Why i don't like the fat is beautiful movement

DirtyAngel

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I don't buy into it because of the massive health implications.

On one hand I WANT people to care about themselves, to have self esteem and to reject superficiality, stereo types
and preconceived notions of how they should look.

On the other hand, every shift I'm confronted by the results of obesity, high cholesterol, stroke, joint issues, etc, etc with more and more bariatrics presenting for immediate medical interventions.

That being said, the whole "fat is beautiful" IS an issue when it starts to affect health and that person's ability to function in their life in the ways they would wish.

Unfortunately, many abusers justify judging and degrading and bullying larger women based on health argument, but what other poor health choices can be used/are used, to mock, vilify, degrade or attack others and accepted as appropriate?

If a person doesn't like vegetables and chooses not to eat them (and is slim/average size), would it be acceptable for others to single them out, demand they eat vegetables, mock and humiliate them, tell them they are disgusting etc?

We assume that they, as an adult, understand the implications this has on their health, and that their choices are for them to make, and none of our business. We would not dream of forcing our opinion and judgement on them or interfering with their lifestyle choices.

So therefore, whilst I agree the behaviour should not be encouraged, it certainly shouldn't ever be mocked or used as an excuse or justification to make a person feel bad.

Also if you're a health professional, I can tell you, as a large lady, that negative opinion even if a professional and fact based opinion, causes feelings of shame and guilt. Those feelings also continue the cycle behind the root cause of many with weight issues, low self esteem.

Consider how you might speak to and about a lady suffering with anorexia nervosa who is now at a stage where she is at risk and suffering health complications. Would you speak harshly, judgemental, blame placing? Or would you be gentle, compassionate, use empathy, try to understand and examine cause and attempt to help/deal with the emotional issues first?

I realise I've gone somewhat off topic, as was said in the beginning, the first issue is to remove the idea that a woman's value as a human being, is based on physical attractiveness/appearance/size.

I am not disgusting because I'm big nor am I unworthy because I make poor choices for my health or even undeserving of others consideration and compassion just because I may, due to low self esteem and trauma have no consideration for myself.

But if I had to say why I am beautiful, not that I've convinced myself of that yet, it would be because I try every day to treat others kindly, show care, consideration and compassion etc...

Sorry for the essay
 

Oxnard

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I know sarcasm is sometimes hard to detect on the internet, but I can only be so blatantly obvious...
No, I detected the sarcasm just fine.

I am merely pointing out that you are putting an awful lot of effort into telling me how much you disagree with my conclusions without actually trying to demonstrate that my conclusions are wrong.

You may have missed what that says about you, so I pointed that out.
 

Oxnard

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No

These were just some of many women I could name who were not held back in life despite not looking like supermodels.
Ah, so now your argument is that some women can succeed despite having disadvantages that you lack, therefore it is not a problem that other people have disadvantages that you don't?

That sounds like a rather desperate and flaccid defense of your advantage. Still sounds like self-serving bias to me.
 

Neller

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Im a privileged white male who should be ashamed that he was born into a middle class white family, and I should be REALLY ashamed that I havent experienced the hardships that "un-privileged" people have to experience. I might as well just give away all my assets and posessions, and devote my life to helping people like yourself who think that everyone around them is privileged, and that youre not getting your fair share. Afterall, since Im privileged, I apparently must owe you something, because you deserve it for being unprivileged. Also, I'll be sure to go up to every woman I see in the future and grovel before them for forgiveness, because Im a privileged male, and apparently I must have done something to make them an unprivileged female. And to all the other privileged white males here, you guys better do the same because that will make the world a better place! How dare you all be privileged! You should be ashamed of yourselves. Cant you see all the unprivileged people are hurting? Theyre your responsibility! Help them out.

Unfortunately this is often what the discussion of "privilege" devolves into when it really shouldn't be that. It isn't about making you ashamed of your life, but asking for compassion to those that may not have had the same advantages as you and to consider those when thinking of other people.

For example, if you have 3 equal people you are interviewing for a job, but of all different races, do you unconsciously pick the one that's the same as you? Why did you do that? Is it fair that you did that? Does it actually benefit or harm the work if you have everyone being of similar backgrounds? If you do hire the person that's most similar to you, do they then later on hire a person similar to them, perpetuating the bias and locking people of other races out of the work that you are doing? So now that those other races are blocked from some jobs, do you now think they simply can't do the work like people similar to you since obviously only people of your background do the job?

It's attempt to get those who don't believe they are racist or sexist to show that while they themselves may not be, they might have benefited from such ideas and should take measures to acknowledge them and perhaps rectify them. Something like "all the people doing this are men, is there a reason for that? Are women actually incapable or simply strongly discouraged?" It doesn't mean everything has to be equal everywhere, but where there is inequality there should be a reason for it.
 

Ed69

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I love how this thread has pretty much evolved into Oxnard telling everyone that theyre privileged, and unaware of it, and somewhat implying that because of that, we must be out of touch with everything thats going on and our opinions here dont matter.
Ignore him he has done this all over LPSG.He does not want a discussion or debate,he gets off on arguing with anyone that takes the bait.
 
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Oxnard

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Ignore him he has done this all over LPSG.He does not want a discussion or debate,he gets off on arguing with anyone that takes the bait.
That is a rationalization.

Multiple times on this site, I have backed down and thanked the other person for proving me wrong. If someone has arguments or evidence that is better than mine, I admit it. I'm not in this to prove other people wrong, I'm in this to find out if I'm wrong. Whether or not you figure out if you're wrong is your own damn problem.

Too many people treat debate like some kind of fucking sporting event. You pick a side and cheer for your side to win without any regard for trying to figure out what is true or at least likely to be true, then make bizarre excuses when or if "your side" loses due to weaker arguments.
 

firsttimecaller

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Ah, so now your argument is that some women can succeed despite having disadvantages that you lack, therefore it is not a problem that other people have disadvantages that you don't?

That sounds like a rather desperate and flaccid defense of your advantage. Still sounds like self-serving bias to me.

Not some women. Pretty much any woman. Drive and perserverance go a long way.

You never answered my question from this post: Why i don't like the fat is beautiful movement | Page 8 | LPSG
 

Oxnard

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Thikn2velvet1

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Fat is ugly not esthetically but because it is unhealthy and irresponsible, and as we move to a more socially responsible and communal health care model, far people need to do all the can to get thin and healthier and less expensive for society. If you pay your own health care costs then that isn't true but a single payer plan would morally require it. Same with smoking, drug use, alcohol.
 

Guy-jin

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Fat is ugly not esthetically but because it is unhealthy and irresponsible, and as we move to a more socially responsible and communal health care model, far people need to do all the can to get thin and healthier and less expensive for society. If you pay your own health care costs then that isn't true but a single payer plan would morally require it. Same with smoking, drug use, alcohol.
If society pays, society needs to solve the problems. Shaming the obese isn't going to work. There are mountains of evidence proving this. Calling them personally "irresponsible" solves nothing. Either figure out ways to make healthier food cheaper and more abundant, educate people on healthy food choices, and make wellness and fitness programs more accessible or shut up.
 

TexanStar

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Fat is ugly not esthetically but because it is unhealthy and irresponsible, and as we move to a more socially responsible and communal health care model, far people need to do all the can to get thin and healthier and less expensive for society. If you pay your own health care costs then that isn't true but a single payer plan would morally require it. Same with smoking, drug use, alcohol.

Please read something like this and try to get an understanding about real correlations between weight, weight loss, and health outcomes before spouting off like that.

No one says you have to be attracted to fat people any more than you have to be attracted to blondes, but the moral high horse you're riding around on looks something like this.

tumblr_m9fr0kwZ6N1revo57o1_500.jpg
 

Doranq

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Please read something like this and try to get an understanding about real correlations between weight, weight loss, and health outcomes before spouting off like that.

No one says you have to be attracted to fat people any more than you have to be attracted to blondes, but the moral high horse you're riding around on looks something like this.

tumblr_m9fr0kwZ6N1revo57o1_500.jpg

85411-horse-head-mask-thumbs-up-gif-D8Zv.gif
 

Thikn2velvet1

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If society pays, society needs to solve the problems. Shaming the obese isn't going to work. There are mountains of evidence proving this. Calling them personally "irresponsible" solves nothing. Either figure out ways to make healthier food cheaper and more abundant, educate people on healthy food choices, and make wellness and fitness programs more accessible or shut up.

No I won't dhut up.
 

Thikn2velvet1

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If society pays, society needs to solve the problems. Shaming the obese isn't going to work. There are mountains of evidence proving this. Calling them personally "irresponsible" solves nothing. Either figure out ways to make healthier food cheaper and more abundant, educate people on healthy food choices, and make wellness and fitness programs more accessible or shut up.
No I won't shut up. Educate people on healthy food choices? Who doesn't know healthy food choices? Who doesn't know water is better than than soda?

Healthy food is abundant and virtually equal in cost to unhealthy food. m.huffpost.com: Eating Healthy vs. Unhealthy Will Cost You $550 More Per Year, Study Reveals

People make poor decisions. Who in America does not know exercise and good eating habits lead to better health? Those like you who apologize for poor choices.

Go ahead and grandstand. It will not change the fact that people's health and the choices they make are their responsibility. Obesity now runs to 45% of Americans. You want me to believe that 45% of Americans don't know how to make good food choices or can't afford good food choices?

Walmart now buys much of its produce fresh and local. I have done it, gone intoWalmart to see if good food is expensive. It isn't.

No one said to shame them, but in a communal system they have to be responsible to those around them.
 

Thikn2velvet1

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Please read something like this and try to get an understanding about real correlations between weight, weight loss, and health outcomes before spouting off like that.

No one says you have to be attracted to fat people any more than you have to be attracted to blondes, but the moral high horse you're riding around on looks something like this.

tumblr_m9fr0kwZ6N1revo57o1_500.jpg
Re read the article you linked. You didn't I guess.
 

Oxnard

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No I won't shut up. Educate people on healthy food choices? Who doesn't know healthy food choices? Who doesn't know water is better than than soda?

Healthy food is abundant and virtually equal in cost to unhealthy food. m.huffpost.com: Eating Healthy vs. Unhealthy Will Cost You $550 More Per Year, Study Reveals

People make poor decisions. Who in America does not know exercise and good eating habits lead to better health? Those like you who apologize for poor choices.

Go ahead and grandstand. It will not change the fact that people's health and the choices they make are their responsibility. Obesity now runs to 45% of Americans. You want me to believe that 45% of Americans don't know how to make good food choices or can't afford good food choices?

Walmart now buys much of its produce fresh and local. I have done it, gone intoWalmart to see if good food is expensive. It isn't.

No one said to shame them, but in a communal system they have to be responsible to those around them.
It doesn't actually accomplish anything save to blame the victims.

Blaming gay people for anti-GLBT violence and anti-GLBT injustices did not solve the problem. Talking about those injustices and confronting bigots did.
 

Thikn2velvet1

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It doesn't actually accomplish anything save to blame the victims.

Blaming gay people for anti-GLBT violence and anti-GLBT injustices did not solve the problem. Talking about those injustices and confronting bigots did.

Ok, now we are venturing into crazy. Over eating and under exercising are utterly within the persons control. Violence against gays is not. Even making this leap of nonsense is bizarre.
 

Thikn2velvet1

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Just to be clear, there are many more studies showing healthy foods are cheaper than in healthy foods. So using a range, healthy foods are $550 per year expensive at their worst, and cheaper by miles in many other studies.