Why men are gay...

[13788]

rainsfletcher: I've been reading through the last 4 or 5 topics, and it seems like much of it is devoted to being gay or having gay sex. This is fine with me, it's actually interesting to me as a streight guy.

As I was reading them, a couple of events came to mind, and I thought I'd share one of them with you.

First, as you know, I am in San Francisco 4 days a week on business. I was at the bar at SFO a few months ago, and a I hear two gay guys talking at the table right behind me. I have NO idea if this is stupid or valid or somewhere in between, but they were essentially talking about why men are gay. They said there are really only 2 reasons:

1. They are romantically attracted to men as opposed to women.
2. They are not romantically attracted to men, but love sex and are fed up with the women's shit.

I am not trying to perpetuate some stereotypes. I sincerely doubt it's even valid, but I thought this was interesting because it came from a gay man.

 

[rsny845]

Why is a man gay? One of those eternal questions. Some of us just know it. Alot of us deny it. It took me 25 years to come to terms with it. At long last I knew what those guys in Junior High School were feeling when they talked about girls. I knew it long before I admitted it. Once I was with a man I cared about, boy did I know it. So that's what sex is about. Wow. Not just some humping and an orgasm. Passion, delight, excitement, can't wait to touch him or have him touch me. Enjoy just being near him. Dare I say it? falling in love.

There is no reason. I don't believe its a choice. I'm incredibly happy knowing and understanding my attraction to men - to a man. And for me, the sex is WAY better.

 

[B_DoubleMeatWhopper]

I can't speak for all my gay brothers, but I'm gay because I have too much style to be straight!

 

[13788]

rainsfletcher: DWM! Damn It!!! We try so hard to diminish the perpetuation of stereotypes. Dozens of posts trying to get people to have an open mind and see people as people.

I am deeply troubled at your post. Are you saying that I don't have enough style to be gay?

Alright, I'm just kidding. I actually laughed very hard at your post.

There is actually an alternative, now. You can be straight and still have style. In such cases, you are a 'metrosexual'.

I found this out the hard way when the term was used to describe me by a girl who used to work for me. I'm still not completely sure on the definition, but I think it's along the lines of 'dresses and acts something like a gay guy, but has sex with women'....

 

[lacsap1]

I could reverse your question; Why are you straight ? Can you tell me.... <_<

As an Freudian believer and reading some psycho-analysis, many scientific theories will mostly refer to Freud and Kinsley claiming;

That infants are initially bisexual beings and that all new-born children have the same drives and aims. They are subsequently organized into masculine and feminine dispositions as a result of the constraints of society, most importantly those of reproduction. For Freud, the human personality is the product of the relationship between inner biologically determined drives and urges, and the external constraints of the physical world and society, like region, war/stress situation of updringing, education, "dominate father vs passive mother" c.q. "dominate mother vs passive father" and family upbringing, which in effect is a repression of desires. As small children, both sexes have activities broadly organized into oral, anal and phallic phases, and sexuality at this stage is predominantly active. It is only through the intervention of cultural complexes that both boy and girl undergo changes in the aims and activities associated with this phallic phase.

Alfred Kinsey told us that the world is not made up of two different kinds of people, gay and straight. Kinsey was not the first or the last to observe that "homosexual" is a label society has invented to stigmatize and control the behavior. He repeatedly condemned the practice of labelling people homosexual. The classification of sexual behavior as heterosexual, or homosexual, is, therefore, unfortunate if it suggests that only different types of persons seek out or accept each kind of sexual activity. There is nothing known in the anatomy or physiology of sexual response and orgasm which distinguishes heterosexual, or homosexual reactions. It would clarify our thinking if the terms could be dropped completely out of our vocabulary.

And now an important message for all homophobic conservative idiots;

If all persons with any trace of homosexual history, or those who were predominantly homosexual, were eliminated from the population today, there is NO REASON for believing that the incidence of the homosexual in the next generation would be materially reduced. The homosexual has been a significant part of human sexual activity since the dawn of history, primarily because it is an expression of capacities that are basic in the human animal.

===========
"It may be an academically interesting puzzle as to why we are gay...but it is much more interesting and important to find out why people are homophobic." -Prof. Peter Nardi, GLAAD/LA

 

[13788]

gwinea2000:

I could reverse your question; Why are you straight ? Can you tell me....

Yes. I was born that way. And, it is my opinion (and the opinion of most gays/lesbians that I have the pleasure of knowing) that they have an ingrained biological preference as well.

As an Freudian believer and reading some psycho-analysis, many scientific theories will mostly refer to Freud and Kinsley claiming;

Very few actual scientists will use Freud for anything more than character studies. As influential as he is/was, he&#39;s regarded as, well, wacked out of his head. Psychologists (who are NOT scientists, btw) DO utilize him to a significant degree.

They are subsequently organized into masculine and feminine dispositions as a result of the constraints of society, most importantly those of reproduction.

I disagree almost entirely. Testosterone, estrogen and other internal chemical balances control much of our personas. (I say &#39;almost&#39; because I believe environment does play a role, but it is a secondary one.) I also disagree that an individual&#39;s homosexual preferences are concomitant with reversed &#39;masculine and feminine dispositions.&#39; I know several VERY masculine gay men, and VERY feminine lesbians. While there may be a higher instance of homosexuality in effeminate men or butch women, it is simply a correlation and not a defining characteristic or predictor.

Alfred Kinsey told us that the world is not made up of two different kinds of people, gay and straight. Kinsey was not the first or the last to observe that "homosexual" is a label society has invented to stigmatize and control the behavior. He repeatedly condemned the practice of labelling people homosexual. The classification of sexual behavior as heterosexual, or homosexual, is, therefore, unfortunate if it suggests that only different types of persons seek out or accept each kind of sexual activity. There is nothing known in the anatomy or physiology of sexual response and orgasm which distinguishes heterosexual, or homosexual reactions. It would clarify our thinking if the terms could be dropped completely out of our vocabulary.

Good Luck.

And now an important message for all homophobic conservative idiots;

If all persons with any trace of homosexual history, or those who were predominantly homosexual, were eliminated from the population today, there is NO REASON for believing that the incidence of the homosexual in the next generation would be materially reduced. The homosexual has been a significant part of human sexual activity since the dawn of history, primarily because it is an expression of capacities that are basic in the human animal.

First of all, no one has suggested eradicating all homosexuals from the face of the earth. Secondly, for someone who condemns the use of the word &#39;homosexual,&#39; you certainly use it an awful lot.

 

[Pecker]

If I don&#39;t think about it I find that I live with the concept of straight, gay and bi quite well. I&#39;ve been around LPSG for a long time now and this is the first topic which has really made me think about the subject.

I&#39;ve no experience except heterosexual upon which to base my feeings but it occurs to me that apparently some men (and women) have been granted an exception to Darwin&#39;s Theory. Survival of the species depends on sexual union between male and female.

The generally accepted percentage of gays in the total population is around 10%.

My goodness, what in the world would happen to the species if that ratio were reversed to 90% gay? Would only 10% then be left to propagate the species?

It&#39;s kind of like trying to fathom the size of the universe. I get a headache trying.

Thoughts?

 

[13788]

rainsfletcher:

I could reverse your question; Why are you straight ? Can you tell me....

I&#39;ll answer this question in the context of the 2 proposals set forth by the gay guys at the bar.

I am straight because I am romantically and sexually attracted to women as opposed to men. You logic fiends out there are already hitting &#39;add reply&#39; - but wait. I answered that question this way on purpose.

I am straight because I am straight. I don&#39;t know anything else. I&#39;ve never been attracted to men, romantically or sexually, so I&#39;m unlikely to know anything else.

It just is what it is. As Popeye once said "I am what I am".

And I&#39;m with Pecker. This has never been a problem for me. I have friends that are gay, work with people that are gay, have been hit on by gay men without feeling anger or humiliation. People is just people, right?

 

[KinkGuy]

Originally posted by gwinea2000@Jun 3 2004, 04:29 PM

First of all, no one has suggested eradicating all homosexuals from the face of the earth.

Hummmmm, not so sure. Anyone talked to George Bush and Ashcroft today? :lol: B)

 

[lacsap1]

Originally posted by gwinea2000@Jun 3 2004, 10:29 PM
First of all, no one has suggested eradicating all homosexuals from the face of the earth. Secondly, for someone who condemns the use of the word &#39;homosexual,&#39; you certainly use it an awful lot.

Yes. I was born that way.

That&#39;s to easy, why are you born that way? By what determined your sexual preference, any internal or external factors like region, war/stress situation of updringing, conservative education, "dominate father vs passive mother" c.q. "dominate mother vs passive father" and family religious upbringing.

Ofcourse we would probably never will find out, and why most we?
There are 1000&#39;s of theories out there, you believe what ever works most for yourself or in your own situation. I will keep it on Freud & Kinsley, even if they where wacked out of there heads in there times. Probably even not just for the scientific theories and studies they conducted as for being one of great general public studies presented around the world. Ofcourse in those days, full of homophobics and other unknowness people about the matter, given a "reason" at that very moment was needed and sounding very plausible, it gave the world a more forgiven excuse of being homosexual. Also it&#39;s not the word "homosexual" I condemn, it&#39;s purely a scientific term. It&#39;s probably just that the society has invented it just a small 100 years ago to stigmatize and control this "unknown" behavior. Why not change our classification of sexual behavior in standard Bisexual. No questions asked, no discrimination, no (youth) suicides, no homophobics ect ect ect. All love and peace. I known, it&#39;s an utopian scheme but by believing Freuds theories of all born BI it works for me. So the question will stay, what do you believe ? <_<

 

[MisterMark]

It&#39;s interesting to look at the profiles of members here at the LPSG and see how many member do not call themselves "100% heterosexual" or "100% homosexual". It&#39;s a reminder that very few of us fit neatly into a "box" that society creates for us.

If you&#39;re inclined to share your sexual orientation with us, please go to your profile and fill in some of the information requested. It makes the LPSG even more interesting than it already is.

 

[FieldRatt9]

I had a friend of 15 years. We knew each other from school and just from being from the same town. We wound up working in the same building so we started hanging out. We became good friends but didn&#39;t really go out drinking much (male bonding). One day he says he&#39;s gay and HIV positive. I was shocked&#33; So I had to ask what made him gay? There was no significant event in his life or turning point...one day he just knew he was gay he said. I was still his friend when he died of AIDS. I lost a very good friend but what really stands out is his statement that he "just knew" one day. Is there a test for that??? :huh:

 

[jonb]

Rather simple: When they&#39;re born, they say "Eww . . . I&#39;m never going back there&#33;"

People have advocated wiping homosexuals off the face of the planet in the past: Kertbeny, who coined the term, was the first to suggest sterilization. And of course we all know what the pink triangle stands for.

About Darwin, the latest theory is kin selection. What&#39;s kin selection, you ask? Relying solely on blood relatives, calculate alter&#39;s relationship to ego as X degrees of kinship. Now, the coefficient of kinship is 1/2^X. (Monozygotic twins are an exception: Their coefficient of kinship is 1.) If the coefficient of kinship multiplied by the benefit to alter outweighs the degree to which the action handicaps ego, kin selection occurs. Unfortunately, when factoring in kin selection, we can come up with sociobiological explanations for EVERYTHING. But there&#39;s no evidence that sociobiology even exists, so all sociobiological theories are just oral masturbation.

I don&#39;t necessarily believe in Freud; the whole Oedipal/Electra probably tells us more about Freud than about the typical patient, and Freud never even bothered with sibling incest. And the whole primal family thing is pure ethnocentrism.

 

[B_RoysToy]

Since we are all born sociable people with the ability to &#39;like&#39; people of both genders, our sexual orientation depends on the degree in which we &#39;like&#39; one sex over the other. I like your scale, Mark, because it offers a &#39;box&#39; for all degrees. During many years of my 29 year marriage to a female, I was able to perform as the male I was, but it was never with the demanding drive that would have accompanied sex with a male. It took a strong determination and an equally strong desire to be something which I wasn&#39;t, but I pulled it off with the help of God for quite a few of those 29 years.

This is a subject which I could spend hours, even days, discussing with a receptive, understanding person and I know many of you on this site are just that kind of people. There definitely is a need for this site and you are to be thanks, Mark.

^_^ Luke

 

[madame_zora]

Well, I gotta give props to DMW for the best answer on the post&#33; I think, like so many things, it is far more important to know yourself and act accordingly than to analyze the "why" factor. It is unlikely we&#39;ll be able to solve the questions that have been puzzling mankind for ages on here, but I think there&#39;s a great chance we&#39;ll be able to impact each other&#39;s lives in a positive way as far as self-acceptance and confidence go. Having many friends both gay and straight, I have found the answers to "why" in sexual orintation to be as varied as the individuals I ask. Guess it means ppl are ppl....a faint memory of a Depeche Mode song creeps in...

 

[D_Humper E Bogart]

Yeah, reasoning WHY we like to have a nice shag at all will baffle people for ages, especially when there&#39;s such a range of fetishes around.

For me, I just "go with the flow". I think that even the whole gay/straight thing is a bit blurry, there&#39;s different tastes for men and women, with some blokes fancying masculine (in form) women and some women fancying feminine (in look) men.

I refuse to cuss metrosexuals, despite the temptation.

For me, it seems like we&#39;re all built with "fetishes" for want of a better word (and yes, fancying boobs is a fetish). But perhaps we all are fortunate in that in our society, we are realtively free to act our feelings out.

So in short, maybe it&#39;s not just gay/straight, rather than what you&#39;re turned on by?

After all, it would explain why everyone can appreciate a fine wang here&#33;

JonB, I suppose in short, you&#39;re trying to say the DMW doesn&#39;t "deserve" to have kids?
Hmmm, there goes the chance for another fine ass..

 

[D_Martin van Burden]

This subject has come up quite a bit at the restaurant lately -- well, actually, a few people thought this one kid I trained for a day was batting for the pink team, and he let off such a confusing vibe that no one could peg him for sure. Worse still, he was very shy and introverted and he hardly said two words to anyone. As crude a means it is to test sexuality, verbal cues and mannerisms give some people away...

He didn&#39;t really interact with anyone. One day, I went in during lunch to pick up my schedule and a bartender asked me if I thought he was gay. It struck me; I didn&#39;t pick up a "vibe" from him but I wasn&#39;t consciously trying to process that either. So, being the methodological prick that I am, I asked a few people working that day what they thought. (Turns out this conversation had already been around the gossip mill quite a few times.)

The bulldyke lesbian in the kitchen said he was gay, hands down, and so did a couple of servers because, any time that tried to be friendly or talk to him, he&#39;d stiffen up. A few other servers were as struck as I was; rather, they didn&#39;t get that impression of him either. I reconvened and said that while I wasn&#39;t 100% sure about his sexuality, if he were gay, it wouldn&#39;t surprise me. I supposed I left it at that because, perhaps, he may be closeted and would prefer to keep those details to himself.

I can relate to that.

Naturally, this conversation spun into a joking jest toward most of the guys in the restaurant. There were a few of us talking at our "break table" one afternoon and, while I was thinking about it, I turned toward this other kid who I had once trained and felt a vibe and I told him what I thought. Again, perhaps a bad cue, but I said, "Dude, when I first started working with you, I thought you were giving me a vibe." He perked up and I replied, "I dunno. You say things that I wouldn&#39;t expect a run-of-the-mill straight dude to say." One time he looked at my hair and asked if I did something different with it -- which I didn&#39;t, but he nodded in favor anyway. Recently, he gave me a studied look and said that my Greek features were really prominent and that they looked good.

I know, I know. Coming from the guy who himself is someone who would probably say those things, why would I peg someone else as gay &#39;cause of it? Um, well. Shit. I&#39;m still struck with his comfort in saying those things; the gay thing is probably inconsequential.

And then, when one of the girls finally turned the question around on me, rather than going into this big diatribe about norms and behaviors and experiences in college, I just borrowed a line from Coyote Ugly: "I played in the minor leagues, but I never went pro."

I was more candid with that bartender at the beginning of this story: "Guys are really only good for some occasional head, and that&#39;s about it..."

 

[Pecker]

Originally posted by DeeBlackthorne@Jun 4 2004, 11:42 AM
He didn&#39;t really interact with anyone.

I hired a kid like that once.

It turned out that his shyness was hiding the fact that he stammered seriously and didn&#39;t want to be made fun of.

I found that if I paired him up with the most talkative employees his silence increased their production manyfold. I was glad to have him around&#33; ^_^