Why should McCain be president ?

[B_Nick4444]

as far as it being relevant to Obama, still a relevant question, given his background

 

[D_Davy_Downspout]

basic Religion 101

Then you shouldn't have a problem finding some sources, should you? You made the point, the burden of proof rests on you.

Christians have committed all kinds of atrocities in the name of their religion. As have most religions.

Again, if your opinion is supported by all those different people, I'd love to see some citations here, as opposed to you just shooting your mouth off and us trusting you. It's an appeal to authority and popularity though, both logical fallacies. They teach us that in our little red mao reference as well.

It's also easier if you want to reply in one post, but whatever.

 

[uniqueusername]

Blah blah blah STANDARD trite neo-con Republican marketing slogans. So pedestrian.

Everything that happens to you is YOUR fault. The plant closed thanks to globalization and you're unemployed. That is your fault you know.

You didn't try hard enough in high school or college and don't have any marketable skills, so you can't find work. That's your fault.

The mine caved in because the government regulators were AWAL and that is your fault you know.

You chose to become a miner and, in so doing, accepted the risks that come with that job. You were also paid more than similarly educated or talented people because of those risks. That's your fault.

The government let the mortgage industry go largely unregulated and now your home is being foreclosed and that's your fault too. Never mind the government now says 'Opps we need new regulations'.

You bit off more than you could chew with a mortgage you weren't sure you could pay off. That's your fault.

Ahh but wait Bear Stearns is about to go under and it's TOO big to fail and the government comes in with billions to save the Wall Street Masters of The Universe. No fault rescue here.

I agree with you here. Who appropriated the money to bail out Bear Stearns? Hint: they're the party in control of Congress right now.

Here are a few reasons to vote for McCain:

-His immigration plan. While I'm against illegal immigration and want the borders closed, I respect the fact that most immigrants are here to work and are willing to do jobs that Americans won't. John McCain would secure the borders to stop new illegals from coming in. He would also put into place measures to legalize or document the ones already here and put them on a path to citizenship. He has shown his willingness to tackle this issue during his tenure in the Senate, even over the objections of the Bush administration and some of the Republican Party.

-His energy plan. I'm very enthusiastic about his support for nuclear energy, which will carry us into the future and, hopefully, supply most of our power. At the same time, he supports offshore and domestic drilling, which will help to lower the price of oil and decrease out dependence on foreign oil. A "windfall" profits tax is an awful idea, because the oil companies will simply pass the cost of the tax onto consumers. Exxon-Mobil may be making "record" profits, but that is only because the company itself is so massive. The annual profit margin is something like 8%, which is low compared to the profits many industries enjoy. Exxon-Mobil may be the largest privately-held oil company, but it is dwarfed by the state-run oil companies of countries like Venezuela and Saudi Arabia. Note that Obama has no plans to tax them, even though they have much more influence in setting the price on a barrel of oil.

-His military service and imprisonment in Vietnam. Alone, this would not qualify him to be President, but his conduct while imprisoned did say a lot about his character. Because of his family connections, he would have been able to be released from prison, but he refused until all soldiers who had been imprisoned before him were released. In total, he spent about 5 and a half years in a Vietnamese prison. He also sustained serious injuries during that time (for instance, he can't lift his arms above his head). Obama's three years as a "community organizer" (whatever that is) don't even compare.

-He's against pork-barrel spending. Every year, Congress wastes hundreds of billions of dollars on pet projects in the representatives' home districts. The President submits a balanced budget every year, but it becomes bloated and unbalanced because every single Congressman (even many Republicans) wants to add a ton of funding for projects important to the people who vote for them. If we're ever going to balance the budget, we need to put a stop to this. I'm not sure McCain would be able to do much about it, but at least he's talking about it. Not only has Obama not addressed this issue; he hasn't expressed any desire to balance the budget.

There you go. I've given four strong reasons to vote for McCain with comparisons to Obama's positions on the same issues. It's true that this election is more a referendum on Barack Obama than a true contest between two candidates (much like the 2004 election was about Bush, not Kerry), but I've posted some reasons to vote FOR McCain, not AGAINST Obama. I would be happy to debate these and other issues with people who post intelligent responses.

 

[D_Davy_Downspout]

I agree with you here. Who appropriated the money to bail out Bear Stearns? Hint: they're the party in control of Congress right now.

I agree with this point, but please look up "keating 5" with regards to McCain.

Here are a few reasons to vote for McCain:

-His immigration plan. While I'm against illegal immigration and want the borders closed, I respect the fact that most immigrants are here to work and are willing to do jobs that Americans won't. John McCain would secure the borders to stop new illegals from coming in. He would also put into place measures to legalize or document the ones already here and put them on a path to citizenship. He has shown his willingness to tackle this issue during his tenure in the Senate, even over the objections of the Bush administration and some of the Republican Party.

Not sure if he's for or against the fence boondoggle, but otherwise I like the sound of this.

-His energy plan. I'm very enthusiastic about his support for nuclear energy, which will carry us into the future and, hopefully, supply most of our power. At the same time, he supports offshore and domestic drilling, which will help to lower the price of oil and decrease out dependence on foreign oil. A "windfall" profits tax is an awful idea, because the oil companies will simply pass the cost of the tax onto consumers. Exxon-Mobil may be making "record" profits, but that is only because the company itself is so massive. The annual profit margin is something like 8%, which is low compared to the profits many industries enjoy. Exxon-Mobil may be the largest privately-held oil company, but it is dwarfed by the state-run oil companies of countries like Venezuela and Saudi Arabia. Note that Obama has no plans to tax them, even though they have much more influence in setting the price on a barrel of oil.

How do you explain his inaction on alternative energy? He's missed 8 votes, including the most recent, to invest and solar and wind power. Including one where he was actually in his office, in the same building. Obama missed the last one too, but he voted for it 3 previous times. I agree on the nuclear part. Offshore drilling is already allowed just not the "easy" close drilling. And the oil companies aren't using it. It's currently cheaper to buy foreign oil than to drill for our own, and until that changes, they'll continue to not use the land they're allowed.
Furthermore, what makes you think that drilling our own would reduce the price. Demand for oil is fairly inelastic, increased state-side supply wouldn't necessarily affect it. They'll likely charge only slightly lower than the foreign oil, because people will pay.

-His military service and imprisonment in Vietnam. Alone, this would not qualify him to be President, but his conduct while imprisoned did say a lot about his character. Because of his family connections, he would have been able to be released from prison, but he refused until all soldiers who had been imprisoned before him were released. In total, he spent about 5 and a half years in a Vietnamese prison. He also sustained serious injuries during that time (for instance, he can't lift his arms above his head). Obama's three years as a "community organizer" (whatever that is) don't even compare.

You're being disengenuous here. I could say "McCain was a terrible pilot who lost 5 planes and only kept his status because he was related to an admiral" to dismiss his public service, but I won't, because he did go through terrible things. Obama worked as a civil rights lawyer, a community organizer, state legislator, federal legislator, and constitutional law professor. He was also the first black president of the Harvard Law Review. That's a decent career so far, but entirely different from McCain's. It just depends on what career you like.

-He's against pork-barrel spending. Every year, Congress wastes hundreds of billions of dollars on pet projects in the representatives' home districts. The President submits a balanced budget every year, but it becomes bloated and unbalanced because every single Congressman (even many Republicans) wants to add a ton of funding for projects important to the people who vote for them. If we're ever going to balance the budget, we need to put a stop to this. I'm not sure McCain would be able to do much about it, but at least he's talking about it. Not only has Obama not addressed this issue; he hasn't expressed any desire to balance the budget.

Blatantly false, he is on record saying he intends to balance the budget, but he doesn't think it will be possible in less than 2 years. He also plans to raise taxes, something McCain flip-flops his stance on. How can you balance the budget without raising taxes, esp with Iraq? Also, I take it you have never heard of the Coburn-Obama Transparency Act?

There you go. I've given four strong reasons to vote for McCain with comparisons to Obama's positions on the same issues.

You didn't really give Obama's side on immigration. Though I'm not entirely surpised you left it out, given that he's cosponsored bills with McCain on immigration.

 

[B_Morning_Glory]

Come to Montreal! We have lots of fun here!:smile:

i think i will. ty for the invite.
hubby had a uncle that used to live in canada. he wants to live there. i never been to canada.

 

[mista geechee]

(1) to say that subscribing to Islam would not be an issue is disingenuous

it was under the banner of Islam that an attack was launched on 11 September

So I guess that makes all Muslims bad right?

it was Muslims world-wide (including here in the USA) that celebrated the event

it was Muslims here in the USA that so admired the event they attempted to stage events similar to that event

So then we should frown upon all Muslims right? But that means we should frown upon all the Christians and Catholics since no one's hands are clean.

published studies of (mostly black) converts to Islam here in the USA convert to Islam, not because of theological concordance, but because of the anti-American aspect of the exponents of that ideology)

(2) By no means is it the same God they worship as the God of Christianity

Actually, by all means they are the same "God". The Qu'ran makes direct references to Jesus and Moses to name a few. Mohammed is simply considered the last prophet of Allah, Allah being the Arabic word for "God".

as Rilke might put it, the way you use your God makes him a different God than the way I use mine

the God of Christianity was formed over thousands of years as his worshipers prayed first for their material safety and well-being, and then questioned what was the right thing to do ... over generations, theses considerations were collected, written, and discussed, then with further soul-searching compiled as "the Word"

Islam arrived after all this, and found it's genesis in a sect that sought to break away from the larger Jewish society and hierarchy ... so, from the beginning, sought to distinguish itself from the larger group, demonizing the larger group as part of the rationale for the division ... to support and authenticate the division, they concocted the prophet Mohammed ... so unlike Judaism, or Christianity, the basic thrust is ant-Judaism ... as can be seen from the teachings that have been the object of many communications from the USA State Department to Riyadh ... many times the USA has had to advise Riyadh to stop the anti-Jewish rhetoric

Actually the Qu'ran considers all religions to be children of Allah. Of course, you will probably ignore that part because is would kill your sophism. See, what you're tryin to do is take radical Islam and say that is the basis of ALL of Islam. Which, of course, is ridiculous. You're trying to make them sound like David Koresh and the Dividian branch or Jim Jones and his "People's Church"- 2 Christian cults that justified their ctions with Christianity.

(3) the question of whether Obama is or is not Muslim, is thus relevant, but probably moot

But anyway, what's your beef with Muslims ?

 

[uniqueusername]

I agree with this point, but please look up "keating 5" with regards to McCain.

The Ethics Committee ruled that the involvement of McCain in the scheme was also minimal, and he too was cleared of all charges against him.[18][17] McCain was criticized by the Committee for exercising "poor judgment" when he met with the federal regulators on Keating's behalf.[6] The report also said that McCain's "actions were not improper nor attended with gross negligence and did not reach the level of requiring institutional action against him....Senator McCain has violated no law of the United States or specific Rule of the United States Senate."

How do you explain his inaction on alternative energy? He's missed 8 votes, including the most recent, to invest and solar and wind power. Including one where he was actually in his office, in the same building. Obama missed the last one too, but he voted for it 3 previous times.

Why should the government have to invest in alternative energy? If alternative energy will truly replace oil as promised, it should be able to stand up on its own and find investors without needing government subsidies. Bear in mind we're trying to reduce the deficit as well (more on this later).

Offshore drilling is already allowed just not the "easy" close drilling. And the oil companies aren't using it. It's currently cheaper to buy foreign oil than to drill for our own, and until that changes, they'll continue to not use the land they're allowed.
Furthermore, what makes you think that drilling our own would reduce the price. Demand for oil is fairly inelastic, increased state-side supply wouldn't necessarily affect it. They'll likely charge only slightly lower than the foreign oil, because people will pay.

Lower is still lower. Even so, as long as we have a source of domestic oil, there's no reason not to use it.

Besides, you said (correctly) that the demand for oil is fairly static. People have to drive, after all. McCain's belief is that by increasing supply and drilling for our own oil, we can bring down the price.

You're being disengenuous here. I could say "McCain was a terrible pilot who lost 5 planes and only kept his status because he was related to an admiral" to dismiss his public service, but I won't, because he did go through terrible things. Obama worked as a civil rights lawyer, a community organizer, state legislator, federal legislator, and constitutional law professor. He was also the first black president of the Harvard Law Review. That's a decent career so far, but entirely different from McCain's. It just depends on what career you like.

That's entirely correct, but the fact remains that Obama has had a very privileged existence from the get-go. McCain did too, but he has experienced extreme suffering that Obama has not in the service of his country.

Also, the treatment of detainees in Guantanamo Bay is an issue in this election. McCain, having experienced torture himself, is uniquely qualified to decide this issue.

Blatantly false, he is on record saying he intends to balance the budget, but he doesn't think it will be possible in less than 2 years. He also plans to raise taxes, something McCain flip-flops his stance on. How can you balance the budget without raising taxes, esp with Iraq? Also, I take it you have never heard of the Coburn-Obama Transparency Act?

You can balance the budget by cutting spending or raising taxes. It's actually pretty easy: you don't spend more money than you have. Tax increases are a bad idea with the economy in its current state. Budget decreases are much better: they don't harm the economy, they don't force the government to borrow money, AND they decrease the size and scope of government.

Obama supporters: You like to talk about John McCain's admitted lack of experience in economics, but Obama has about as much experience as McCain does (if not less). At least McCain is willing to admit that he is weak on economic issues. This also speaks to McCain's character somewhat: part of being a good leader is recognizing your weaknesses and finding people who can either help you improve or give you advice. Two of his top campaign advisors are Meg Whitman, founder of eBay, and Carly Fiorina, the former CEO of Hewlett-Packard. They should be able to give him plenty of help in economics.

Obama has admitted no such thing, yet his tax and energy plans clearly betray his lack of economic knowledge.

By the way, Iraq is a temporary expense. Unlike Social Security, Medicare, or our other several hundred billion per year programs, we will eventually stop spending money in Iraq. In fact, we might eventually turn a profit if we can stabilize the government there and collect some of their oil revenue. Nevertheless, the money we've spent in Iraq doesn't even begin to account for the massive debt this country is in. That is almost entirely the fault of expensive programs like Medicare.

You didn't really give Obama's side on immigration. Though I'm not entirely surpised you left it out, given that he's cosponsored bills with McCain on immigration.

I haven't heard him talk about it at all, but I'm sure his position on immigration (like ALL of his positions) lines up exactly with that of the Democratic Party. Traditionally, they've supported an open border policy.

 

[B_Nick4444]

From Daniel Pipes | Original article available at: Confirmed: Barack Obama Practiced Islam - article by Daniel Pipes
Confirmed: Barack Obama Practiced Islam

by Daniel Pipes
FrontPageMagazine.com
January 7, 2008
In a recent analysis, "Was Barack Obama a Muslim?" I surveyed available evidence and found it suggests "Obama was born a Muslim to a non-practicing Muslim father and for some years had a reasonably Muslim upbringing under the auspices of his Indonesian step-father." In response, David Brock's organization, Media Matters for America (MMfA), which calls itself a "progressive research and information center dedicated to comprehensively monitoring, analyzing, and correcting conservative misinformation in the U.S. media," has criticized one of my sources of information.
MMfA contends in "Daniel Pipes relied on disputed LA Times article to revive Obama-Muslim falsehood," that "key aspects" of a March 16, 2007, Los Angeles Times article I quoted were later challenged by another newspaper account, "History of schooling distorted," by Kim Barker in the Chicago Tribune on March 25.
Falsehood? That's a strong word.
To assess MMfA's claim, let's review its preferred article and examine what Barker has to say on four topics related to Obama's Indonesian years, 1967-71:

1. His attendance at a Catholic school;
2. His attendance at a public school;
3. His step-father, Lolo Soetoro; and
4. His friend, Zulfan Adi.

To start with, about the Catholic school, Fransiskus Strada Asisia, which Obama attended 1967-70 (words in square brackets are added by me):

Interviews with dozens of former classmates, teachers, neighbors and friends show that Obama was not a regular practicing Muslim when he was in Indonesia, despite being listed as a Muslim on the registration form for the Catholic school, Strada Asisia, where he attended 1st through 3rd grades. At the time, the school most likely registered children based on the religion of their fathers, said [Israella Pareira] Darmawan, Obama's former [1st-grade] teacher. Because Soetoro was a Muslim, Obama was listed as a Muslim, she said.
The enrollment form from the Catholic school, which has been cited as evidence that Obama was a Muslim in Indonesia [including by the Los Angeles Times], also was rife with errors. It listed Obama as an Indonesian, listed his previous school incorrectly and failed to list his mother, Ann, at all.
​

Barack Obama with his public school classmates in Indonesia.
About Obama's time at a public elementary school, 1970-71, variously known as the Sekolah Dasar Nasional Menteng No. 1 or the Basuki school, Barker writes:

When Obama attended 4th grade in 1971, Muslim children spent two hours a week studying Islam, and Christian children spent those two hours learning about the Christian religion.
​

During a recent visit to this public school, Barker found that

Weekly religious classes are required for all students, whether Muslims, Christians or Hindus, under the government curriculum. A new shiny mosque is in the corner of the courtyard. "The Muslims learn about Islam, prayer and religious activity," said Hardi Priyono, the vice principal for curriculum. "And for the Christians, during the religious class, they also have a special room teaching Christianity. It's always been like that."
​

About Obama's step-father, Lolo Soetoro and his religiosity, Barker writes:

In their first neighborhood, Obama occasionally followed his stepfather to the mosque for Friday prayers, a few neighbors said. But Soetoro usually was too busy working, first for the Indonesian army and later for a Western oil company. "Sometimes Lolo went to the mosque to pray, but he rarely socialized with people," said Fermina Katarina Sinaga, Obama's 3rd-grade teacher at the Catholic school, who lived near the family. "Rarely, Barry [a nickname for Barack] went to the mosque with Lolo."
​

Barker learned from his friends and family that Lolo Soetoro, who died in 1987, was "much more of a free spirit than a devout Muslim" and "hardly the image of a pious Muslim."

His nephew, Sonny Trisulo, 49, said Soetoro always liked women and alcohol. One of his health problems was a failing liver. "He loved drinking, was a smart and warm person, the naughtiest one in the family," Trisulo recalled.
​

As for Zulfan Adi, cited in the Los Angeles Times piece:

Zulfan Adi, a former neighborhood playmate of Obama's who has been cited in news reports as saying Obama regularly attended Friday prayers with Soetoro, told the Tribune he was not certain about that when pressed about his recollections. He only knew Obama for a few months, during 1970, when his family moved to the neighborhood.
​

Does any of the above information from the Chicago Tribune article refute my analysis, as MMfA contends? It raises questions about two details in the Los Angeles Times account (the accuracy of the Catholic school's registration form and the reliability of Zulfan Adi as a source on Obama). But on the larger issue of Obama's religious practices during his Jakarta years, it confirms the Times account. Note in particular three excerpts from Barker's article:

• "Interviews with dozens of former classmates, teachers, neighbors and friends show that Obama was not a regular practicing Muslim when he was in Indonesia" – implying he was an irregularly practicing Muslim.
• "Obama occasionally followed his stepfather to the mosque for Friday prayers, a few neighbors said" – confirming that he did pray in the mosque.
• "Obama's 3rd-grade teacher at the Catholic school, who lived near the family [said that] ‘Rarely, Barry went to the mosque with Lolo'" – confirming that Obama attended mosque services.

All this matters, for if Obama once was a Muslim, he is now what Islamic law calls a murtadd (apostate), an ex-Muslim converted to another religion who must be executed. Were he elected president of the United States, this status, clearly, would have large potential implications for his relationship with the Muslim world.
In sum: Obama was an irregularly practicing Muslim who rarely or occasionally prayed with his step-father in a mosque. This precisely substantiates my statement that he "for some years had a reasonably Muslim upbringing under the auspices of his Indonesian step-father."
Therefore, what MMfA calls the "Obama-Muslim falsehood" is in fact confirmed by both articles as truthful and accurate.
Calling this a falsehood is in itself a falsehood.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Apr. 29, 2008 update: For a later analysis of this topic, streamlined and with more evidence, see "Barack Obama's Muslim Childhood."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From Daniel Pipes | Original article available at: Confirmed: Barack Obama Practiced Islam - article by Daniel Pipes

 

[mista geechee]

So it's true because one or two article said so? You just want him to be Muslim so bad don't you ? " An occasional Muslim " . Please. I've been to Catholic churches and Baptist churches, so that makes me an occasional Catholic and/or Baptist right?

But like I asked, what is your beef with Muslims? Are you implying that he shouldn't be president because you think he is Muslm ?

 

[B_Nick4444]

1) Gonna need sources for this stuff



You're free to have your opinion, but it is not logically sound, and appears misinformed.

Then you shouldn't have a problem finding some sources, should you? You made the point, the burden of proof rests on you.

.

so, you're not familiar with the basic scholarship on the subject matter at hand, yet you feel qualified to shoot off?

debated how to handle this one, but your attitude was the deciding factor

the scholarship is out there, and available, if you're interested

"ignorance is bliss"

 

[B_Nick4444]

So it's true because one or two article said so? You just want him to be Muslim so bad don't you ? " An occasional Muslim " . Please. I've been to Catholic churches and Baptist churches, so that makes me an occasional Catholic and/or Baptist right?

But like I asked, what is your beef with Muslims? Are you implying that he shouldn't be president because you think he is Muslm ?

don't know if he is or not -- that's the issue!

since I don't subscribe to the precepts of the little red book, but rely on facts, and critical analysis, if he were Muslim, yes -- big issue!

what could I possibly have against Islam?

 

[D_Thoraxis_Biggulp]

Obama was never a Muslim. He went to a primarily Muslim (meaning most of the students were Muslim) school, which was a public school with no religiously-based classes, from ages 6 to 10. His mother was an atheist, and as a child, you're publicly considered to be whatever your mother is, regardless of what you say otherwise. In the early 80s, which would be the start of his adulthood, he became a registered member of a Christian church. To say that it was a front for a political agenda, 25+ years before running for President and when a political career was barely a dream, would seriously be reaching.

Besides, Muslim teachings are not anti-American. Let's remember that this religion is older than America, as populated and operated by European settlers and their descendants. It's the recent analyses by radicals and extremists that contort them into such, spinning them to fit their own agenda. So whatever morality he picked up from his stepfather isn't going to be a threat to us, especially since his stepfather was neither a radical nor an extremist. Not to mention the fact that Obama is a middle-aged adult, capable of making his own rational judgments on morality.

 

[B_Nick4444]

So whatever morality he picked up from his stepfather isn't going to be a threat to us, especially since his stepfather was neither a radical nor an extremist. Not to mention the fact that Obama is a middle-aged adult, capable of making his own rational judgments on morality.

if he gets elected ... one hopes

one hopes

 

[D_Thoraxis_Biggulp]

No, one knows. Atleast if they haven't been jaded to the Muslim religion by terrorists blaspheming the name. I mean, I can understand how it would be easy to fall to such, but they're honestly not a bad group of people. It's just that the ones that are particularly bad douche it up to such an extreme that they overshadow the rest of them in the outside world's view.

 

[dreamer20]

In sum: Obama was an irregularly practicing Muslim who rarely or occasionally prayed with his step-father in a mosque...
Calling this a falsehood is in itself a falsehood.

The yellow journalists are at it again I see. Zoe73 posted about the secular school that Obama attended as a child, circa 1969-1971, here:

http://www.lpsg.org/1476321-post20.html

a lot of hype...here's Jon Stewart breaking down the "muslim" connection and laughing at them for the 1/2-assed observation.

Wait for it .. the part that goes "This, is, Huge!"

I love Jon Stewart.

Obama's middle is from his African father, Barack Hussein Obama (Sr.).

His parents divorced.

But his mother remarried an Indonesian man in Hawaii and lived in Indonesia for 4 years (from the time he was 4-8) until his mother divorced his step-father. Indonesia has a huge muslim population. That's the connection. (stunning, no?)

Last year Jan, 2007 - Fox News ran this "muslim" upbringing, before Obama announced his candidacy. They even made it more ominous - saying he attended a muslim school, a "Madrassa" (don't ask me if I spelled it right). The hype is that "Madrassa" is Arabic for "school." *oooh* spooky. Foxnews then went on to forever referred to it as "Obama's Madrassa past" that Obama was raised as Muslim is "HUGE."

Of course Fox news didn't look at the school. So CNN went to that elementary Madrassa (school) in Indonesia. It was an ordinary secular school where teachers the wore western dress and boys and girls played on the same playground.

CNN debunks false report about Obama - CNN.com

 

[D_Davy_Downspout]

so, you're not familiar with the basic scholarship on the subject matter at hand, yet you feel qualified to shoot off?

debated how to handle this one, but your attitude was the deciding factor

the scholarship is out there, and available, if you're interested

"ignorance is bliss"

Guess what....changing your font size and using pretty colors doesn't make you right. Again....if the basic scholarship on the subject is just so damn easy to find, you should have to expend no effort at all to supply it. Instead of spending multiple posts saying why you shouldn't....that makes it look like you can't support your position.

Burden of Proof: You make a statement, you have to back it up. Question anything I've said, I'll give you a link.

 

[deleted15807]

You didn't try hard enough in high school or college and don't have any marketable skills, so you can't find work. That's your fault.

You chose to become a miner and, in so doing, accepted the risks that come with that job. You were also paid more than similarly educated or talented people because of those risks. That's your fault.

You bit off more than you could chew with a mortgage you weren't sure you could pay off. That's your fault.

I agree with you here. Who appropriated the money to bail out Bear Stearns? Hint: they're the party in control of Congress right now.

Here are a few reasons to vote for McCain:

(I simply couldn't republish this Pravda propaganda again)

Intelligent response? Why would I want to make an effort to a Republican drone? Your disinformation is utterly breathtaking in it's audacity.

It's nice now that the disasters of Republican rule are so evident you try and switch the blame to the democrats. 'It wasn't me officer', his hands dripping with blood, a knife on the floor next to his feet.

But like I asked, what is your beef with Muslims? Are you implying that he shouldn't be president because you think he is Muslm ?

Uhhhmmm YES! Yes Lord in heaven YES YES YES!!! If we can do that McCain is IN. Isn't it OBVIOUS?? Muslims took down the World Trade Center. Do I have to SPELL it OUT for you?

YouTube - Is Obama Muslim?

 

[D_Davy_Downspout]

Why should the government have to invest in alternative energy? If alternative energy will truly replace oil as promised, it should be able to stand up on its own and find investors without needing government subsidies. Bear in mind we're trying to reduce the deficit as well (more on this later).

Bullshit, and a oil company talking point. It's in everyone's interest for the government to invest in alternative energy. Case in point, healthcare companies are very profitable, but many medical breakthroughs come from government labs. This is true in many other fields. I could also point out that McCain has paid lip-service to government spending on alternative fuel.

Lower is still lower. Even so, as long as we have a source of domestic oil, there's no reason not to use it.

Besides, you said (correctly) that the demand for oil is fairly static. People have to drive, after all. McCain's belief is that by increasing supply and drilling for our own oil, we can bring down the price.

Why on earth would the oil companies reduce their profits? If you have inelastic demand, you know how much to produce. Additional supply would be sold outside the US. Our refineries aren't even running at capacity.

That's entirely correct, but the fact remains that Obama has had a very privileged existence from the get-go. McCain did too, but he has experienced extreme suffering that Obama has not in the service of his country.

How has Obama had as nearly a privileged existence as McCain? Keep in mind, both are rich now(esp. McCain) and I really don't see how it matters for either of them. I also don't see how "suffering" qualifies anyone for anything, though I do see how it might adversely affect someone's psyche.

Also, the treatment of detainees in Guantanamo Bay is an issue in this election. McCain, having experienced torture himself, is uniquely qualified to decide this issue.

Moot point. Both candidates are on record saying they would immediately close Gitmo. And if you have to ask whether it's torture, it's torture.

You can balance the budget by cutting spending or raising taxes. It's actually pretty easy: you don't spend more money than you have. Tax increases are a bad idea with the economy in its current state. Budget decreases are much better: they don't harm the economy, they don't force the government to borrow money, AND they decrease the size and scope of government.

Show me when we have balanced the budget purely by budget decreases. And ending the war is a huge point. Most of the spending has been supplemental, so it has NOT appeared in the budget, but instead gone directly to the debt. The part that has, has still been large.

Obama supporters: You like to talk about John McCain's admitted lack of experience in economics, but Obama has about as much experience as McCain does (if not less). At least McCain is willing to admit that he is weak on economic issues. This also speaks to McCain's character somewhat: part of being a good leader is recognizing your weaknesses and finding people who can either help you improve or give you advice. Two of his top campaign advisors are Meg Whitman, founder of eBay, and Carly Fiorina, the former CEO of Hewlett-Packard. They should be able to give him plenty of help in economics.

You're really putting Carly Fiorina out there as a good with money? Look at what she did to HP.

Obama has admitted no such thing, yet his tax and energy plans clearly betray his lack of economic knowledge.

Really? Which parts?

By the way, Iraq is a temporary expense. Unlike Social Security, Medicare, or our other several hundred billion per year programs, we will eventually stop spending money in Iraq. In fact, we might eventually turn a profit if we can stabilize the government there and collect some of their oil revenue. Nevertheless, the money we've spent in Iraq doesn't even begin to account for the massive debt this country is in. That is almost entirely the fault of expensive programs like Medicare.

This paragraph is a gem, I don't want to touch it. I didn't realize there was still some of you "we'll make money off the oil" types around. "We" won't. Halliburton did. When we're gone Iraqi's will.

I haven't heard him talk about it at all, but I'm sure his position on immigration (like ALL of his positions) lines up exactly with that of the Democratic Party. Traditionally, they've supported an open border policy.

This is what happens when you talk from ignorance. He supports nothing of the sort. Clearly you haven't actually studied Obama as much as you're trying to imply. His website alone lays out his position, it takes like 5 seconds to look that up. Not to mention, when you sponsor a bill with someone, you probably agree with them on an issue. Was McCain's bill an open border policy?

 

[deleted15807]

This paragraph is a gem, I don't want to touch it. I didn't realize there was still some of you "we'll make money off the oil" types around.

Yep that statement ALONE was one could only call the coup de grâce to any hint there might be some intelligence there. Laugh out loud time...roll your eyes...turn the channel.

 

[B_Nick4444]

No, one knows. Atleast if they haven't been jaded to the Muslim religion by terrorists blaspheming the name. I mean, I can understand how it would be easy to fall to such, but they're honestly not a bad group of people. It's just that the ones that are particularly bad douche it up to such an extreme that they overshadow the rest of them in the outside world's view.

unfortunately, if you read the interviews surrounding the fellows identified as terrorists, you will uniformly find that the people around them were all surprised, as none of the terrorists beforehand seemed especially fanatical ...