Why So Many Men Are Triggered By The Term Toxic Masculinity?

JayPR

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I've noticed that men, especially straight men, don't belive toxic masculinity is a thing and get very defensive when someone uses the term and call it a problem in our society. To clarify, masculinity and being masculine are fine, the issue we are discussing is toxic masculinity which is another thing.

Why do you think of this term- and the behaviors associated with them (excessive aggressiveness, repression of emotions and feelings, prejudice towards anything sensible or not "manly enough", belief that masculinity is superior to feminity)- triggers so many men to the point that they think is an attack on men?
 

twoton

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It irks me a lot when people use the term. Why does it irk me?
There have always been knuckleheads. But back in the day, people were "called out" for being knuckleheads.

Nowadays, the knee jerk reaction of people with hair trigger emotional responses to those with whomst they disagree is to slam a generalized label on them, regardless of whether it applies.

I'm not "toxically masculine." I have never been, and because I refuse, and have always refused, to conform to the Bro Code, I've never had a cluster of bros to hang out with. However, I refuse to conform to the nitpicking backbiting emotionally wrecked brand of socio-political correctness that's pervaded every facet of American life.

I'm not offended by Archie Bunker, because I understand satire and humor, for example.

And so it pisses me off when someone stereotypes me if I happen to disagree with people like AOC, or whomstever is the It Girl (or Boi) of the moment.
 

dongalong

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If having to defend yourself after accidentally bumping into a "kyle" at the state fair is the way "men have always behaved" then yeah that's pretty toxic and should be addressed in a constructive way.
The thing is, toxic people do toxic things whatever the gender.
 

dongalong

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I've noticed that men, especially straight men, don't belive toxic masculinity is a thing and get very defensive when someone uses the term and call it a problem in our society. To clarify, masculinity and being masculine are fine, the issue we are discussing is toxic masculinity which is another thing.

Why do you think of this term- and the behaviors associated with them (excessive aggressiveness, repression of emotions and feelings, prejudice towards anything sensible or not "manly enough", belief that masculinity is superior to feminity)- triggers so many men to the point that they think is an attack on men?
If a man gets triggered he's focusing on the fact that he is being smeared for behaving in the same natural way that men have always behaved. "Toxic masculinity" is clearly projection from toxic females, it's not a real thing that men take seriously.

Where did it come from? Gender studies classes, 3rd & 4th wave feminists? They believe smears are an effective weapon for changing society into one they find acceptable, most men really don't care when they hear it though, we are equipped with the ability to switch off our hearing when whiny women are whining.

Most women don't believe in it either, judging by the popularity of 50 Shades of Grey, they find so called toxic masculinity a huge turn on!
 
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Bull9in

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In my experience, people are "triggered" for one of two reasons...they feel they are being diminished or marginalized without cause, or they feel they are being called out with cause, and they feel embarassed. Reading the above responses, I would say it's a mix on this issue.

First of all, let's get something semantic clear here, "toxic masculinity" is different from "masculinity" or "masculine." Equating the terms is an erroneous exercise, either by mistake or purposefully. If purposeful, it is because one wishes to obfuscate the conversation. This tactic is overused by many politicians...for example, if you have issue with illegal immigration, there are those who conveniently leave out the word "illegal" and simply say you take issue with immigration. The two are not the same, though given the fervor around some of Trump's rallies, it seems to be for some people. (And for the record, asylum is not illegal immigration, though those two get conflated as well.)

Likewise, "toxic masculinity" is not condemnation of masculinity in toto, it is a different term. And I think that anyone honest with themselves knows that.

As I understand it, "toxic masculinity" refers to certain objectionable behaviors traditionally associated with and exhibited by certain males - such as chauvinism, physical violence, the "might is right" mindset, lack of emotion or emotional display, domineering attitude, and self-entitled status due to simply being male. There are others, but these will suffice. All of these are "traditionally masculine" traits - there are those who actually teach their young boys to adhere to these principles - to "be a man." Therefore, semantically, these can be said to be traits of "masculinity" for certain parts of society.

Further, these traits have been widely acknoweldged to be detrimental to the individual, and to society at large. They serve no useful purpose, but instead create a "toxic" condition in the mind of the male, and a "toxic" situation for those around him.

Taken in sum, then, it is logical, and illustrative, to utilize the term "toxic masculinity" to describe these negative behaviors. And further, it would seem that anyone taking personal issue with the term, or taking it to be a personal attack, might be suffering from the effects of an inculcation of "toxic masculinity" ideals from their primary caregivers, or primary social group.

As others have said, we as creatures, in our natural states, simply are. Beyond physical differences, male and female roles and traits are more increasingly seen as a prescribed set of attributes, rather than a natural state of being. The adjectives we use, "masculine," "feminine," etc, are useful only insomuch as they allow us a common base upon which to build our understanding of ourselves, and the world around us. More than that, when we strive to live up to an adjective or ideal that does not fit us ("be a 'man'"), nor allow us to fit peacefully in the world ("men are dominant"), we become toxic, to ourselves and others.

There are, though it has not been coined to my knowledge, examples of "toxic femininity" as well. Any stereotypical trait, ascribed as an expected ideal, and pushed to its zenith will be toxic. In a bygone era, women expected to be silent wallflowers with no agency, and later barefoot and pregnant would be toxic, I think. Women who were taught to "lie back and do their womanly duty" would be another example.

Yes, people sometimes throw terms around they do not understand, or worse, use them in incorrrect ways, as a weapon, for their own agenda. When one is accused of "toxic masculinity" and yet has done nothing worthy of the moniker, it is unjust, and must be decried as such. That does not mean, however, that others are not guilty of the behavior, nor that the term should not be correctly used where appropriate.

Saying that women are "whiners" when they complain of boorish behavior is, as far as I can tell, an erroneous blanket statement that smacks very clearly of toxic masculinity, if the person truly believes this. So is disregarding any criticism that might encroach on a male's sense of "rightness" and superiority. Not listening is toxic, too, and I think that trait crosses sexual and gender boundaries.

There are many, many threads here on LPSG where examples of toxic masculinity is on display, and not just here in this one. And unfortunately, it is on display in the real world too.
 

englad

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I think it's a front basically.

A way of projecting a certain image of strength to paper over any cracks lying beneath. I think some men associate those negative behaviours you've mentioned as being something positive in a sort of "boys just being boys" mentality. Men who would get triggered by the term toxic masculinity have been conditioned into thinking those traits are either not that bad or positive and so they conclude that masculinity itself is being attacked as opposed to specific toxic conditioned traits. I think that also comes from the fact that many people are still conditioned into traits being perceived as masculine or feminine, the colours pink and blue are a good example of how nebulous these traits often are (as pink used to be considered masculine and blue feminine pre-WWII). This starts very young, and often continues into adulthood.

This is a shame as the traits you've listed are deeply damaging to a lot of men, higher suicide rates, less likely to seek help if they need it, fights etc. It's possible that biology plays a role there (as there is a link bet higher levels of testosterone and impulsive behaviour), but the vast majority of it is conditioned and learned rather than innate.

But culture generally does play a huge role as well, I think if you were to compare two women with one from Canada and another from Southern Italy, you'd likely also get very different levels of emotional expression.

The trend I've seen in the UK and Germany is toxic masculinity's on the wane, especially in younger generations.
 
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deleted3200

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If having to defend yourself after accidentally bumping into a "kyle" at the state fair is the way "men have always behaved" then yeah that's pretty toxic and should be addressed in a constructive way.
 

Infernal

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I was talking with a friend and he told me that the first guy he was with called him a "puta" while he was fucking him,he got mad and left. I told him that technically he was that man's bitch the minute he stuck his dick in your ass.
He got all offended about that and now won't talk to me.
Is this one of the examples that you are talking about ?

he sounds like a delicate flower to me.
 

JayPR

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Telling me I'm toxic, instead of whatever it is you have issue with about me, reduces me to a label or a diagnosis. Nobody likes to be reduced.

I don't get it. If you're a man, why do you feel that the word toxic refers to you? Masculinity is not the problem here. As far as i researched, "toxic masculinity" doesn't refer to manly men that are proud to be men. When people use the term "toxic" masculinity they're not referring to you as a person, as an individual, or to any man. It is all about a certain behavior or ways of thinking that reduces being a man to just one way of being a man. It is called "toxic" as a way to say that it's something that has negative effects on other men. Maybe not you, but to other men.

When people in our society feel forced to behave a certain way to fit a mold that it is accepted by the majority of people, some people are going to be against it and will call it out. If you don't relate to it, why are you triggered?

I'm pretty sure that the same happens to other issues as well. For example, it is like when in the US people are talking about racism or "white supremacists", and white people get triggered. No one is saying that just because you're white, you're a racist. Same with "feminazi", not all feminists or all women who believe in equality are feminazis, so why are so many women getting offended?
 

TheMeatyProfessor

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I think some men are threatened whenever someone calls them out for behaviors and interactions that are unwelcome. I think it's similar to the way White people recoil whenever a conversation about racism occurs around them. For some, there's an instant, almost visceral reaction: that the minute the word comes up, something in the brain fires off and prompts the individual to start immediately listing all the ways in which they are not racist. Substitute "toxic masculinity" in there and the same thing may occur.

I think the other issue is that we are beginning to recognize how much traditional gender norms applied to men as standards of masculinity are started to defray them. Guys who either don't subscribe to typical masculine roles or don't act in those ways in public have long dealt with these issues; these are the guys that get called sissy, faggot, or are encouraged to toughen up. As shitty as it is to experience this type of gender policing, I imagine that people who get "used to it" develop a thick enough skin. They either ignore it, yell back, and so on. It's the guys who suffer in silence that are now getting attention. It's the guy who has to keep putting up a front in front of his friends who has a lot of tension we don't see.

To be absolutely clear, today's publicly proud less-than-masculine dudes and the sufferers in silence deserve equal attention and support. To be also absolutely clear, there are aspects about masculinity--like pride in oneself, ambition, assertiveness--that are neutrally good qualities that anybody is well served to foster. It's when these traits are policed aggressively, so much so that any kind of expression that isn't stereotypically male gets devalued, that the problems genuinely arise.

As a guy who is far-fetched from being an athlete and grew up hearing some toxic enforcement of masculinity, that shit really hung me up in my adolescence and young adulthood. I alternated between getting wounded by that stuff and lashing out against it. To this day, I still don't get into sports and keep more than arm's distance away from bro-ey type dudes. But I'm also the same kind of guy who, in public, says I have x, y, and z masculine qualities, and I'm the same dude who isn't afraid of wearing pink or gesturing when I talk or what have you. The latter bravery has come with age. I'm almost 40; I really give two shits about getting masculinity approval. But that's why I'm extra worried for the adolescent or the early 20-something who doesn't have financial stability or is in a supportive friendship circle.
 

W4_Hung

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Because toxic masculinity and the way the term is thrown around is applied to everything men do that isn't feminine. As much as the male gaze is observed and studied, all these pseudo-intellectuals fail to appreciate sociology is studied solely from a female gaze and invalidates the male experience unless it is within the confines a pre-approved feminine framework.

If you're being aggressive for aggression sake and being chauvinistic, yeah you should definitely take a seat but I don't support condemning natural behaviours which aren't damaging
 

halcyondays

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Outside of human anatomy and physiology there's nothing masculine or feminine that's not a stereotype.

Machismo and strength are examples of male stereotypes. Empathy and nurturing are examples of female stereotypes.

These were foisted upon my generation at a very young age by the old English nursery rhyme where girls are sugar and spice and everything nice while boys are snips, snails and puppy dog tails.

Human personality traits are neither male or female. They're human. Any personality trait a male has a female can have and vice versa.:cool:
 

Bull9in

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Totally predictable. Wait until the James Bond franchise (will they change the franchise name as well?) switches to a female lead. Destined for failure. And it will be men’s fault. After all, we refuse to support the new direction.
You do know that a woman erroneously blaming men for her movie's failure has nothing to do with toxic masculinity, right? Her ridiculous claim does not suddenly make toxic masculinity right, nor does it make it go away. Its still a thing.
 

dark933

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Because it requires explanation for someone to know that it's not targetting all masculinity. Also the lack of toxic feminity as a term just makes this term feels extremely sexist towards the guys. Toxic behaviour is toxic behaviour, don't bring masculinity into it because I still think masculinity is a very positive term, as well as feminity.
 

1T1U1F1F1Y

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I have issue with the term because it's implies an aspect of masculinity itself is 'bad' when it isn't. Masculinity and femininity are like life and death. They are neither 'good' or 'bad', 'toxic' or 'clean' - they simple are what they are. What I think people refer to as 'toxic masculinity' is just insecurity masquerading as exaggerated 'manhood' and the same things appear in both genders, across age groups and exhibit's itself in different ways but the root cause is the same thing. By labelling the masculinity itself as bothersome takes away from the responsibility held solely by the individual, their mindset and actions.

There is no such thing as toxic masculinity. Just men hiding behind a certain mask to hide what they are too afraid to proudly show.
 

Bull9in

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I think real men have indepedent and curious minds. They creatively and practically contribute to the well being of society. They understand the range of masculine traits and how they are used for good and evil. The reason why your comments are so boring is that there isn't a hint of any of those characteristics in what you have typed. There is a difference between typing and writing.
Huh. An ad hominem attack in place of an answer to a question that clearly triggered you.

Thank you for the object example of toxic masculinity.