Why Libertarianism is Better Than That Other Crap

[B_talltpaguy]

There's something fundamentally wrong about handing unlimited power over to an elite political class, giving next to no power to the masses, and expecting the situation to come out smelling of roses.

Yet this is what we expect from democracy, and when it all goes wrong the common reaction is to blame the moral compass of the individuals in charge. Well what did we think was going to happen?!! Even if all politicians were saints it wouldn't prevent them from destroying liberty and impoverishing citizens because the rules of the game ensure that all men aren't treated as equals.

This is why I favour a libertarian dispersal of power back down to the individual, once you hand power up to the top it's very hard to get back again. And you never know when you're going to need it.

So, you're actually a socialist who favors abolishing corporations, and redistributing the wealth of their owners to the masses... (afterall, 'political power' in this country is strictly denominated in dollars) Ok, now I at least understand where you're coming from.

 

[Speculator]

So, you're actually a socialist who favors abolishing corporations, and redistributing the wealth of their owners to the masses... (afterall, 'political power' in this country is strictly denominated in dollars) Ok, now I at least understand where you're coming from.

Well I'm obviously not a socialist as I stated in my post that I'm a libertarian, they're pretty much opposite ends of the spectrum. The mega-corporations aquire their power by lobbying government, so the answer is not to give government even more power: this would only serve to make it worse.

Instead of handing the money up to government, for them to hand it over to the corportations, and then in turn re-socialising that wealth via taxation or nationalisation wouldn't it make sense to just not give it to them in the first place?

It would certainly cut down on the paperwork.

 

[B_talltpaguy]

Well I'm obviously not a socialist as I stated in my post that I'm a libertarian, they're pretty much opposite ends of the spectrum. The mega-corporations aquire their power by lobbying government, so the answer is not to give government even more power: this would only serve to make it worse.

Exactly where do you think the 'power' you keep referring to comes from?

 

[Speculator]

Exactly where do you think the 'power' you keep referring to comes from?

The most important two are financial power and the monopolisation of force.

The state can take what it wants in taxes and back up any rule with the use of unlimited violence.

 

[B_talltpaguy]

So the source of all political power is money in this country... Ok, we certainly agree on that fundamental fact.

Next question... Define 'the state'... What is this entity you refer to specifically?

 

[Speculator]

So the source of all political power is money in this country... Ok, we certainly agree on that fundamental fact.

Next question... Define 'the state'... What is this entity you refer to specifically?

Well my preferred definition of a state is a law making entity that retains control over a territory. It's right to govern is also generally recognised and so won't be disputed under normal conditions.

Somalia is a territory for example, but because there's no stable legal framework in place many regard it as stateless.

Countries also require permanent populations and have the right to act as legal entities, this means they can enter into negotiations with other states (they're a bit like a companies), when member states break EU rules for example it's the country that gets fined, not the PM/President.

 

[canon]

Compare all the political parties to organized religion and you will be closer to the truth. It's all about brainwashing and being sucked into believe the b.s. that they spit out. Why would anyone cash in their IRA's, retirement accounts and bank accounts for a job that pays around a hundred grand a year? The reason, lifestyle, favors and a path to get rich off the system and the people that voted them in. All the new politicians think they can change the world but soon become a part of the problem. Libertatarians are no different than they others. The problem is that Americans are stupid and continue to put back into office the same assholes that are responsible for allowing the lobbyist, special interest groups, lawyers, preachers, banks and insurance companies to control what they do.

 

[B_Nick4444]

So you want to return the US to a pre-industrial agrarian society?

my personal preference would be a return to a subsistence economy, wherein human population numbers would remain so small as to no endange the earth's biomass sustaining capabilities

not realistic though, so the challenge would be to retain the Founder's vision within an industrial society

which is what you saw as a conscious effort at the turn of the twentieth century

if you go back through the repositories up until say the emergence of the pink decade of the 1930's, you will find speeches by corporate and governmental officials, and references in some of the film and literature to certain practices followed to maintain "the American way of life"

that phraseology is later lost during the upheaval of the Great Depression, then you have FDR laying the groundwork for the corporate-fascist state (that Obama is trying to complete), and which we were warned of by Republican President Eisenhower on his departure

 

[ECUBiBoy]

So, you're actually a socialist who favors abolishing corporations, and redistributing the wealth of their owners to the masses... (afterall, 'political power' in this country is strictly denominated in dollars) Ok, now I at least understand where you're coming from.

No, it is a grave mistake to think that power is exclusively about wealth. Power is about the use of aggressive force. I agree that this often manifests itself in wealth thievery (most notably, by a very small elite), but that would be an example of power - not the essence of it.

I would also suggest abandoning the Marxist view of class struggles. It's not the bourgeios versus the proletariat. It's the powerful versus the powerless (and it's still about individuals even if groups are involved). One should not be surprised that there is typically overlap between the rich the and powerful, but they are not co-dependent.

 

[B_Nick4444]

LMAO. Please explain what constitutes "the Obama Supreme Court". The Muslim Kenyan Socialist is now also a Corporatist? My, my, he wears a lot of funny hats, doesn't he? And the ACLU is now working on the behalf of international corporations?? You do realize that the Tea Party is corporate sponsored, don't you, and has been completely co-opted by the corporate Republican establishment - who are now throwing all their secret money there to buy hit pieces to bring down Democrats instead of making donations to the party? Is this Orwellian Newspeak you're spouting? Are you now conducting a deliberate disinformation campaign on their behalf? Or are you just drunk again?

it might help if libs learned something of history and political science before making utterances, but then if they did, they wouldn't be libs, now would they?

yes, the ACLU filed a brief urging the Supreme Court to find that corporations were "persons" under the law in regards to making political contributions, and so could not be circumscribed:

Citizens United v. Federal Election Commission - Google Scholar

and, its the Obama Supreme Court because it's following the same approach it would be, had all the appointments been his (and it did decide under his watch :biggrin1

so because the Tea Party has started to receive financial support from corporations, does that invalidate their claims and grievances?

does that mean that because the Negro Civil Rights movement was co-opted by the anti-American left, that the civil rights rights are therefore invalid?

no "Newspeak" dear fellow, I don't indulge in mass culture

 

[B_talltpaguy]

Well my preferred definition of a state is a law making entity that retains control over a territory.

Sounds good... So hopefully you're aware that the 'state' comes into physical reality exclusively through the actions of living, breathing human beings. Without human action, there is quite literally nothing. We agree, right?