Why many victims of rape never go to the police or turn in their accuser.

[dolfette]

and more men than you dare imagine would rape in the right situation.
they aren't some special breed of monster, different to the rest.
most rapists aren't lurking in an alley waiting to snatch your women.
they're your boss, your brother, your best mate and your son.
they're the cop on the corner and the teacher in the classroom.
they're giving in to temptation with that girl who's a little too drunk.
they're fed up of the girlfriend who hasn't put out.
they're sure that girl likes it a little forceful.
they're ignoring the knowledge that the woman they're on top of is too frozen with fear to fight them off, and choosing to take that as a yes.
they're not going to wake the wife up and ask first, because you argued and she'll just say no.

they're you, minus a moment of impulse control.

 

[B_HeartsAfire]

you're living in lala land, doll.

anyway...who says i let him get away with it?
i bought my time and had a rematch on my own terms.
i hear he'll never recover full use of his hand.
and, like him, i got away with it!

i DO know for certain that the law would've done nothing for me.
it was entirely my word against his...proof of sex is not proof of rape.
so i made my own justice. and it was sweet.

if you really want to prevent this shit then stop blaming victims.
start going into schools and educating boys.
do you know how many teenage guys think it's ok in some situations?

Uh what exactly did you do to him? Or did he wind up in prison and get his hand broken? I have heard of lots of men raping other men as date rape, and nobody reports it and sometimes it can even happen with a partner/boyfriend and nobody talks about that little dirty secret.

 

[galaxus]

I'm happy you got justice. But even tho I was quoting your post, I wasn't necessarily talking about you.

Education helps too, but the silence lets these bastards think that thier victims are too scared to do anything about. If they can rape one person and get away scott free, they'll keep on doin it.

What particularly do you think is "lala land" about what I said? Do you think talking about it won't help?

 

[galaxus]

and more men than you dare imagine would rape in the right situation.
they aren't some special breed of monster, different to the rest.
most rapists aren't lurking in an alley waiting to snatch your women.
they're your boss, your brother, your best mate and your son.
they're the cop on the corner and the teacher in the classroom.
they're giving in to temptation with that girl who's a little too drunk.
they're fed up of the girlfriend who hasn't put out.
they're sure that girl likes it a little forceful.
they're ignoring the knowledge that the woman they're on top of is too frozen with fear to fight them off, and choosing to take that as a yes.
they're not going to wake the wife up and ask first, because you argued and she'll just say no.

they're you, minus a moment of impulse control.

Correct. And they need to be convicted.

 

[dolfette]

Uh what exactly did you do to him? Or did he wind up in prison and get his hand broken? I have heard of lots of men raping other men as date rape, and nobody reports it and sometimes it can even happen with a partner/boyfriend and nobody talks about that little dirty secret.

i put something sharp through his arm.
sliced clean through part of the nerve.
two lots of microsurgery couldn't fix it.
it's not a major, crippling injury.
but it's enough for me.
he has cried and apologized.
i still detest him and would happily watch him die, but that would be a little extreme. the difference between me and him is that i know when to stop.

 

[B_HeartsAfire]

I'm happy you got justice. But even tho I was quoting your post, I wasn't necessarily talking about you.

Education helps too, but the silence lets these bastards think that thier victims are too scared to do anything about. If they can rape one person and get away scott free, they'll keep on doin it.

What particularly do you think is "lala land" about what I said? Do you think talking about it won't help?

I agree. People who have been rape victims should not be afraid to go to the police or a hospital and get checked out. Or maybe get put on some anti HIV drugs too. Also at hospitals there are counselors/therapists who will talk to people who have been raped and while doing this stuff may be embarrassing it is better than doing nothing and letting the motherfucker go free and being able to do it again to other people.

 

[Phil Ayesho]

All I can say to that is that what happened to me is what happened TO ME.

If I don't want to become a spectacle and suffer further humiliation beyond that humiliation I was given no choice in... well, that is my choice.

How dare you tell anyone what should or should not be acceptable in how they choose cope with trauma or loss.


Rape prosecutions can become like witchhunts, and how many innocent men have to be released form jail over mistaken identifications or bullshit allegations before you recognize that ZEALOTRY makes for just as much injustice as does the crime.

The only thing I can imagine that would be worse than being raped, would be to find out 20 years later that the person you fingered was innocent, and spent his life in jail suffering without just cause.


You want to stop rape? How about putting an END to the sexual schizophrenia that this puritanical culture inculcates in its children?


When you have done that, when women who get raped can be assured of no whispering behind their backs, or accusations to their faces, then maybe you can gently try recommending that every woman step forward and accuse somebody.

I appreciate your feelings... I applaud your intent... but telling people dealing with this kind of violation that by keeping it to themselves they are CULPABLE in the rapes of others... that is just another way of forcing someone to endure something they abhor.


We will never prevent all bad things from happening.


I know two female close friends who were raped.
One of them was tortured her whole life by the experience... it destroyed her ability to have relationships, destroyed her ability to cope with depression, she attempted suicide numerous times and was in therapy for 30 years... still is.
The other woman, who was actually more violently raped, seemed to shrug it off and move on with her life.

When asked how she got over it, she told me you never get "over it"... but that at one point about a year later she had to sit down and think it over... she had just gotten over two weeks of amoebic dysentery... and it struck her that her Rape had lasted less than an hour... while her illness had nearly killed her and she had suffered horribly for 15 days... and yet she had bounced back from that readily...

She told me that she decided, right then, that she would be damned if she was going to allow her whole life to be ruined by what amounted to a single horrific hour.

She decided her rapist was no different than any other affliction. No different than the tiny amoebas that had nearly killed her.


Now there you have it... two women, two rapes and two lives, one destroyed and the other only dinged...

And what was the difference between the two? it had nothing to do with prosecution, ( neither guy was ever identified ) The only difference was between one woman thinking it was the worst thing that happened to her... and the other realizing that it was just one thing that happened... that one bad hour could not erase a lifetime of good hours...

So much of what we suffer is determined by how we choose to perceive it.

By the fact that so few of us even realize we have a choice.

I would not tell anyone what they had to do in response... I would not try and guilt someone into pursuing a path that they find to be nothing but an extension of their suffering... a weak sequel to something they would rather put behind them.

 

[dolfette]

Correct. And they need to be convicted.

if you convicted every man who ever crossed the line, you'd be walking on pretty empty streets.

and

proof beyond reasonable doubt.
it is required for a conviction.
as it should be.
i wouldn't want to live in a world where it wasn't that way.
but in a situation where only two people know the truth, where it's her word against his, where they've had sex in the past or been seen kissing, then her word alone will never be enough reason to put a man in a cell.
just because false accusations are incredibly rare, doesn't mean we can throw that aside.
to imagine there's a magical way to sort the good from the evil without locking up the innocent and releasing the guilty? lala land!

it's the nature of the crime. proof isn't possible in a great many cases.

 

[B_HeartsAfire]

All I can say to that is that what happened to me is what happened TO ME.

If I don't want to become a spectacle and suffer further humiliation beyond that humiliation I was given no choice in... well, that is my choice.

How dare you tell anyone what should or should not be acceptable in how they choose cope with trauma or loss.


Rape prosecutions can become like witchhunts, and how many innocent men have to be released form jail over mistaken identifications or bullshit allegations before you recognize that ZEALOTRY makes for just as much injustice as does the crime.

The only thing I can imagine that would be worse than being raped, would be to find out 20 years later that the person you fingered was innocent, and spent his life in jail suffering without just cause.


You want to stop rape? How about putting an END to the sexual schizophrenia that this puritanical culture inculcates in its children?


When you have done that, when women who get raped can be assured of no whispering behind their backs, or accusations to their faces, then maybe you can gently try recommending that every woman step forward and accuse somebody.

I appreciate your feelings... I applaud your intent... but telling people dealing with this kind of violation that by keeping it to themselves they are CULPABLE in the rapes of others... that is just another way of forcing someone to endure something they abhor.


We will never prevent all bad things from happening.


I know two female close friends who were raped.
One of them was tortured her whole life by the experience... it destroyed her ability to have relationships, destroyed her ability to cope with depression, she attempted suicide numerous times and was in therapy for 30 years... still is.
The other woman, who was actually more violently raped, seemed to shrug it off and move on with her life.

When asked how she got over it, she told me you never get "over it"... but that at one point about a year later she had to sit down and think it over... she had just gotten over two weeks of amoebic dysentery... and it struck her that her Rape had lasted less than an hour... while her illness had nearly killed her and she had suffered horribly for 15 days... and yet she had bounced back from that readily...

She told me that she decided, right then, that she would be damned if she was going to allow her whole life to be ruined by what amounted to a single horrific hour.

She decided her rapist was no different than any other affliction. No different than the tiny amoebas that had nearly killed her.


Now there you have it... two women, two rapes and two lives, one destroyed and the other only dinged...

And what was the difference between the two? it had nothing to do with prosecution, ( neither guy was ever identified ) The only difference was between one woman thinking it was the worst thing that happened to her... and the other realizing that it was just one thing that happened... that one bad hour could not erase a lifetime of good hours...

So much of what we suffer is determined by how we choose to perceive it.

By the fact that so few of us even realize we have a choice.

I would not tell anyone what they had to do in response... I would not try and guilt someone into pursuing a path that they find to be nothing but an extension of their suffering... a weak sequel to something they would rather put behind them.

I'm not sure who you are flipping out and writing all of that to? I still stand by what I wrote that people who have been raped should go to a hospital and get checked out and go to the authorities. No need to get all defensive and flame me. There is such a thing as DNA testing and using this as evidence and that does not lie or finger innocent people, and witch hunts are not involved with it.

 

[dolfette]

<snip>.

shit...i find myself agreeing completely with the windbag.
*shudder*
putting my dislike of you aside, that was a bloody good post.

 

[Phil Ayesho]

they're you, minus a moment of impulse control.

While I agree in principle, I take exception to this.

I know a LOT of women, and very few who have been raped, but nearly every one of them has had the experience of being rescued by some man- one they knew or one the never even learned the name of.

The notion that EVERY man is a potential rapist is sexist, and verifiably untrue.

You are more likely to be rescued by a man than raped by a man... but we take for granted that some man will run into a burning building for you, will risk everything he has and could have to save a stranger.

I agree that a percentage of men can, pressed hard enough by circumstance, commit rape.
But I could not.
No man I call friend ever could, either.


And I am sorry, Dolf... but cold bloodedly Maiming the man who raped you makes you no better than he.

 

[galaxus]

I agree with everything you said except for this....

How dare you tell anyone what should or should not be acceptable in how they choose cope with trauma or loss.

If a guy murdered my brother, should I murder him or his brother to cope with my truma or loss?

I'm not saying that we all can be martyrs and we all can completely prevent this, but we all should do more...

 

[Phil Ayesho]

My retort was aimed at Galaxus' all bold post.

And Galaxus, I agree with this last post... I am not suggesting that we can not condemn vendetta or vengence, as is evident in my response to Dolfettes admission to maiming the man who attacked her.


That being said, however... I absolutely understand and have compassion for her reaction.

If someone hurt someone I loved, I would want to kill them... I don't know if I could trust myself to even be in a courtroom with them... I don't know if I would be able to NOT exact revenge....

But I can hope that I would not... it would not be something about myself that I would ever want to be true.

 

[Phil Ayesho]

And dolfette..
you don't like me?

I can't imagine that I can inspire such strong emotion in one who doesn't even know me...

Was it something I said?

 

[galaxus]

if you convicted every man who ever crossed the line, you'd be walking on pretty empty streets.

and

proof beyond reasonable doubt.
it is required for a conviction.
as it should be.
i wouldn't want to live in a world where it wasn't that way.
but in a situation where only two people know the truth, where it's her word against his, where they've had sex in the past or been seen kissing, then her word alone will never be enough reason to put a man in a cell.
just because false accusations are incredibly rare, doesn't mean we can throw that aside.
to imagine there's a magical way to sort the good from the evil without locking up the innocent and releasing the guilty? lala land!

it's the nature of the crime. proof isn't possible in a great many cases.

Dolfette, I'm not just talking about locking them up. I'm talking about taking away the shame and distress that comes with it. I'm pretty sure that the example that Phil gave about the woman who was suicidal and couldn't have a relationship was a victim of the shame too. I wonder if she had consouling.

She had no reason to be shameful. I believe we can stop that with conversation and education.

 

[dolfette]

I'm not sure who you are flipping out and writing all of that to? I still stand by what I wrote that people who have been raped should go to a hospital and get checked out and go to the authorities. No need to get all defensive and flame me. There is such a thing as DNA testing and using this as evidence and that does not lie or finger innocent people, and witch hunts are not involved with it.

most rapes are by boyfriends, husbands or recent exes.
most women know exactly who it was.

While I agree in principle, I take exception to this.

I know a LOT of women, and very few who have been raped, but nearly every one of them has had the experience of being rescued by some man- one they knew or one the never even learned the name of.

The notion that EVERY man is a potential rapist is sexist, and verifiable untrue.

You are more likely to be rescued by a man than raped by a man... but we take for granted that some man will run into a burning building for you, will risk everything he has and could have to save a stranger.

I agree that a percentage of men can, pressed hard enough by circumstance, commit rape.
But I could not.
No man I call friend ever could, either.


And I am sorry, Dolf... but cold blooded Maiming the man who raped you makes you no better than he.

i don't claim to be a nice person, doll.
people are animals. i'm an animal. he had a choice to back down. he chose not to. i feel no guilt and i'd do it again.

i don't say that every man is a potential rapist, but i do say that more are than anyone would be comfortable admitting to.
you think the guy who raped me wasn't known to all as a nice guy? wasn't highly educated, loved by my family and friends? didn't work for charity? wouldn't be the first man to run to the rescue if he saw a woman being hurt? because actually he was.

oh, and i believe the statistics are that around 1/3 of women will suffer a rape or sexual assault. and most of these are by men known to them.

 

[dolfette]

Dolfette, I'm not just talking about locking them up. I'm talking about taking away the shame and distress that comes with it. I'm pretty sure that the example that Phil gave about the woman who was suicidal and couldn't have a relationship was a victim of the shame too. I wonder if she had consouling.

She had no reason to be shameful. I believe we can stop that with conversation and education.

why do you assume it's about shame?

just another stereotype you're peddling there i'm afraid.

 

[Phil Ayesho]

( to doflette ) I disagree with those statistics... Like I said,if true than one third of all the women know should have been raped. They were not.

I know the source of that figure... it was the result of a questionnaire circulated among women at a major college.
It asked a bunch of NON obvious questions regarding sexual experience.

One question in particular was " have you ever had sex with a person and later regretted that it had happened? "
Every woman who answered yes to this question was counted as having been "raped".

As to being animals... yes... I agree with that...

But it gets even more complicated than that... the woman I know who was raped and never got over it? She actually had some culpability in her own rape. She was raised catholic and has guilt issues over her sexual feelings. These manifested as rape fantasies.
The man who raped her was a drug dealer she met in a park- she hung with the guy all day, taking free drugs and flirting with him... she went to dinner with him after, went to his room, and made out for an hour... and then, after all that, after getting fully undressed, THEN she told him no. The drug dealer flipped out... and raped her.

This woman had PUT HERSELF in a situation where she was almost certain to be raped... and had been driven to do this by sexual repression and her own fantasies.

However... she was traumatized by the rape. It was NOT exciting and fun as she had fantasized.
And a large part of her own inability to get over it was due to the catholic guilt she felt over he own contribution to the event.
And what really tortured her, what really plagued her for 30 years afterward was this... she STILL fantasized about rape.

It wasn't the rape that ruined her life... it was the fucked up psychosexual bullshit stemming from a culture of religious repression, guilt and condemnation.


And, just so you know... regardless your feelings of dislike for me, I rather enjoy your posts.

 

[dolfette]

phil, it was an english survey so i doubt we're talking about the same one...i'm far to lazy to look it up though.

and you only know that two women have admitted it to you.
and to themselves.
i went a whole decade before properly admitting it to myself, let alone telling anyone else.

...the fucked upness may have been for that reason in her case but it has to be clear that some women are destroyed even when they've done nothing anyone could consider as foolish or provocative. everyone copes differently. these things can't be predicted.

 

[Phil Ayesho]

It would be lovely to live in an ideal world but we don't, and until the world stands up and stops protecting these assholes to the point of destroying the lives of those already suffering, I fully support women not stepping up and saving what little they have left of themselves.

I agree. However, false allegations are as common as actual rape.
You can not assume veracity from every accuser without evidence because it hands unbridled power to one group.

I know one man, and have read of numerous others whose wives accused them falsely of child abuse in divorce litigation as a scheme to deny visitation, or increase child support.

One thing I am sure would be worse than a world where people commit such crimes as rape... and that is a world where the accusation of a crime is all it takes to convict a person.