Why the republican party doesnt appeal to people...

[Jjz1109]

How much of what the average American consumes in goods and services, is produced by minimum wage workers? Other than food workers such as migrant laborers and kitchen help?

What are the stats on the affect of a one dollar/hour increase in the minimum wage on the cost of living in the USA? I ask because whenever the topic is discussed. I hear a lot of unsupported opinion about "how it is so badly needed" or "how the economy will tank". What are you basing your opinions on?

Henry Ford took the view that a reasonably well paid work force was good for his company, his industry and the national economy. The consuming power of workers is what drove the American economy and expanded the middle class in the 20th century. Today's CEO's seem to have lost sight of the big picture and think in the short term. Mostly, it's "How do I increase the stock price and my bonus". Whether it's keeping staff on part time hours and getting a virtual subsidy in the form of food stamps, or closing factories and moving production to low-wage labor nations, or threatening such closures to drive down the cost of labor, it's not a well rounded or sustainable practice in my view. In the end, everyone will be poor and the nation will be a crappy, unhappy place to live.

Looking at only the bottom line will usually lead you to where you are looking. The Bottom.

I pay my workers above the local going rate and as a result have the best and most loyal team around. We also spend about 5% of our net on training and education. Because they are good at what they do, they do it faster and better with fewer mistakes, which lowers our costs and more than saves the money we spend on higher wages and the training. Plus, because we have fewer problems and higher quality, we get the better contracts and can charge a little more. It's win, win, win, for the workers, for me and for the clients.

Very admirable Vince. At the same time, it was your choice to pay your workers a little above the going rate, not the government telling you you have to. Your higher quality workers are contributing to your bottom line, allowing you to also invest in training your employees. So far, so good. Now let's say the minimum wage is now increased to what you are currently paying your workers. So now, your workers will expect you to increase their wages given your managerial approach. Assuming you have no problem with that financially, you were forced to do this due to retain that competitive advantage. That means your production costs are now higher, and that gets past on to the consumer in the form of higher prices. Hopefully, your customers are ok with that.

 

[mwBBC]

ITs too unrealistic now. Trying to run a country under religion of christianity. IMEAN SHIT!!! isn't what the muslim brotherhood is doing out east!!!??? You can't mix religion with politics and who said you can't be jewish and american arab hindu black orange purple gay straight AS LONG AS YOU ARE AN AMERICAN you have every right to run the country in a manor of morals. Personally i think everyone also feels change. There is a black president number 1 We are more tolerant of sexual orientation we can thank us young people for all this Even though most shit is fucked up in the world today. The younger generation has definitely grown more as individuals as far as the mind and social tensions are concerned. I don't know if there will ever "world peace" anger is a normal emotion but usually there is a reason for anger and thats why we need COMPROMISE.

 

[StormfrontFL]

Very admirable Vince. At the same time, it was your choice to pay your workers a little above the going rate, not the government telling you you have to. Your higher quality workers are contributing to your bottom line, allowing you to also invest in training your employees. So far, so good. Now let's say the minimum wage is now increased to what you are currently paying your workers. So now, your workers will expect you to increase their wages given your managerial approach. Assuming you have no problem with that financially, you were forced to do this due to retain that competitive advantage. That means your production costs are now higher, and that gets past on to the consumer in the form of higher prices. Hopefully, your customers are ok with that.

Prices are rising regardless. Many products that used to be manufactured in the U.S. are now made in countries where the cost is much less but that doesn't mean the cost for those goods decreased. It just meant more profits. Some of the items that did decrease in price did so because the item was now considered commonplace or antiquated such as the vcr or dvd player.

 

[vince]

You and me both

Just send money.

 

[StormfrontFL]

Just send money.

I'm sure it would be used wisely:biggrin1:

 

[bar4doug]

Prices are rising regardless. Many products that used to be manufactured in the U.S. are now made in countries where the cost is much less but that doesn't mean the cost for those goods decreased. It just meant more profits. Some of the items that did decrease in price did so because the item was now considered commonplace or antiquated such as the vcr or dvd player.

While costs of manufacturing are certainly lower overseas, that doesn't mean prices are not falling. I see prices falling all the time. I spent maybe $650 on a HDTV back in 2007 or 2008. I can buy the same TV now for $300.

You will pay a premium to be an early adapter, but the price eventually falls. Doesn't translate into more profit.

The imported item lowered the price of the item, and put the domestic manufacturer out of business. I would guess the importer had a similar profit margin as the domestic manufacturer, so there really isn't more profit. The reduced cost of the good was passed on to the consumer.

 

[Jjz1109]

While costs of manufacturing are certainly lower overseas, that doesn't mean prices are not falling. I see prices falling all the time. I spent maybe $650 on a HDTV back in 2007 or 2008. I can buy the same TV now for $300.

You will pay a premium to be an early adapter, but the price eventually falls. Doesn't translate into more profit.

The imported item lowered the price of the item, and put the domestic manufacturer out of business. I would guess the importer had a similar profit margin as the domestic manufacturer, so there really isn't more profit. The reduced cost of the good was passed on to the consumer.

Let us not overlook the negative impact unions have had on driving business overseas. Union contracts, negotiations, walkouts, overtime, double time, weekend pay, holiday pay are all a costly burden to business, and forced companies to look abroad for lower cost skill sets. The American worker has always been lead by the unions to think they are being protected, when in reality, the unions are there for their own benefit. The need for unions has evaporated today where people have more choices, and can go to another employer if the working conditions are bad, or they feel they are not being fairly compensated.

 

[185248]

Let us not overlook the negative impact unions have had on driving business overseas. Union contracts, negotiations, walkouts, overtime, double time, weekend pay, holiday pay are all a costly burden to business, and forced companies to look abroad for lower cost skill sets. The American worker has always been lead by the unions to think they are being protected, when in reality, the unions are there for their own benefit. The need for unions has evaporated today where people have more choices, and can go to another employer if the working conditions are bad, or they feel they are not being fairly compensated.

Did you ever give thought as to why people fought and died in those times for working conditions to be improved? Why you have a defence force ready to volunteer to protect it
and not forced to do so.
Next time you buy a cheap shirt made in another country other than your own. Think about it, and those who make it.

Give me 10 freedom fighters against 1,000 forced into it fighters any day of the week.

I think, you just don't get it.

Threaten people, lie to them, take from them to use against them. Suffer the consequences from, them.

 

[StormfrontFL]

Let us not overlook the negative impact unions have had on driving business overseas. Union contracts, negotiations, walkouts, overtime, double time, weekend pay, holiday pay are all a costly burden to business, and forced companies to look abroad for lower cost skill sets. The American worker has always been lead by the unions to think they are being protected, when in reality, the unions are there for their own benefit. The need for unions has evaporated today where people have more choices, and can go to another employer if the working conditions are bad, or they feel they are not being fairly compensated.

Oh so I guess there are just millions of jobs out there just waiting for someone to come and claim them? Why didn't you say so before? All those people looking for jobs should have just come to you because you know where millions of them are.

Without all the things you grouse about the American worker would be working 18 hour shifts, six or seven days a week. Forget staying home with your family on holidays because the boss needs every penny he can get.

Ask any anti union individual if he'd be willing to give up all the benefits the unions provided for him and it's a sure bet he wouldn't. No way will he work 80 hours a week without overtime pay or come in all day on Christmas while his union co-workers are at home. They love to complain but they also love the rewards. In other words, typical human.

 

[Jjz1109]

Oh so I guess there are just millions of jobs out there just waiting for someone to come and claim them? Why didn't you say so before? All those people looking for jobs should have just come to you because you know where millions of them are.

Without all the things you grouse about the American worker would be working 18 hour shifts, six or seven days a week. Forget staying home with your family on holidays because the boss needs every penny he can get.

Ask any anti union individual if he'd be willing to give up all the benefits the unions provided for him and it's a sure bet he wouldn't. No way will he work 80 hours a week without overtime pay or come in all day on Christmas while his union co-workers are at home. They love to complain but they also love the rewards. In other words, typical human.

Those millions of job aren't out there thanks to the unions!

And as far as those horrible working conditions and 18 hour work days, it's 2014, not 1955, Norma Rae. People can leave and find a better employer. Companies are afraid of getting their names in the paper if they don't treat their employees right. Lawsuit, lawsuit, lawsuit. The whole world is upside down!!

I have many friends who belong to unions. They don't get the real world. They just recently had to start contributing to their medical benefits. OMG, the whining and crying!! Imagine that! I've been contributing to medical benefits my entire career! And when we talk about the hours I (willingly) work, they chastise me for not complaining to "someone" or for not telling my boss "no." Or the best one, tell my boss "it's not my job." They just don't get it. It's an entitlement mentality. They immediately want to know what's in it for them. They don't understand that I have gotten promotions, and nice bonuses, for my hard work.

And as for working on holidays, they FIGHT for that triple time. These are reasonably smart people. But it's all hand to mouth. No long term thinking or planning.

But tell me this. What about those workers who MUST join the union? They have no choice. Their dues are like taxes, just going to waste. That's the injustice. They don't have options.

 

[deleted15807]

More more more

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[balsary]

People can leave and find a better employer. Companies are afraid of getting their names in the paper if they don't treat their employees right.

What about those workers who MUST join the union? They have no choice. Their dues are like taxes, just going to waste. That's the injustice. They don't have options.

So which is it? Do people have a choice of where they work or not? How do you manage to contradict yourself in virtually every post you create?

 

[twoton]

I have many friends who belong to unions. They don't get the real world. .....

It's an entitlement mentality. They immediately want to know what's in it for them. They don't understand that I have gotten promotions, and nice bonuses, for my hard work.

I have mixed feelings about unions. They may seem antiquated or perpetuate an entitlement mentality, but I wonder what the situation would be without them being there at all? It's pretty well established that many employers take advantage of workers when the opportunity exists. Walmart is the prime example.

But as a manager, I also understand how difficult it can be to deal with the entitlement mentality. I have an employee who does a really great job and gives 110% day in and day out.

There's not much I can do to reward her, but I think even if I could, she'd not be satisfied. On the few occasions when I've been able to give her a salary increase or extra time off, her reaction hasn't been, "Thank you for recognizing my hard work."

Her reaction has been "I was hoping for more," and "If this is all I get then I won't be working overtime anymore because it's not worth it." (to be clear, I have never once asked her to work overtime--she does it voluntarily--and sometimes, unnecessarily).

I have some reluctance about rewarding her because of her attitude of entitlement. In her mind, if she works hard, I owe her. It's bad for all of our morale.

 

[balsary]

I have mixed feelings about unions. They may seem antiquated or perpetuate an entitlement mentality, but I wonder what the situation would be without them being there at all? It's pretty well established that many employers take advantage of workers when the opportunity exists. Walmart is the prime example.

But as a manager, I also understand how difficult it can be to deal with the entitlement mentality. I have an employee who does a really great job and gives 110% day in and day out.

There's not much I can do to reward her, but I think even if I could, she'd not be satisfied. On the few occasions when I've been able to give her a salary increase or extra time off, her reaction hasn't been, "Thank you for recognizing my hard work."

Her reaction has been "I was hoping for more," and "If this is all I get then I won't be working overtime anymore because it's not worth it." (to be clear, I have never once asked her to work overtime--she does it voluntarily--and sometimes, unnecessarily).

I have some reluctance about rewarding her because of her attitude of entitlement. In her mind, if she works hard, I owe her. It's bad for all of our morale.

Is this a joke?

 

[Klingsor]

I have some reluctance about rewarding her because of her attitude of entitlement. In her mind, if she works hard, I owe her.

You kinda' do, don't you?

 

[vince]

Workers are never satisfied. "Smithers! Release the Hounds!"

 

[twoton]

Is this a joke?

What's funny about it? No, it's not a joke.

 

[twoton]

You kinda' do, don't you?

Yes, to an extent I do. But there's a matter of being reasonable about it. In the past two years she has gotten a bigger salary increase than anyone else in the organization. She has gotten more comp time than anyone else. No matter what she gets, she's unhappy with it, and she knows we have limited resources.

 

[balsary]

What's funny about it? No, it's not a joke.

Either you have no idea what "entitlement mentality" means or I don't, and I'm completely willing to admit it might be me. Several years ago, as an electrician, I had a new guy I had to train. His dad was an electrician, so he had a little more knowledge than the average person, but was far from being knowledgeable. He thought he deserved to be paid as much as me because of his "knowledge", yet he was unable to do the most basic parts of the job. He came to work late and called in sick frequently. When he did come to work, all he did was bitch about not making enough money to pay his bills. It was as if he felt the company owed him a job and that he was paid to simply show up. This went on for 2 years. Everyone that hired in after him surpassed him, and eventually he quit because his dad got him a job at the VA hospital where he could get paid well for not doing shit (his dream apparently).

What you described seems like someone that busts their ass for their company and isn't fairly compensated, though it's hard to say for sure. There are likely many more factors at play than what you described, but based off what you've said, I don't see the entitlement mentality at play here. You said it yourself, "In her mind, if she works hard, I owe her." What's wrong with that mentality? People that feel entitled feel like they are owed something, not because of what they contribute, but simply because they exist. At least that's how I understand it.

 

[twoton]

Either you have no idea what "entitlement mentality" means or I don't, and I'm completely willing to admit it might be me. Several years ago, as an electrician, I had a new guy I had to train. His dad was an electrician, so he had a little more knowledge than the average person, but was far from being knowledgeable. He thought he deserved to be paid as much as me because of his "knowledge", yet he was unable to do the most basic parts of the job. He came to work late and called in sick frequently. When he did come to work, all he did was bitch about not making enough money to pay his bills. It was as if he felt the company owed him a job and that he was paid to simply show up. This went on for 2 years. Everyone that hired in after him surpassed him, and eventually he quit because his dad got him a job at the VA hospital where he could get paid well for not doing shit (his dream apparently).

What you described seems like someone that busts their ass for their company and isn't fairly compensated, though it's hard to say for sure. There are likely many more factors at play than what you described, but based off what you've said, I don't see the entitlement mentality at play here. You said it yourself, "In her mind, if she works hard, I owe her." What's wrong with that mentality? People that feel entitled feel like they are owed something, not because of what they contribute, but simply because they exist. At least that's how I understand it.

I agree that your example seems more like entitlement than mine.

In my case, I manage a small gov't agency with a break-even budget that uses every penny. I have put off salary increases for me and the other senior staff solely so I would have enough $$ to support increased salaries for lower ranking staff (believe me, I get an earful about that).

The woman is already at the top of the salary scale for her position. In the past two years, I've given her a promotion, added to her job title, allowed her to have wide-ranging responsibilities, allowed her free-reign to make a lot of decisions, increased her salary, and given her more comp time than anyone else.

In return, I have an employee who is absolutely reliable and can be trusted to do a great job without question. I doubt anyone else would be able to do what she does.
If this were Saving Private Ryan, I'd be Tom Hanks and she'd be Tom Sizemore. Almost, because...

She is also ungrateful, has an expectation that I'll do more for her, is borderline insubordinate, and bullies and intimidates other staff.

It's not like we're working on commission, or I can give her profit sharing, or cash bonuses. Can you imagine the headlines if a govt manager handed out cash bonuses or big raises using taxpayer money? I'd lose my job and face jail time.

It's very confusing for me, and a complete hijack of this thread.