Why i don't like the fat is beautiful movement

[Oxnard]

So I was at work typing on my phone and thus could not be as articulate as I wanted to be, but how did in the world did you get there from what I said/asked? Maybe the response to the following will make myself more clear...

You're the one who arbitrarily brought African-American men into this conversation.

You said economics/wealth plays a small part in the larger picture of who has what privliges.

And that just demonstrates that you don't understand what privilege is.

I disagreed saying I believe it actually plays an extremely large part.

You take twins, have one live in the trailer park on $10k a year and one in a country club suburb with $2.5 mil a year. Assuming they dont present themselves like a hobo the latter will be treated better and have access to more opportunities simply because of their greater wealth.

And I read Neller's post. I never denied any of that existed. I just dont understand how the facts I refered to about Ark's life are a representation of white privilege.

If you are African-American, you are treated differently by potential employers, by the police, and by society at large, and no matter how bad things get, people like you keep telling them that it's all in their heads. If an African-American had the same exact economic background and education as you, he very likely would not have a life nearly as nice as yours. That's the difference. That's what it means to be in a non-privileged group. Being in the privileged group gave you advantages, and your life is better off than it would have been had you been had you been part of a non-privileged group. You more than likely got a better job than you would otherwise have got. You more than likely were harassed by the police less. If a cop caught you with drugs, you would have been much less likely to go to jail and get a record. There's much, much more, but hopefully you get the idea already.

Being in the privileged group means you got a leg up on others, and now you want to deny that others have fewer advantages than you. It really sounds like you don't want to understand because that might threaten the unfair advantage that you had/have in life.

 

[firsttimecaller]

And I read Neller's post. I never denied any of that existed. I just dont understand how the facts I refered to about Ark's life are a representation of white privilege.

Yup, Im gonna quote myself

I got it now. It isnt about those things. Its about all the bullshit he doesnt have to deal with just for being an average white guy cruising around the world.

I still stand by the fact that wealth plays a large part in the amount of bullshit you have to deal with.

 

[firsttimecaller]

You're the one who arbitrarily brought African-American men into this conversation.

I used that group because it is an example of a group that everyone would agree is generally lacking in the societal privilege department.

 

[firsttimecaller]

And to further clear my name

Im only half white. I was born and raised in hawaii. What that means is I grew up in a place where race really didnt affect your life in terms of the privileges described. I.e. everyone was more or less treated equally in business, law and everyday social interactions no matter what shade of brown your skin was. The exception would be white people, who would definitely get bullied and shit talked behind thier back moreso than others just for being a haole maddafugga

So to get back on topic, do a large majority of people actually feel a woman has no value to society if they dont look good physically?

Also I dont think fat men have any more privilege than fat women, at least no more than a normal sized man would have over a normal sized woman.

 

[Oxnard]

Yup, Im gonna quote myself

I got it now. It isnt about those things. Its about all the bullshit he doesnt have to deal with just for being an average white guy cruising around the world.

I still stand by the fact that wealth plays a large part in the amount of bullshit you have to deal with.

And yet you keep misrepresenting what your privilege is.

 

[firsttimecaller]

And yet you keep misrepresenting what your privilege is.

What is my privilege?

 

[Oxnard]

And to further clear my name

Im only half white. I was born and raised in hawaii. What that means is I grew up in a place where race really didnt affect your life in terms of the privileges described. I.e. everyone was more or less treated equally in business, law and everyday social interactions no matter what shade of brown your skin was. The exception would be white people, who would definitely get bullied and shit talked behind thier back moreso than others just for being a haole maddafugga

So to get back on topic, do a large majority of people actually feel a woman has no value to society if they dont look good physically?

Also I dont think fat men have any more privilege than fat women, at least no more than a normal sized man would have over a normal sized woman.

Being half white doesn't mean Jack.

I'm half white and my cousin's are half white and I've known plenty of multiracial people over the years (no lovers, sadly).

Yes, on average we tend to be more sensitive to issues of race and culture and in general we have an easier time shifting perspective, but I have met some real racist dickwads in my time.

I myself had a negative image of homosexuality's as a teenaged in the 1980s and has to work to overcome that.

I stupidly bought into the media's image of Arabs and Persians until I met and befriended some.

I'm pretty sure there are still prejudices and biases in my own head that I am not aware of yet and will have to overcome in the future. So please don't act like being multiracial somehow proves that you aren't or can't be prejudiced. That just suggests to me that you haven't been paying attention.

And yes, the way society hammers women about self image is much much different from how it affects men. As a half Asian, I have more negative self body issues than most American men, and even I don't have it as bad as women.

The assumption about a woman's worth being tied to physical looks is one of those cultural assumptions that is not often discussed openly, so I think many people make these assumptions without realizing it, such as the people who want society to see fat women as attractive. The very argument suggests that they buy into the idea that a woman's value as a person is tied into her looks without realizing that they are making this assumption.

 

[Oxnard]

Bah. Sorry for the typos.

 

[firsttimecaller]

Being half white doesn't mean Jack.

I didnt say it did. I just put that out there to let you know I dont enjoy the full extent of white privilege that you assume I have.

I gotta say you tend to extraoplate alot of incorrect thoughts out of pretty innocuous statements.

The assumption about a woman's worth being tied to physical looks is one of those cultural assumptions that is not often discussed openly

Most of society thinks womens entire worth as human beings is tied to physical looks? I disagree with that.

I would agree that their worth as a sexual partner is usually more tied to their looks than men, but think that is more due to what each gender is generally looking for in that regard rather than some sort of a unspoken societal code.

 

[Oxnard]

I didnt say it did. I just put that out there to let you know I dont enjoy the full extent of white privilege that you assume I have.

I gotta say you tend to extraoplate alot of incorrect thoughts out of pretty innocuous statements.

Most of society thinks womens entire worth as human beings is tied to physical looks? I disagree with that.

I would agree that their worth as a sexual partner is usually more tied to their looks than men, but think that is more due to what each gender is generally looking for in that regard rather than some sort of a unspoken societal code.

If you think it only affects sex, then I don't think you've been paying attention.

Society tells your girl she's not pretty enough. You tell her she is. Have you not noticed that most women are in this situation and consistently believe society instead of their lovers? If it were just about sex, they would be more inclined to believe their lovers than society, because simply getting sex would prove to them that they are pretty enough.

 

[firsttimecaller]

If you think it only affects sex, then I don't think you've been paying attention.

My last boss was a woman. My wife makes more than I do, and Im software engineer. My mom was a company president. My MIL retired from a very high government position.

So...really?

I mean, Iunderstand Nellers point about personal anecdotes being meaningless, but my entire life is a case of women being equals at worst.

Society tells your girl she's not pretty enough. You tell her she is. Have you not noticed that most women are in this situation and consistently believe society instead of their lovers? If it were just about sex, they would be more inclined to believe their lovers than society, because simply getting sex would prove to them that they are pretty enough.

You ever thought maybe it isnt about you?

Like they know they are a nice lexus, but really want to be a ferrari just for personal ego sake?

 

[Oxnard]

My last boss was a woman. My wife makes more than I do, and Im software engineer. My mom was a company president. My MIL retired from a very high government position.

So...really?

I mean, Iunderstand Nellers point about personal anecdotes being meaningless, but my entire life is a case of women being equals at worst.



You ever thought maybe it isnt about you?

Like they know they are a nice lexus, but really want to be a ferrari just for personal ego sake?

Alright, now you are just going back to the same bad argument with the same misunderstanding about the nature of privilege.

You know two women make more money than you, therefore society is not making women neurotic about their looks, and therefore you can ignore all the arguments I've made on this topic throughout this entire thread? Can you say "non sequitur fallacy"?

 

[deleted464787]

I love how this thread has pretty much evolved into Oxnard telling everyone that theyre privileged, and unaware of it, and somewhat implying that because of that, we must be out of touch with everything thats going on and our opinions here dont matter.

Oxnard, youre a lost cause. So I'll concede this argument to you. Im a privileged white male who should be ashamed that he was born into a middle class white family, and I should be REALLY ashamed that I havent experienced the hardships that "un-privileged" people have to experience. I might as well just give away all my assets and posessions, and devote my life to helping people like yourself who think that everyone around them is privileged, and that youre not getting your fair share. Afterall, since Im privileged, I apparently must owe you something, because you deserve it for being unprivileged. Also, I'll be sure to go up to every woman I see in the future and grovel before them for forgiveness, because Im a privileged male, and apparently I must have done something to make them an unprivileged female. And to all the other privileged white males here, you guys better do the same because that will make the world a better place! How dare you all be privileged! You should be ashamed of yourselves. Cant you see all the unprivileged people are hurting? Theyre your responsibility! Help them out.

:yvey::

 

[Oxnard]

I love how this thread has pretty much evolved into Oxnard telling everyone that theyre privileged, and unaware of it, and somewhat implying that because of that, we must be out of touch with everything thats going on and our opinions here dont matter.

Oxnard, youre a lost cause. So I'll concede this argument to you. Im a privileged white male who should be ashamed that he was born into a middle class white family, and I should be REALLY ashamed that I havent experienced the hardships that "un-privileged" people have to experience. I might as well just give away all my assets and posessions, and devote my life to helping people like yourself who think that everyone around them is privileged, and that youre not getting your fair share. Afterall, since Im privileged, I apparently must owe you something, because you deserve it for being unprivileged. Also, I'll be sure to go up to every woman I see in the future and grovel before them for forgiveness, because Im a privileged male, and apparently I must have done something to make them an unprivileged female. And to all the other privileged white males here, you guys better do the same because that will make the world a better place! How dare you all be privileged! You should be ashamed of yourselves. Cant you see all the unprivileged people are hurting? Theyre your responsibility! Help them out.

:yvey::

I'm not the one who detailed this conversation into this topic.

If you want to actually refute my arguments instead of just complaining about the fact that I am making arguments, then please be my guest.

 

[Oxnard]

Derailed, not detailed. Sorry.

 

[deleted464787]

I'm not the one who detailed this conversation into this topic.

If you want to actually refute my arguments instead of just complaining about the fact that I am making arguments, then please be my guest.

I dont think you should be arguing against me. Im unprivileged now, and you dont know about the hardships I deal with. Cant you see its you thats the problem and not me? I expect you to change. Stop oppressing me. lol

 

[Oxnard]

I dont think you should be arguing against me. Im unprivileged now, and you dont know about the hardships I deal with. Cant you see its you thats the problem and not me? I expect you to change. Stop oppressing me. lol

First you complain about the fact that I am making arguments, now you make excuses for not, you know, refuting the arguments that you are so convinced support false conclusions?

It's almost as if you have no valid counterarguments to offer.

 

[deleted464787]

First you complain about the fact that I am making arguments, now you make excuses for not, you know, refuting the arguments that you are so convinced support false conclusions?

It's almost as if you have no valid counterarguments to offer.

I know sarcasm is sometimes hard to detect on the internet, but I can only be so blatantly obvious...

 

[firsttimecaller]

Alright, now you are just going back to the same bad argument with the same misunderstanding about the nature of privilege.

You know two women make more money than you, therefore society is not making women neurotic about their looks, and therefore you can ignore all the arguments I've made on this topic throughout this entire thread? Can you say "non sequitur fallacy"?

No

These were just some of many women I could name who were not held back in life despite not looking like supermodels.

 

[firsttimecaller]

To put it another way, what part of what you wrote would not apply to a fat woman who was the same racial makeup as I?

If you are African-American, you are treated differently by potential employers, by the police, and by society at large, and no matter how bad things get, people like you keep telling them that it's all in their heads. If an African-American had the same exact economic background and education as you, he very likely would not have a life nearly as nice as yours. That's the difference. That's what it means to be in a non-privileged group. Being in the privileged group gave you advantages, and your life is better off than it would have been had you been had you been part of a non-privileged group. You more than likely got a better job than you would otherwise have got. You more than likely were harassed by the police less. If a cop caught you with drugs, you would have been much less likely to go to jail and get a record. There's much, much more, but hopefully you get the idea already.