Why is the clitoris so small?

[Wyldgusechaz]

Sexual Organs and Heteorchonic Theory (Penis and Testicle Size, Clitoris Location, etc.)



We talk about penis size so much how about the alternative? I have read and its also been my experience that women have a harder time cumming from intercourse that direct clit stimulation. Evolutionarily Nature could not have come up with a worse design. Why do you think the clit isn't more prominent and easily stimultated during intercourse?

I am paraphrasing a bit but one of the above abstracts theorizes that clits have shrunk in order to increase penis size. A small clit NEEDS a big cock for stimulation and a big cock is a good indicator of male vigor, so by the female evolving with a smaller clit she selects more vigorous males.

Still a crappy design. I studied evolutionary biology in Uni and there are a lot of awkward designs. Some can be answered, like pale skin. Thought is pale skin in foggy climates allows more Vitamin d to be prduced by the weaker sun.

 

[D_alex8]

You might want to have a read through this old thread in relation to this subject matter, also with images near the end:

---> clitorally well-endowed

 

[viking1]

Sexual Organs and Heteorchonic Theory (Penis and Testicle Size, Clitoris Location, etc.)



We talk about penis size so much how about the alternative? I have read and its also been my experience that women have a harder time cumming from intercourse that direct clit stimulation. Evolutionarily Nature could not have come up with a worse design. Why do you think the clit isn't more prominent and easily stimultated during intercourse?

I am paraphrasing a bit but one of the above abstracts theorizes that clits have shrunk in order to increase penis size. A small clit NEEDS a big cock for stimulation and a big cock is a good indicator of male vigor, so by the female evolving with a smaller clit she selects more vigorous males.

Still a crappy design. I studied evolutionary biology in Uni and there are a lot of awkward designs. Some can be answered, like pale skin. Thought is pale skin in foggy climates allows more Vitamin d to be prduced by the weaker sun.

This is quite interesting. I does make sense. I always knew bigger was better...and now possible scientific proof.

 

[Wyldgusechaz]

You might want to have a read through this old thread in relation to this subject matter, also with images near the end:

---> clitorally well-endowed

All clits should be larger and more prominent like those pictured if stimulation through intercourse is a goal.

More weird biology Hairless humans, balding patterns in men, African hair(African hair is universally disliked even by Africans!) (I had to do a research paper on hair). Blue eyes, wisdom teeth, long human infancy.

 

[Gillette]

African hair?

Q. Why do african men always have sex on their minds?
A. They have pubic hair on their head.

Just a joke folks

Maybe part of the reason it has evolved that way is to favor men capable of multi-tasking.

 

[Gisella]

Well, for sure size will not comand extra feelings at least in my case...I'm a large than average that cum just by penetration...my outsides seems sleep neutral and awake just when 'something' is inside, of course a penis is my preference...believe or not clits do not need to be manipulated for me to cum at all. But ass caressing is another thing and for sure will be very good while being penetrate.

I think somehow that my clits nerves went deep inside and south when I was being made... :redface: :biggrin1:

 

[Chrysalis]

"Based on this analysis of the adaptive functions of female orgasm, we can start to understand why the female clitoris remained small and relatively hard to stimulate, while the male penis enlarged to unprecedented proportions in our linage. Maintenance of a small, relatively hidden, and relatively hard-to-stimulate clitoris enhanced female discernment and choosiness with respect to assessing sexual stimulation by males. A larger, more protruberant clitoris which could have been effectively stimulated by almost any tactile contact, however inept, would have made its female bearer less able to judge the relative stimulation capabilities of different males. She might have mated with less sexually competent males and produced less sexually competent sons." (Miller, Geoffrey F. (1994) Evolution of the human brain through runaway sexual selection: the mind as a protean courtship device. unpublished thesis. pp. 215)

Sorry, but I think this guy is reaching. It could just as easily be theorized that women with smaller clits or less sensitive clits have more difficulty reaching orgasm even with a bigger penis. And I'm sure in our early evolutionary days, males weren't as sophisticated as they are now, and probably didn't try to prolong sex to pleasure the female.

Therefore, the clitorally challenged female (less likely to orgasm through vaginal intercourse at all), would have more difficulty differentiating the quality of a partner based on his penis size. In fact, if she experienced sex as more painful than pleasurable, she may have sought out males with smaller penises.

I'm not saying the theory has no validity, but to me it stands on shaky ground, at best.

A small clit NEEDS a big cock for stimulation.

I want to interject here that I disagree. What a smaller (and/or less sensitive) clit really needs for stimulation is:

1) A good lover :tongue:
2) Groin-to-groin contact (which can be easier with a smaller penis, as I have stated before).

 

[Wyldgusechaz]

Sorry, but I think this guy is reaching. It could just as easily be theorized that women with smaller clits or less sensitive clits have more difficulty reaching orgasm even with a bigger penis. And I'm sure in our early evolutionary days, males weren't as sophisticated as they are now, and probably didn't try to prolong sex to pleasure the female.

Therefore, the clitorally challenged female (less likely to orgasm through vaginal intercourse at all), would have more difficulty differentiating the quality of a partner based on his penis size. In fact, if she experienced sex as more painful than pleasurable, she may have sought out males with smaller penises.

I'm not saying the theory has no validity, but to me it stands on shaky ground, at best.


I want to interject here that I disagree. What a smaller (and/or less sensitive) clit really needs for stimulation is:

1) A good lover :tongue:
2) Groin-to-groin contact (which can be easier with a smaller penis, as I have stated before).

I don't think its true, I just posted it for food for thought.

2) Groin-to-groin contact (which can be easier with a smaller penis, as I have stated before).[/QUOTE]

I was hoping for you to mention this Chrysalis. I had read your previous posts and they got me to thinking.

Most women here and I also think there has been some research on this for women in general like a cock about 7-8 inches long and THICK. I think (but I am not sure) that most females like groin to groin contact. The G to G contact and the intimacy that implies may be the key.

 

[ArtfulDominant]

Wyldgusechaz posed the question "Why is the clitoris so small?"
and later opined: .. "Still a crappy design."
While I also used to wonder the former, I never thought the latter. No, I was rather envious of how this seemingly small nub of flesh could trigger a woman into spasm after spasm of delight.


The clitoris is more than a mere button.

We are only beginning to understand a woman's anatomy. When I say "we" I mean men, women, doctors and sex educators. Accurate information about women's "sexual-pleasure-systems" is still much needed. (When the G-spot became a buzz-word in the seventies, many sexually enlightened women initially dismissed the concept as a flight of male fantasy.)

Freud set up the dichotomy of the clitoral versus vaginal orgasm. Many people (and many of the posts on this site aren’t much different) attempt to pinpoint and differentiate orgasms that originate or culminate in the clitoris, G-spot, vagina, cervix, fornix, A-spot, .. you name it!. At the same time, I'll bet that there are many women who don't feel that they can be quite that specific in describing or categorizing all their orgasms. There may even be some who feel inadequate because they haven’t definitively located one obviously differentiated piece of flesh that others think they’re “supposed to have”.

Anatomists have known for some time how all the “remote outposts” of a woman’s sexual pleasure system are connected. But this knowledge has really been obscured with simplistic pictorial renderings and generalized answers from “experts”.. What am I getting at? That because many people don’t understand what a wonderful system the clitoris is … in its entirety, they can get very narrowly focused on paying attention to a particular “bit”

Here’s a few excerpts from a webpage that I found totally fascinating when I first encountered it:
What these books leave out is something any anatomist knows. The clitoris actually has multiple parts, including two legs (or crura) which extend 9 cm into the pelvis, as well as two bulbs (called "the bulbs of the vestibule") which lie to either side of the vaginal opening within the labia minora. …………………..
[ And Gisella – a woman who knows her body extremely well, has just posted this:
“I think somehow that my clits nerves went deep inside and south when I was being made” .. LOL I like the way she brings dry as dust textbooks to life .. A much more interesting way to say including two legs (or crura) which extend 9 cm into the pelvis ]
Anyway .. back to the excerpts
In an article published in the Journal of Urology last summer [1998], Australian researcher Helen O'Connell claimed that the clitoris is larger than even anatomists previously …………..…
Another claim made by O'Connell is that the clitoris actually surrounds the urethra (the passageway through which urine exits the bladder) on three sides. The fourth, posterior side is embedded in the anterior vaginal wall. Some health workers feel that this could explain the phenomenon known as the "G-spot," an area of increased sexual responsiveness on the upper wall of the vagina, just below the urethra. ………

Here’s the weblink: Study Claims Clitoris Larger Than Thought

I think it’s a shame that men and women don’t realize how “it all works” at the outset .. when they first start exploring each other’s bodies. Yes: many women only (or thus far) get off from direct stimulation of the “clitoral tip”. And yes a lot of women who really get into intercourse and are able to climax through “hands-free penetration” sometimes lose interest in other forms of sex play to a certain extent. I think that by seeing sex as a list of “tasks” to checked off …. Rub the clit, hit the G-spot etc .. a lot of men and women get shortchanged in the amount of pleasure that they can derive together from all forms of sexplay .. When they realize that a woman’s “clitoral system” is an amazing piece of human engineering* that offers a continuum of pleasure throughout, they may find that they’re eventually able to derive pleasure in ways that they hadn’t experienced before.
* = obviously I realize it wasn't "engineered by humans", Wyld.
words failed me: I should have said it's an exquiste anatomical structure.

 

[B_josiah852]

Well, for sure size will not comand extra feelings at least in my case...I'm a large than average that cum just by penetration...my outsides seems sleep neutral and awake just when 'something' is inside, of course a penis is my preference...believe or not clits do not need to be manipulated for me to cum at all. But ass caressing is another thing and for sure will be very good while being penetrate.

I think somehow that my clits nerves went deep inside and south when I was being made... :redface: :biggrin1:

Yes Gisella there are women just like you. I have made love to 3 or 4 ladies in my life that didn't need clitoral stimulation to orgasm. There is nothing hotter than making love to a multiorgasmic woman that doesn't have to have her clitoris stimulated to do just that. They still loved to have a talented hot wet tounge slid across that cute little thing.

 

[Ethyl]

I can't imagine having a larger clitoris (and mine is more prominent than the majority). It's already extremely sensitive and i'd be willing to bet that if it were much larger, direct stimulation would be downright uncomfortable for me. I like the fact I can enjoy stimulation by hand, mouth or cock and experience the joys of direct pressure as well as the light-as-a-feather touches.

 

[Wyldgusechaz]

>>>When they realize that a woman’s “clitoral system” is an amazing piece of human engineering that offers a continuum of pleasure throughout, they may find that they’re eventually able to derive pleasure in ways that they hadn’t experienced before.<<<

Huh? It wasn't engineered by humans. It has evolved thru natural selection.

And i stand by my previous statement. I know the female anatomy exquisitely ( and i might add this knowledge has wonderful *vibes* quoting Gisella for my partner) its an awful evolutionary design. Wax eloquent all you want but the plain truth is our bodies were evolved long before there were books and internet chat rooms and science. The age of civilized man is about 5000 years, just a passing moment in the million or so years Homo sapiens has walked the earth. I doubt 100000 years ago our ancestors could spend an hour or two on the savanna or the forests or Ice age caves pleasuring each other while their very survival was in constant danger. On the other hand maybe they could if our ancestors behaved more like todays chimps and bonoboos. However there are lots of studies indicating we did not.

I have stated this before. I think lots of women thru out the ages lived their whole lives never having had an orgasm especially one generated thru sex.

 

[Wyldgusechaz]

I can't imagine having a larger clitoris (and mine is more prominent than the majority). It's already extremely sensitive and i'd be willing to bet that if it were much larger, direct stimulation would be downright uncomfortable for me. I like the fact I can enjoy stimulation by hand, mouth or cock and experience the joys of direct pressure as well as the light-as-a-feather touches.

MB can you cum easily from intercourse w/o a lot of fore play?

 

[Ethyl]

MB can you cum easily from intercourse w/o a lot of fore play?

If i'm already turned on, yes. There's something to be said for quickies, but most of the time i'd rather have the foreplay. Makes it much more fun.

To say that women are impractically engineered to receive orgasms from intercourse is to imply sex with a woman takes too long and orgasms should be quick as well as easy. Theories like this discount the beauty and complexity of the female orgasm. Read through "Women's Issues" and "Sex with a large Penis" and you'll find some can orgasm during intercourse, some can't, some need direct clitoral stimulation by hand or mouth, some can achieve a clitoral orgasm during intercourse by the aforementioned grind (I can). I like convenient orgasms like everyone else but why have that as the main goal? Exploration should be at least half the fun.

 

[Gillette]

I think it’s a shame that men and women don’t realize how “it all works” at the outset .. when they first start exploring each other’s bodies. Yes: many women only (or thus far) get off from direct stimulation of the “clitoral tip”. And yes a lot of women who really get into intercourse and are able to climax through “hands-free penetration” sometimes lose interest in other forms of sex play to a certain extent. I think that by seeing sex as a list of “tasks” to checked off …. Rub the clit, hit the G-spot etc .. a lot of men and women get shortchanged in the amount of pleasure that they can derive together from all forms of sexplay .. When they realize that a woman’s “clitoral system” is an amazing piece of human engineering* that offers a continuum of pleasure throughout, they may find that they’re eventually able to derive pleasure in ways that they hadn’t experienced before.
* = obviously I realize it wasn't "engineered by humans", Wyld.
words failed me: I should have said it's an exquiste anatomical structure.

Marry me

 

[Wyldgusechaz]

By today's standards when survival is not the primary drive in man, of course enjoying the magic of sexuality is the sweetest of nectars.

I doubt when our bodies were evolved eons ago there was time to enjoy the beauty and complexity of the female orgasm. That is a luxury given to modern women. Stayng alive and finding protein was the prime drive in man.

So few understand evolutionary biology. Everyone thinks we evolved about 5000 years ago.

 

[Gillette]

By
I doubt when our bodies were evolved eons ago there was time to enjoy the beauty and complexity of the female orgasm. That is a luxury given to modern women. Stayng alive and finding protein was the prime drive in man.

Which is precisely why this study will recieve so much criticism. Women would have selected mates based on physical prowess and intelligence to protect and feed her and her offspring. Whether or not he made her eyes roll back would hardly have been a deciding factor. The study also assumes that the females would be auditioning the whole tribe before making their decision. Wouldn't that mean all the females would have chosen the same male?

You could postulate that they chose protectors for their partners but still chose elephant boy to sire their offspring, but if that were the case and we were always selecting towards a larger penis it fails to explain the wide variety of sizes still present today.

 

[Wyldgusechaz]

Which is precisely why this study will recieve so much criticism. Women would have selected mates based on physical prowess and intelligence to protect and feed her and her offspring. Whether or not he made her eyes roll back would hardly have been a deciding factor. The study also assumes that the females would be auditioning the whole tribe before making their decision. Wouldn't that mean all the females would have chosen the same male?

You could postulate that they chose protectors for their partners but still chose elephant boy to sire their offspring, but if that were the case and we were always selecting towards a larger penis it fails to explain the wide variety of sizes still present today.

here is a very interesting paper

http://www.slate.com/id/2119551/

basically female orgasms are a *happy accident*. there is no biological purpose.

 

[Gisella]

[ And Gisella – a woman who knows her body extremely well, has just posted this:
“I think somehow that my clits nerves went deep inside and south when I was being made” .. LOL I like the way she brings dry as dust textbooks to life .. A much more interesting way to say including two legs (or crura) which extend 9 cm into the pelvis ]
Anyway .. back to the excerpts
In an article published in the Journal of Urology last summer [1998], Australian researcher Helen O'Connell claimed that the clitoris is larger than even anatomists previously …………..…
Another claim made by O'Connell is that the clitoris actually surrounds the urethra (the passageway through which urine exits the bladder) on three sides. The fourth, posterior side is embedded in the anterior vaginal wall. Some health workers feel that this could explain the phenomenon known as the "G-spot," an area of increased sexual responsiveness on the upper wall of the vagina, just below the urethra. ………

Here’s the weblink: Study Claims Clitoris Larger Than Thought

I think it’s a shame that men and women don’t realize how “it all works” at the outset .. when they first start exploring each other’s bodies. Yes: many women only (or thus far) get off from direct stimulation of the “clitoral tip”. And yes a lot of women who really get into intercourse and are able to climax through “hands-free penetration” sometimes lose interest in other forms of sex play to a certain extent. I think that by seeing sex as a list of “tasks” to checked off …. Rub the clit, hit the G-spot etc .. a lot of men and women get shortchanged in the amount of pleasure that they can derive together from all forms of sexplay .. When they realize that a woman’s “clitoral system” is an amazing piece of human engineering* that offers a continuum of pleasure throughout, they may find that they’re eventually able to derive pleasure in ways that they hadn’t experienced before.
* = obviously I realize it wasn't "engineered by humans", Wyld.
words failed me: I should have said it's an exquiste anatomical structure.

Yep, I know my body and it took a long way to learn it..because it seems I'm not 'conventional' because my outside never ticklish me to explore and masturbate. My desire was inside and for this motive only being penetrate and in the right circunstances I discover it my tickilish and moves to orgasm. I needed a penis inside to show me the way and than couple of years I learned masturbate but with penetration principle as mounting with device inside and bang.

I first touch myself while penetrate by a partener suggestion to touch me..well not the same excitiment and plesure if my anal is being caressing. But I did feel my clits hard for the first time though..can be very strabge to many but there is not a need or crave to touch me. About oral is neutral but sometimes very inconfortable annoying and some men did hurt me by doing hard what I because of that advise for not go there if I feel they are not tender or dont know what they are doing. I have been avoiding attention there an only let when I feel a man is really craving and is experienced. But most parteners did not insist at all and went penetration and etc.

I do have a 'long' vagina not compact for a petit woman its stars in the north not center of my vulva...my clits have long hood and its hidden (I think he is a grower for sure) and my minor labia have skirt floppy going on...they are not 'close' as I see some women compact and organized. But even when I make an angle as me on top the sensation to me is all inside. And when I cum it triggered inside out. I do feel my walls and i do prefer thrusting than grinder, but I mix both.

Well, with all the women liberation going on and etc as much masturbatian can aliviate me I have to confess I'm not enjoy solitary sex, I love me in many ways but its not really my thing have sex with myself with toys and blah not really fun ... I'm a woman who really really needs and enjoy a penis inside, a lot. :borladuck: :fest30: :borladuck:

 

[viking1]

Which is precisely why this study will recieve so much criticism. Women would have selected mates based on physical prowess and intelligence to protect and feed her and her offspring. Whether or not he made her eyes roll back would hardly have been a deciding factor. The study also assumes that the females would be auditioning the whole tribe before making their decision. Wouldn't that mean all the females would have chosen the same male?

You could postulate that they chose protectors for their partners but still chose elephant boy to sire their offspring, but if that were the case and we were always selecting towards a larger penis it fails to explain the wide variety of sizes still present today.

It will be many years if ever that scientists will be able to explain how we got to where we are today. Most of these arguments have merit but still can't quite answer all the questions. We will never know the answer in our lifetimes...I am very sure of that.

The main thing is to get along, and learn enough about the opposite sex to have a good, happy relationship. I think we CAN do that if we want to.