Why so many gays ?

[jonb]

Originally posted by ORCABOMBER@Jul 14 2004, 11:36 PM
Okay, thanks.

Yeah, it was bad enough with yestergay, bi-curious, gay for pay, and all the other categories. But once we started classifying sexual preferences, I knew we'd get this. It's even further confused by transgender: Does a transgender have to be pre-op/no-op or post-op?

That being said, social scientists typically use the "X who have sex with Y" or "XSY" header. Makes a lot more sense.

 

[13788]

joe22xxx: This thing keeps getting back to the same old issue. Maybe gay folks are getting more acceptence in some ways, but for most straight guys, being gay is not exactly a cool thing. What I mean is, for them personally. Like I've said before on other threads, it's ok if someone else wants to be gay or is gay, but it's not ok for me or my close buddies. Or some version of that. It's hard to put into words. For example, if I'm drunk at a party & I end up in bed with my best friend & his girl, is that "gay", as in now I'm just going to have sex with guys? Nope, I want to have sex with women. I still think there are so many degrees to this thing. Like I have a close male friend who I love, but I'm not interested in jumping his bones AT ALL. But occasionally I'll see some guy on campus who is very sexy to me, but I'm not sure why, and it passes through my mind that I'd like to see what he looks like naked or hold him close to me. So then, how "gay" is that? Is that a "little" gay or "really" gay. I'm still working on all this shyt. Thanx all for the discussion, as usual.

 

[13788]

BRMSTN69: If it feels good and seems right, go with it and fuck the lables

 

[jonb]

Especially when men have been having sex with men long before Kertbeny coined the term homosexualitat; the big change was the social pressure against having sex with women if you also have sex with men.

I'll have to explain more about the winkte to you some time. I guess it's a more natural label because quite frankly a mouth's a mouth.

 

[lacsap1]

Originally posted by BRMSTN69@Jul 9 2004, 01:36 PM
Italian, I always thought Europians were more open minded than us Yanks

Don't forget, that ties days, there are 25 countries within the European Union and some others waiting to enter like Turkey (please not&#33.

As core of the EU "the Northern Countries", like Belgium, Scandinavia and Holland,
try to keep in mind that we are not all very liberial. As a member of the EU, the Netherlands will be increasingly forced to comply with continent-wide norms on social questions. It’s unlikely that larger nations such as Italy and Spain, where the Catholic church still has considerable political muscle, will be willing to go along with innovations such as gay marriage and euthanasia.

Holland became the first nation in the world to recognize full marriage rights for homosexuals, Belgium, Denmark and Sweden are following shortly.
In some ways, Holland does represent a wider trend. Ten European nations now offer legal registration to non-married couples, in many cases including same-sex couples. Laws governing matrimony, divorce and adoption have dropped all references to gender, and even the dictionary has been amended to eliminate references to “man and woman” in the definition of marriage.

The incidence of homophobia and hate crimes in the Netherlands is among the lowest in the world. Anti-gay speech is vigorously policed. When Islamic Imams called homosexuality “a sickness that could destroy society,” the Dutch Prime Minister termed the language “intolerable.” The imam was summoned by a government minister who explained the norms of civil discourse.

So to be able to tolerate, you must fight the intolerance.....

 

[jonb]

Well, Pascal, the problem is the word "tolerance". You tolerate a crying child next to you on a plane. You tolerate a long line. You tolerate commercials. In order for me to tolerate homosexuals, they'd have to be constantly trying to suck my cock. LOL I wish.

 

[madame_zora]

Originally posted by lacsap1+Jul 18 2004, 08:29 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (lacsap1 @ Jul 18 2004, 08:29 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-BRMSTN69@Jul 9 2004, 01:36 PM
Italian, I always thought Europians were more open minded than us Yanks

Don&#39;t forget, that ties days, there are 25 countries within the European Union and some others waiting to enter like Turkey (please not&#33.

As core of the EU "the Northern Countries", like Belgium, Scandinavia and Holland,
try to keep in mind that we are not all very liberial. As a member of the EU, the Netherlands will be increasingly forced to comply with continent-wide norms on social questions. It’s unlikely that larger nations such as Italy and Spain, where the Catholic church still has considerable political muscle, will be willing to go along with innovations such as gay marriage and euthanasia.

Holland became the first nation in the world to recognize full marriage rights for homosexuals, Belgium, Denmark and Sweden are following shortly.
In some ways, Holland does represent a wider trend. Ten European nations now offer legal registration to non-married couples, in many cases including same-sex couples. Laws governing matrimony, divorce and adoption have dropped all references to gender, and even the dictionary has been amended to eliminate references to “man and woman” in the definition of marriage.

The incidence of homophobia and hate crimes in the Netherlands is among the lowest in the world. Anti-gay speech is vigorously policed. When Islamic Imams called homosexuality “a sickness that could destroy society,” the Dutch Prime Minister termed the language “intolerable.” The imam was summoned by a government minister who explained the norms of civil discourse.

So to be able to tolerate, you must fight the intolerance..... [/b][/quote]
Lascap, you hit on one of my favorite topics. KKK members, racists of all kinds, gay bashers, womanizers, all use the banner of "tolerance" in perversion. It sounds good on paper, even given me cause to take pause for a moment to review my own feelings, but in the end, I always conclude that Hatred of others is fudamentally wrong and I will speak out against it nomatter what the chance is that I&#39;ll appear intolerant myself. I AM intolerant of ignorance and hatred, so what mixed message am I afraid I&#39;ll send?

 

[D_Humper E Bogart]

There&#39;s always the "stop poking me&#33;" line of thought, altough I don&#39;t get actively involved in issues.

 

[overshot]

Originally posted by lacsap1@Jul 18 2004, 03:29 PM

The incidence of homophobia and hate crimes in the Netherlands is among the lowest in the world. Anti-gay speech is vigorously policed. When Islamic Imams called homosexuality “a sickness that could destroy society,” the Dutch Prime Minister termed the language “intolerable.” The imam was summoned by a government minister who explained the norms of civil discourse.

So to be able to tolerate, you must fight the intolerance.....

Wait, this seems wrong to me. I know people should be tolerant, but that is his (their) own view of homosexuality and he (they) should be allowed to express it somehow without being summoned by a government minister. And, I&#39;d like to consider myself very tolerant (heh, I have to be tolerant since my family is so insane).

 

[madame_zora]

If I may interject here, this is where I see the difference. Any opinion someone has about THEIR OWN behavior is their perfect right to discuss, and I will defend that right to the end. The problem comes is when someone feels they have the right to condemn the behavior of others in a public format. That is pure bullshit, and it serves no purpose other than to degrade and inflame. That kind of "free speech" I find intolerable and will not allow it in my presense. If you want to talk about your feelings, as they apply to yourself, that is a beautiful thing, but to condemn others is just useless hate rhetoric and it&#39;s overdone, worn out, and tremendously boring. When someone is saying how something is the dwonfall of "society as a whole", it&#39;s pretty clear they are not just talking about themselves&#33;

 

[13788]

mediumlegnth: I&#39;m in the military. One of the worst place to be in the states to be gay h34r:

 

[jonb]

Originally posted by mediumlegnth@Jul 25 2004, 10:14 PM
I&#39;m in the military. One of the worst place to be in the states to be gay h34r:

But the best place in Iraq to be gay. Strange how it&#39;s an abomination when two men love each other, but it&#39;s accepted practice when one man wants to completely dominate the other. But that&#39;s Bush and Rummy for you. :wacko:

 

[B_DoubleMeatWhopper]

Originally posted by madame_zora@Jul 25 2004, 11:26 PM
The problem comes is when someone feels they have the right to condemn the behavior of others in a public format.

I can&#39;t agree 100%. There are behaviours that I will continue to condemn in a public forum: rape, child abuse (sexual or otherwise), bestiality, spousal abuse. These I find objectionable and I will exercise my right to speak out against them.

 

[madame_zora]

Wow, once again I am put in my place. I couldn&#39;t agree more...back to the ol&#39; drawing board for me&#33; What&#39;s wrong with being a judgemental asshole anyway?
I really DO hate abusers, rapists, incest, beastiality, racists, and thick-headed people, so why fight it?

As always, DMW, I appreciate your clarity.

 

[D_Humper E Bogart]

Agreed.

As for the whole gay issue, it&#39;s still aright to be cool with gay men but not with gay sex?
I mean, I&#39;m not the last straight man on earth?

 

[13788]

qwertyu: theres actually some science behind large cocks and being gay.

we all started as women (shock shock) in the womb until about 3 months old, then an amazing drug comes in and changes u forever

testosterone, its only supposed to be releases when there&#39;s an x chromosome (you do know that xy= man yy= girl from se ed right?) but thatsgoing into a whole different story

if there is testosterone released and that tender age of 3 months (in the womb) u grow the penis and testes, it also wires the brain for sexual attraction, which would mean girls right? wellll if too much testosterone is released the organs grow even bigger than there supposed to, the overload also cause a change in the "brain&#39;s wiring" and u become attracted more to guys

just what I&#39;ve read/heard

 

[ponybilt]

Originally posted by overshot+Jul 25 2004, 08:20 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (overshot @ Jul 25 2004, 08:20 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-lacsap1@Jul 18 2004, 03:29 PM

The incidence of homophobia and hate crimes in the Netherlands is among the lowest in the world. Anti-gay speech is vigorously policed. When Islamic Imams called homosexuality “a sickness that could destroy society,” the Dutch Prime Minister termed the language “intolerable.” The imam was summoned by a government minister who explained the norms of civil discourse.

So to be able to tolerate, you must fight the intolerance.....

Wait, this seems wrong to me. I know people should be tolerant, but that is his (their) own view of homosexuality and he (they) should be allowed to express it somehow without being summoned by a government minister. And, I&#39;d like to consider myself very tolerant (heh, I have to be tolerant since my family is so insane). [/b][/quote]
Perhaps not so much wrong, as it is unfamiliar if you live in the US.

You don&#39;t say where you&#39;re from, but I thought this sounded like a good thing. Public calls to incite hatred being discussed one-on-one seems much better than what we&#39;ve got in the states, which is to continue the hate-mongering diatrab in front of the public without ever speaking directlly with each other.

 

[jonb]

It&#39;s six to ten weeks that the sex organs develop. I&#39;m kinda skeptical of a gay gene; it&#39;s kinda reductionist. I&#39;ve heard of a study claiming a difference in brain structure, but it turns out all the gay men in the study later died of AIDS, which does affect the brain

 

[ozdick]

Originally posted by mediumlegnth@Jul 26 2004, 06:14 AM
I&#39;m in the military. One of the worst place to be in the states to be gay h34r:

One of the most memorable quotes I read was from a gay soldier.
It was something like

"I killed a man -
I got a medal.
I loved a man -
I got a dishonourable discharge"

 

[13788]

VladtheImpaler: Hate speech is not something that should be tolerated as free speech. Just like free speech doesn&#39;t allow one to to falsely yell "Fire&#33;" in a crowded building just for laughs, it also shouldn&#39;t allow someone to incide hatred towards a race or group.

Criticism of the practices of some group is one thing; we hear tons of that here in the US right now, since this an election year, and that is completely acceptable. But to damn (in the literal sense in the example of the imam) an entire group of people simply on the basis of their essential identity is both wrong and very dangerous to society. If you say "God hates Jews/gays/Catholics/Muslims/Christians/etc.", you are saying that the group you are damning has no right to even exist. It is a short trip to mass murder from there. History has all too many examples of this.