this means I like men. Whatever.
Doesn't look like that to me. Looks like a very pissed off fur coat on a chinchilla.
Yeah i gotta admit, once i saw where this topic was heading i kind of started checking out. Mostly because it's pretty evident that labels are the last thing the majority of men on this site want.
I can't speak for MC_BBC pants cause he's not here right now. Might have gone off to eat a burger or something but personally my definition of straight means not aroused by a penis at all. Now i do watch porn but i specifically watch for da pleasuring of the women. And that kind of whittles down the amount of porn i enjoy but thats another story.
I'm attracted to all sorts of people for all sorts of reason. When it comes to sexuality though well the ladies will always have my full attention there. Do i think men can be and area attractive? Sure. Do i want to have sex with'm? Hails no.
Could i be attracted to a transgender person? Sure. If i'm my definition of straight (which i am) How far could that go? Well, penis. At that point all you would need is some sauce, green peppers and maybe some meatballs (ha ha i said balls) and you'd have a spaghetti dinner. Not edible though cause ouch.
I've mistakenly clicked on links i shouldn't have and the outcome has been, yup definitely straight cause now i have an inny.
I've never even met a transgendered person but i can say with confidence that while i could be attracted to them somewhat, that attraction would die when they pulled out their floppy drive.
And just to say, i've also enjoyed lesbian porn involving strap-on's. I know it sounds like i'm splitting hairs but even then it was more about the enjoyment of the woman getting (no polite way to say that) rather then the woman that was (aren't you an adult dude?). And once again most of that seemed fake so i've kinda went back to amateur lesbian porn but you get my drift.
So yeah.
And for the record. I still think defining what masculinity is is...(too many is'esses? I need to take another english class) a interesting topic.
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mistabobdobalina
Sexy Member
Labels are both useful, and a pain in the ass. On the one hand, they give an opportunity to advertise your interests very simply. NC_BBC and I can both say that we are straight and feel like we are accurately conveying our interests. Both of us find women sexually attractive, and men sexually unattractive.
On the flip side, differences in the minutiae can create misunderstandings. At least in principle, I could find a woman who was born a man sexually attractive, even if she still had a penis. NC_BBC could not. If he doesn't redefine me as belonging to some different label, then he worries that someone might think that he could find those types of women attractive. But then his redefinition also doesn't work for me. Suggesting that I'm "bi" or "closeted gay" suggests that I find men sexually attractive, but I don't.
And round and round we go.
And it's the 4th of July. NC_BBC is probably out at a barbecue or something. It's raining here, bleh. I'm sure he'll pop in to add more to the thread later
On the flip side, differences in the minutiae can create misunderstandings. At least in principle, I could find a woman who was born a man sexually attractive, even if she still had a penis. NC_BBC could not. If he doesn't redefine me as belonging to some different label, then he worries that someone might think that he could find those types of women attractive. But then his redefinition also doesn't work for me. Suggesting that I'm "bi" or "closeted gay" suggests that I find men sexually attractive, but I don't.
And round and round we go.
And it's the 4th of July. NC_BBC is probably out at a barbecue or something. It's raining here, bleh. I'm sure he'll pop in to add more to the thread later
What if the scenario was reversed? Anthonynp is a performer on cam4. He is a well built guy with a clearly male body and look.
Anthony1 (Sorry the picture is so small, it was the best I could do)
He is also, you guessed it, a female to male transgendered who still has a vagina
Anthony2
If a guy was attracted to him would you say that ultimately it was a heterosexual impulse because he has a vagina? If I, a gay guy, was attracted to him would you think that I was a closet heterosexual just because he has a vagina?
What about this guy? Buck Angel
To straight guys who say that being attracted to a person with a penis is inherently gay and being attracted to something with a vagina is inherently straight, would you feel completely and 100% comfortable being attracted to the broad shoulders, thick arms, and hairy masculine face of Buck Angel just because he has a vagina?
I'm not suggesting that a guy who is turned on by a women with a dick is still 100% straight. I'm just asking you to entertain the notion that sexuality is not that cut and dry. There are people out there only turned on by people dressed up as stuffed animals. Is that person straight, gay, or Bi. Would you want to know the gender of the teddy bear first, or would you consider his sexuality something else that doesn't quite fit neatly into the Straight/Bi/Gay spectrum.
These are honest questions that I am asking - If you disagree, feel free to calmly refute them if you so choose. Don't go off the deep-end on a message board. It's lame
Anthony1 (Sorry the picture is so small, it was the best I could do)
He is also, you guessed it, a female to male transgendered who still has a vagina
Anthony2
If a guy was attracted to him would you say that ultimately it was a heterosexual impulse because he has a vagina? If I, a gay guy, was attracted to him would you think that I was a closet heterosexual just because he has a vagina?
What about this guy? Buck Angel
To straight guys who say that being attracted to a person with a penis is inherently gay and being attracted to something with a vagina is inherently straight, would you feel completely and 100% comfortable being attracted to the broad shoulders, thick arms, and hairy masculine face of Buck Angel just because he has a vagina?
I'm not suggesting that a guy who is turned on by a women with a dick is still 100% straight. I'm just asking you to entertain the notion that sexuality is not that cut and dry. There are people out there only turned on by people dressed up as stuffed animals. Is that person straight, gay, or Bi. Would you want to know the gender of the teddy bear first, or would you consider his sexuality something else that doesn't quite fit neatly into the Straight/Bi/Gay spectrum.
These are honest questions that I am asking - If you disagree, feel free to calmly refute them if you so choose. Don't go off the deep-end on a message board. It's lame
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mistabobdobalina
Sexy Member
Labels are both useful, and a pain in the ass. On the one hand, they give an opportunity to advertise your interests very simply. NC_BBC and I can both say that we are straight and feel like we are accurately conveying our interests. Both of us find women sexually attractive, and men sexually unattractive.
On the flip side, differences in the minutiae can create misunderstandings. At least in principle, I could find a woman who was born a man sexually attractive, even if she still had a penis. NC_BBC could not. If he doesn't redefine me as belonging to some different label, then he worries that someone might think that he could find those types of women attractive. But then his redefinition also doesn't work for me. Suggesting that I'm "bi" or "closeted gay" suggests that I find men sexually attractive, but I don't.
And round and round we go.
And it's the 4th of July. NC_BBC is probably out at a barbecue or something. It's raining here, bleh. I'm sure he'll pop in to add more to the thread later
Well here's the thing. I do agree with you, it is both a good and a bad thing. Difference being that when i say i'm straight people know what to expect. Which makes my life a bit easier. On the other hand, guy's that identify as straight but enjoy men or penis in which ever way you can think of have a difficult time. After telling their partner that they are in fact straight, their partner (i'm guessing) gets a little confused when more information rolls in.
The only time a straight label becomes difficult for me is when a large number of guys identify as straight but have other sexual needs. It isn't that big of a problem but if enough guys identify as straight with other needs then sooner or later i'd have to express "no really, i'm not that kind of straight, i'm the straight straight kind of straight. Once again it isn't that big of a problem for a straight guy.
One of the overarching problems with this though is that if these guys are identifying as straight when they have other sexual needs instead of simply stating they are bi then it kind of furthers the negative stereotype that being gay or bi is something to be ashamed of. Something that invariably hurts the community as a whole.
Hell it'll even keep those guys that identify as straight from meeting the kinds of people that will except them for who they are.
Once again, i can't speak for NC_BBC but i can say that i could find a woman like that attractive. Until i saw a penis. Thats the end game. The do not pass go. Collect your clothes and ask many many more questions.
But like you said, different stro......ok forget that comment. :biggrin1:
First off. I don't really like the term closeted closet or anything like that as its been used many many times in ways that i care not to repeat cause it just doesn't really work to begin with.
If without being able to see his/her who haaa you were attracted/sexually attracted then you're just attracted to another dude. If you saw his/her whatchamacallit and was still sexually attracted then ya might be bi.
Look i'm not saying that sexuality is rigid. (ha like a penis) There are people out there sexually attracted to exhaust pipes. Matter of fact that donut sitting by my desk is lookin mighty sexy right now. Oh back on topic.
My point is that fighting labels is only going to cause more problems down the line when there are way more important things to fight for. Like gay/bisexual marriage. Why? Cause of the same scenarios used in this thread. What if a transgender-ed person goes the way of the peen but is still sexually, emotional and whateverally attracted to men. Falls in love with a bro and wants to start a family but the state says he/she is a dude and adam and steve buscemi yacky yack.
At this point does it really matter to straights if they identify as anything? Nope cause at that point they judicial pancakes gets flipped and no matter if they're bi or gay they got problems.
Or you know. I could just be talking out ma ass.
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