Why is it so hard to come out of the closet?

joyboytoy79

Sexy Member
Joined
Aug 28, 2006
Posts
3,686
Media
32
Likes
60
Points
193
Location
Washington, D.C. (United States)
Sexuality
100% Gay, 0% Straight
Gender
Male
Traditional standards of morality continue to recede. Sooner or later they will diminish to the point that what was once unacceptable will be the norm.

Of course society will collapse shortly thereafter. It's a repeating historical cycle.

I'm not saying this is a bad thing.

I'm sure you are referring to the oft-cited and oft-refuted Nero case. Well, dear, let me burst your bubble. Pick up a history book. Read it. You will see that our society is like all the others. Morality is a constantly evolving idea. It always has been. Our "traditional" morals are only 20 to 30 years old. They change with the times. That's how a society functions and continues to live. It's when the morals become static for too long that a surge of malcontent overcomes the restrictive bindings of the ruling elite, and colapse ensues.
 

Lex

Expert Member
Joined
Jun 11, 2004
Posts
8,253
Media
0
Likes
118
Points
268
Location
In Your Darkest Thoughts and Dreams
Sexuality
99% Gay, 1% Straight
Gender
Male
I'm sure you are referring to the oft-cited and oft-refuted Nero case. Well, dear, let me burst your bubble. Pick up a history book. Read it. You will see that our society is like all the others. Morality is a constantly evolving idea. It always has been. Our "traditional" morals are only 20 to 30 years old. They change with the times. That's how a society functions and continues to live. It's when the morals become static for too long that a surge of malcontent overcomes the restrictive bindings of the ruling elite, and colapse ensues.

GAWD, I love you.

I imagined you on Dawson's Creek when I read this. HAWT.

And Hopeful.
 

DC_DEEP

Sexy Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2005
Posts
8,714
Media
0
Likes
93
Points
183
Sexuality
No Response
It was a silly show, but I recently saw something on A&E about "gays go on strike."

It would be very interesting if every sexual minority person (in or out of the closet) in this country (even around the world) went on strike until equality issues got settled. By sexual minority, I mean every person who is not 100% heterosexual (and even those guys that claim "I'm straight, but like a little man-to-man action once in a while) and the friends and family and supporters of those sexual minorities.

I would never ever happen, but I just wondered what the results would be.
 

kalipygian

Expert Member
Joined
Dec 3, 2005
Posts
1,948
Media
31
Likes
139
Points
193
Age
68
Location
alaska
Sexuality
100% Gay, 0% Straight
Gender
Male
I took Shelby's post te be humor.

The empire in Nero's time was actually well governed (no credit to him personally) prosperous, the economy was growing, and it and at peace.

People were broadly tolerant, gay marraige was not unusual (Nero was one of 2 emperors who married men, he actually did it twice, once as the wife, once as the husband). Of the first 12 emperor's, only Claudius was 100% straight.

Intolerance was symptomatic of it in it's economic and cultural decline, (not it's heyday). The return to primitive religion, such as christianity, was a symptom.
 

dannymawg

Experimental Member
Joined
Sep 30, 2006
Posts
1,113
Media
0
Likes
17
Points
183
I really want to take over this thread :biggrin1:

But I think I'll respond to the following, and chill until the week tween x-mas and NY. By then I can get a OP together.

The problem of acceptance, respectability, and trust. All relating to the people that the individual has to come out to.
I've wronged those close to me on all three counts. I've not chosen to blab about it (excepting LPSG of course), but have resolved to reach out to those who might be questioning those three counts of me, as well. It's a big step - in the realm of admitting pathological lying, which, if I were in the shoes of others, I wouldn't be doing any trusting of this guy anymore either.

Does anyone really need to ask what societal pressures were so powerful that an intelligent man would choose to live an embarrassing (in retropsect) double life?
See above. In my fucked up corner of the world, gays or bis aren't accepted, are respected but with disdain, and can't be trusted (check fundie "gay = child molester" arguments).

I'm the guy you call when you need help on moving day. I'm the guy who can make your band rock out. I'm the guy that knows how to bypass that annoying chime in your car without hacking any wires. While I'm a klutz with an actual ball, but you give me something, I'm gonna fuckin run with it. I didn't need/want my cred challenged. I expect exactly as much respect as I dish out. As respect involves some emotional investment, I'm so very tired of having my investments tank.

Traditional standards of morality continue to recede. Sooner or later they will diminish to the point that what was once unacceptable will be the norm.

Of course society will collapse shortly thereafter. It's a repeating historical cycle.

I'm not saying this is a bad thing.
So what does "normal" constitute nowadays? :biggrin1:

I'm sure you are referring to the oft-cited and oft-refuted Nero case. Well, dear, let me burst your bubble. Pick up a history book. Read it. You will see that our society is like all the others. Morality is a constantly evolving idea. It always has been. Our "traditional" morals are only 20 to 30 years old. They change with the times. That's how a society functions and continues to live. It's when the morals become static for too long that a surge of malcontent overcomes the restrictive bindings of the ruling elite, and colapse ensues.

Two thoughts:

1) Morals, like fashion, are cyclical. Are those cycles now so frequent and compressed as to cause dissonance (which I happen to like)? Sorry to sound like V, but I tried to express something similar here: shorts thread

2) "Traditional morals" was a default for me in the real world with most every sexuality dialog I've ever had. Or at least an easy out when the topic became uncomfortable - add "and it's wrong" to my sig and you'll get the idea). Easy enough default too, as one side of my family is hardcore Presbyterian witnesses, the other Catholic. I've only been recently able to rationalize my sexuality, independent of societal cause/effects, and largely in thanks to all the salient posting here on LPSG. Again, a compelling need to say thanks to you all for it, and for being here.

I guess I'm at the point where I have to let go of or rephrase pet sayings like "judge not lest ye be judged", if I intend on renouncing my family's Bible-based religions as a supposed moral compass. Which will make me even more persona non grata in a family that could get by without me anyway, and surprise (or not) many of my circles of friends.

OK time to chill :biggrin1:

"nuttin chillin at da Holidae In"
 

B_spiker067

Experimental Member
Joined
Nov 17, 2006
Posts
2,163
Media
0
Likes
3
Points
183
I really want to take over this thread :biggrin1:

But I think I'll respond to the following, and chill until the week tween x-mas and NY. By then I can get a OP together.
...

DH,

You're cool by me dude. I'm sure you'll successfully resolve these angst issues. You might be able to find a reasonable middle road that doesn't beat you down, if you look for it as far as faith is concerned.

Peace Bro,
Spiker
 

B_big dirigible

Experimental Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2005
Posts
2,672
Media
0
Likes
12
Points
183
Sexuality
No Response
Of the first 12 emperor's, only Claudius was 100% straight.

12? That gets you to, let's see .... Nerva. The first of the "Five Good Emperors", immediate successor to the Flavian dynasty. Claudius was assassinated by one of his wives (the last one, obviously - I don't recall how many he had. All his marriages were arranged. I suspect Claudius realized how homicidal Roman women of that socialogical stratum were, but it didn't do him any good).
 

GoneA

Sexy Member
Joined
Sep 12, 2005
Posts
5,020
Media
0
Likes
37
Points
268
Why is it so hard to come out of the closet?

Why is it so hard to come out of the closet? When my BF came out to his father, his father made sure to give him a bloody nose and a black eye.

That's why it's so damn hard to come out of the closet.

Fuck these people and their asinine, insensate beliefs. Fuck them till their tight asses bleed.
 

B_lrgeggs

Experimental Member
Joined
Jun 30, 2006
Posts
836
Media
0
Likes
14
Points
163
Location
mid-atlantic region
Sexuality
Unsure
Gender
Male
Are you kidding..I have a hard enough time just talking about sex...
(That is why I like this website...it gives me a lot of freedom to talk about
a subject I have no outlet otherwise to talk about...
 

B_spiker067

Experimental Member
Joined
Nov 17, 2006
Posts
2,163
Media
0
Likes
3
Points
183
I really want to take over this thread :biggrin1:

But I think I'll respond to the following, and chill until the week tween x-mas and NY. By then I can get a OP together.

...

DH,

Online I get kind of guarded. But I’m going to go ahead and write this for you and me. This is the first time I’ve put this to ‘paper’ and it will probably have many revisions in the next few years and will become longer (I will assume that you read some of that religion post).

The Bible to me is not a scientific book but rather a spiritual tome with a great amount of insight into life. If you look at it carefully, its rules, regulations, and admonitions are by and large about guiding you into a long and healthy life with the express intent to afford you as much time as possible to create a relationship with God. And when we die there is not necessarily a heaven and hell as it has been painted for us but rather heaven and hell is how relatively close we will be to God for an awful long time. Hell is being far away from God and his kind and will probably be thought as heaven by some. I let you in on a secret though many of the righteous 'Fundies' are going to 'hell' where some here will find themselves ass cheek to jowl with them.:tongue:

Now the Bible talks about killing homosexuals but it also talks about stoning adulterers which seems to be a large chunk of the hetero Christian community. They may have had their reason in their time for the death sentences but they have past (much like the rules on what we get to eat, we aren’t all kosher, we aren't supposed to eat pig in order to avoid trichonosis). And the New Testament is definitely a new compact that trumps the Old Testament in many ways. I have a feeling that my Christian God is a little more nuanced than Fundamentals will ever be able to comprehend, sadly.

Any people who would call themselves Christian and practice hate of homosexuals are no more practicing Christians than those Moslems who have hijacked Islam in today’s day and age are practicing Moslems.

Much like the constitution the Bible is a 'living' document for me. I use reason and the Holy Spirit (that little piece of God we all have in us) to read the Bible.


Don’t lose your faith.


Spiker



P.S. Take this re-work as you see fit and share it with someone in your family when you choose to and see what they say. Get examples of loss tragedies for when people come out. Ask that family member what they think. Make that person a friend in this. Pick him/her for being able to have discernment. He/She probably already knows your 'status' and you could gradually work this out rather than abruptly, but start with allies in the family. Family is all you got but if you can't keep yours gays seem to be able to make family easily because they are so accepting.


P.P.S. Also consider what a rampant sexual life means long term. Behavior does have its ramifications, pick your trade offs. Find a reasonable medium in all this and keep growing in your understanding.
 

Lex

Expert Member
Joined
Jun 11, 2004
Posts
8,253
Media
0
Likes
118
Points
268
Location
In Your Darkest Thoughts and Dreams
Sexuality
99% Gay, 1% Straight
Gender
Male
Why is it so hard to come out of the closet? When my BF came out to his father, his father made sure to give him a bloody nose and a black eye.

That's why it's so damn hard to come out of the closet.

Fuck these people and their asinine, insensate beliefs. Fuck them till their tight asses bleed.

Goner--I am sorry that someone you love has been hurt so. That is beyond awful. I am glad you spoke up to share this with us. It is a poignant reminder of the world we live in.

HUGS
 

GoneA

Sexy Member
Joined
Sep 12, 2005
Posts
5,020
Media
0
Likes
37
Points
268
Goner--I am sorry that someone you love has been hurt so. That is beyond awful. I am glad you spoke up to share this with us. It is a poignant reminder of the world we live in.

HUGS

Thank you, Lex, really! I feel a lot better these days than I have in weeks past. In fact, it's the reason why I haven't been around, and now that I'm getting over a few things I can somewhat resume posting.

It's an unfortunate situation because it's one of those things you can only realize wasn't the "right decision" until after the fact. :rolleyes:

Mark often tells me that, even though his father acted vehemently, he feels better having told him.

I guess I can see how that's possible.
 

Lex

Expert Member
Joined
Jun 11, 2004
Posts
8,253
Media
0
Likes
118
Points
268
Location
In Your Darkest Thoughts and Dreams
Sexuality
99% Gay, 1% Straight
Gender
Male
I am glad Goner. I have some updates to my own coming out process, but wanted to wait until I spend Christmas with my step-mom to post. My dad still has not said anything to me since I told him (months ago).

Sigh. I bet your man DOES still feel better. And it WAS the right decision. He needs to be able to be who he is and be in love with you, regardless of how his father may feel about his orientation.

Fuck that noise (as Bronx would say).