Wife’s cancer prompts man to enlist

Discussion in 'Et Cetera, Et Cetera' started by Principessa, Oct 20, 2009.

  1. Principessa

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    He's in the Army now: Wife’s cancer prompts man to enlist


    I'm touched, angered, and verklempt. It's all so wrong. :mad:This should never happen in an allegedly, great country like America.:irked: Clearly this family is one of many that personifies the need for a health care plan that everyone can afford. Don't even get me started on the fact that a 39 year old man was even eligible to enlist in the Army. That's thanks to GWB, post 9/11.:mad: :irked:
     
  2. optimum

    optimum New Member

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    (WARNING: RANT) - Not directed at OP at all:


    People make these desicions as if it's the only option sometimes.

    The article doesn't state whether or not he even ATTEMPTED during the months after his layoff to network with co-workers, and find a related job.

    Several of my friends have joined the forces simply for the pay and health benefits, as if this is the way to take care of these problems now. Have you seen the commercials? $30,000-40,000 a year, with health benefits, and IF YOU SERVE LONG ENOUGH, perhaps pension. 4 years of service? This guy ain't getting shit. He may as well be looking for an online phone answering job where he can make just as much and stay at home where his wife needs him. Now, depending on his occupation (which at 39, I'll admit, should be fairly safe [if it's IT stuff] ), he may possibly get killed before his wife dies, or goes into remission.

    The military has proven that it will fail to adminster your pay or coverage, timely, or at all. It's sad that the father THINKS that this is his only option. Not to mention the fact that hospitals hardly ever end up hunting people down for their medical bills. That's the only debt that ever really consistently goes unpaid until the responsible party's death.

    Working full time at certain restaurants for as little as 3 months can obtain you health/dental, and at least a large enough paycheck to keep food on the table. My guess is that they have a fairly nice, suburban lifestyle, and don't want to give parts of it up for the alternative of keeping the family together and saving money for the highly expensive cancer treatment. I find that more sad than not being able to pay medical bills.

    Obviously, I understand where they, you, and the writer of this article are coming from, but it's a bit of a sob story. I have health problems, and am an independent contractor, so I don't have coverage. I seriously doubt that if my medical bills stacked I'd ever swallow my pride and become a servant of the country who has fucked me over with these unwarranted medical bills in the first place. What a ploy to get those 'much needed extra troops' over to Afghan and Iraq.

    I hope I didn't sound like an asshole. I'm peeved people are driven to this because of our health plan, but also peeved that they don't see what a dumb, means-to-an-end idea it is. You tell me the last time the military has been glorified for financially securing its soldiers.

    If his wife dies while he's overseas, his 4-year plan will prove worthless and misjudged.
     
  3. ZOS23xy

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    It's a human mess. I know of people who enlisted to stay out of jail, or people who did more time to get rid of debt and people who wanted to "work" with guns. With health coverage lacking for many in this country, there are some driven to extremes, out of love and dire hope.

    I can say, there are probably others....
     
  4. Phil Ayesho

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    You kinda do.

    What makes you think there are phone answering gigs here in the States that are hiring? What make you think there are IT jobs hiring?

    Ever hear of a little Bush era trend called OFFSHORING? Where Corporations and rich fucks were given huge tax breaks and used all that money to create jobs... overseas.

    What makes you think that any job he could get offered healthcare?

    Two years ago I could afford healthcare for my staff. But not today... there isn't enough work and the costs have doubled for a business with only 4 employees.

    And- pal... even if he COULD find a job that paid as much, and even if it HAD health insurance... they would NOT COVER HIS WIFE'S PR-EXISTING CONDITION... because republican congresses have allowed the insurance companies to write the laws that are supposed to regulate them.

    The VA, like medicare, are the ONLY health plans in the US that do not play the pre-existing condition game.

    This poor bastard had no other option.

    And you are ranting at the wrong people.
     
  5. Northland

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    Since you desire playing this game, let me ask you-Ever hear of a major economic Clinton era horror called NAFTA? Signed by Clinton, enacted starting January 1,1994. You want to go down the list of how many jobs shipped out of the U.S.A. with that? (and yes, I voted for Clinton in round one. In round two, I was so thoroughly disgusted and disappointed with and by him, that I cast my vote for George Lucas (it was a write-in))



    WRONG! There is always an option. Every damn thing in life has at least 2 choices.
     
  6. Principessa

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  7. Viking_UK

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    That's a sad indictment of US healthcare.

    You guys go on about the failings of the NHS in the UK, but at least under our system, she would be guaranteed treatment.

    It's not a perfect system, and people with non-urgent conditions may have to wait a short while for treatment, but at least they actually will get treatment without risking bankruptcy or homelessness. People with more urgent conditions are treated quickly, and if anyone thinks they're going to have to wait too long for treatment on the NHS, there are various private options available to them if they can afford it or have taken out health insurance.

    OK, you'd have to pay higher taxes if you went for a similar system, but, at the same time, you wouldn't be paying for health insurance, so it would probably work out about the same in the end. On top of that, you wouldn't need to worry about increased premiums or exemptions to cover for pre-existing conditions, not to mention get-out clauses when you're actually sick and need to claim against a policy you've been paying up for 25 years. I don't know, maybe that's too close to socialism.
     
  8. vince

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    Your apportioning of the blame is a little off there North. -

    Clinton signed the treaty into law.

    The point is, both of your parties supported NAFTA. It was "bi-partisan".

    The whole offshoring thing really took off during the Bush Admin and the politicos on both sides have done squat to protect your jobs.

    That poor guy and his family deserve better as citizens of "the greatest country in the world". (If not the greatest, certainly the richest)
     
  9. optimum

    optimum New Member

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    To Phil Ayesho:

    You are definitely mistaken, not to mention I clearly said I wasn't ranting at the OP.


    You don't like to read people's entire post before answering, do you? Was mine too long for you, and did you think you should just start replying based on the first paragraph of my response?


    The OP JUST told us that that was not the full article, I'm just reading her excerpt. I didn't see the header as a link, so don't jump down my back.

    And "pal," I've been able to get several work-from home phone gigs in the last year. If YOU can't find one, it's because YOU are lazy and not trying hard enough. Don't act like every job in this country is taken. That's why half of my idiot friends think they need to go kill and get killed to make money.

    By the way, find out what a "Pre-Existing Condition" is before you claim to know how it affects someone. Here's some bed time reading Phil:

    "Insurance companies try to discourage people from waiting until they get sick in order to purchase health insurance. One way in which they do this is to impose pre-existing condition exclusion periods. This means that if you have a medical problem which exists at the time you enroll in or purchase your health insurance, the insurance company will deny all claims pertaining to this medical problem for a certain period of time.
    If you have job-based coverage, the pre-existing condition exclusion period is limited to 12 months (18 months if you are a late enrollee) and only applies to conditions for which you sought treatment in the 6 months leading up to enrollment. You may be able to apply creditable coverage to offset your pre-existing condition exclusion period. For example, if you were on an individual policy before enrolling in your job-based coverage, you may be able to subtract the amount of time you were covered on your individual policy from the pre-existing condition exclusion period."

    So, why is he spending 4 years in the army, Phil?
     
    #9 optimum, Oct 21, 2009
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2009
  10. Principessa

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    Optimum, I hate to make assumptions; but the guy in the article is almost twice your age. It is possible that he doesn't have your computer skills. Thus, many work from home opportunities wouldn't work for him. :redface:
     
  11. optimum

    optimum New Member

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    I don't have any skills, especially people skills, apparently.
     
  12. Phil Ayesho

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    So what? I did not back NAFTA, any more than I back Obama's failure to stop rendition. (BTW- I think you have no idea how many jobs were Created by NAFTA... its a two sided coin )

    I am not a slave to any party, I evaluate POLICY...by policy, not by party. and, other than Bush's failed attempt to liberalize immigration policy, his policies served only to enrich the class that already has 90% of the world's wealth.

    That is bad policy.

    ALso- don't imagine I am against offshoring of jobs, per se.
    I have seen the great benefit done by US dollars abroad in the lives of people far worse off...
    But it is criminally stupid to allow jobs to be exported faster than the US economy can make replacement jobs... or, in Bush's case, to utterly IGNORE government investment in Job creation and an economic future by stifling science and cutting US infrastructure development and maintenance.

    It beggars the imagination that conservative nitwits can be so PRO law enforcement when it comes to $200 in a convenience store cash register, and yet imagine that no policing at all is required over 200 billion dollars on a board room table.




    Bullshit.
    And, BTW- if you switched to vote republican over NAFTA, then you are an absolute idiot.
    Contrast the OVERALL effect of all policy.
    Clinton balanced the budget- killed welfare- and grew the economy and the average middle class wage.

    Bush blew the budget, created the largest new bureaucracy since Reagan, the largest deficit since Reagan, de-regulated industry to create a unique Series of economic blows from Energy market manipulations thru the Manipulation of the Oil Markets to the manipulation of the mortgage and lending markets.

    Bush also put us into the wrong war killing half a million of the wrong people, undermined US influence and prestige abroad, ignored valid intelligence of impending terrorist attack, and undermined the US constitution and personal freedoms of the American public.

    All in all, for the past 30 years, a vote for Republican policies has been a vote to undermine the effectiveness and prestige of the US government.

    And to allow the foxes to guard the henhouse.

    There were a lot of things I think Clinton did wrong... but by and large his policies balanced out in favor of US security and economic growth.

    Whereas ever since Reagan talked a bunch of rubes into believing that government is BAD and bent on evil, republican policy has resulted in stagnation or decline in real wages, and the transfer of ever greater percentages of wealth into ever fewer hands.
     
    #12 Phil Ayesho, Oct 24, 2009
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2009
  13. Phil Ayesho

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    I read the whole thing.
    It was wrong.



    Yeah, typicval conservative imbecility... "if it ain't happening to ME it ain't happening."
    I am SELF employed. I own my own business.
    I create jobs, by hiring staff.
    EVEN in this economy, I have kept my people employed, by taking less for myself, and working even harder.

    So, who's lazy and not trying hard enough? Do I shit on you for laying back and hoping someone else will get off their ass and create a business that might offer you a job?
    Do I shit on you for taking small time, work from home gigs rather than getting an education in a profession and building a real career?

    No. I don't. I assume you are doing the best you can given the situation you are in.
    I don't own my own business because I am better than nor work harder than anyone else. I simply had different opportunities, advantages, and circumstances.

    Don't wag your finger at what other people are driven to do by desperate circumstances.
    Show some fucking compassion.

    So, are you really that stupid? or simply naive? Have you been paying any attention to real news sources or just sucking on Glen Beck's cock?

    Because, really, Insurance companies deny coverage for pre-existing conditions for the "period of time" that the condition LASTS.
    Got Diabetes? That's a LIFETIME exclusion.
    Got High Blood pressure? That's a LIFETIME exclusion.

    And stupid fucks who THINK they have good coverage, because they got no problem getting checkups and broken fingers looked at, have no fucking idea whether they will be covered for any serious chronic condition.

    Insurance companies routinely flag errors in applications, and do nothing, until you start costing more than you are paying, at which point they will bring up the error to void your policy.
    To get around a local state law stating they could not cancel the policy of a guy with cysctic fibrosis, they canceled ALL the policies of an entire CLASS covered by that plan.

    When you don't KNOW anything because you lack any REAL experience, you really shouldn't speak.

    I can easily AFFORD health insurance even at today's inflated pricing.
    But I can not GET health insurance.

    I got denied insurance ONE time, at age 50, over a paperwork snafu... and form that moment on I have been denied insurance by ever private carrier, BECAUSE i was once denied coverage.

    It is a fucking cooperate SCAM that republicans and a lot of democrats colluded in, to set up our healthcare system to ensure that, if you get seriously ill, every single assest you have worked your life to accrue will be stripped away in the name of astronomical profits paid to people who did NOTHING to contribute to your care.

    The rich got the estate tax removed, so they can pass their wealth on. They got the bankruptcy laws changed to deny bankruptcy to the middle class, and they have rigged healthcare so that EVEN WITH INSURANCE, the middle class will have to sell everything they own to pay for their lives, or the life of their loved one.

    Stop being such a foolish tool of monied interests.

    The Health Insurance industry has an EXEMPTION from anti trust law... they are LEGALLY ALLOWED to FIX PRICES.

    And I don't give a fuck how many snippets of industry propaganda and soft peddling you can cut and paste... I know real live people whose lives have been devastated by insurance industry obstructions and malefeasence.

    Its not the fault of the victims... not the fault of the ILL that they fell ill in a country where profit takes precedence over compassion and care.




    This is true, in SOME States, and for those getting insurance thru a GROUP plan.
    It is NOT true for those trying to get their OWN insurance.

    If your company does not offer a health plan, and fewer every year are, then you are fucked.


    He needed a full time paying job that he would not be fired from in the next few years and bulletproof health care that would not DENY coverage for his wife's condition just because she had it when he got hired.

    And you are shitting on him cause he doesn't drift from small time home work gig to small time home work gig?

    Sounds to me like he Manned the fuck up, and placed his ass on the line for the security of his family.
     
  14. optimum

    optimum New Member

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    So, in telling me that no one should just shift from job to job, and it's not simple enough to create you're own revenue, then YOUR "job creating" occupation is invalid? Why don't you give this guy a job, smartass?

    You keep asking me if I'm shitting on people for their problems. But all YOU'RE doing is pointing out YOUR problems, and how YOU dealt with them. You still didn't even address my original point which was:

    He didn't HAVE to join the army. Why don't we all just join the army, and kill people, for our own sense of financial security?

    {Stop being such a foolish tool of monied interests.}

    Yeah, like the man who leaves his family for an indefinite period of time just to keep them miserable; but at least he's putting food on the table?

    You got money to spare? Spread the wealth, or else you can get off your ass and go join the reserves.
     
  15. Flashy

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    now Phil, you are being just a tad disingenuous and hypocritical with "Optimum" who does not know you as well as i do from previous conversations...perhaps Optimum is not aware of your prior voting record, and it is a tad unfair for you to pontificate without offering the whole truth.

    as i recall Phil, you voted for Reagan...so not only did he convince a bunch of rubes...but he also convinced a razor sharp intellect like yourself.

    your vote for Reagan in 1980, simply because you did not like Carter, spawned the 12 years of "evil republican policy"

    you pulled the lever for the "Reagan Revolution"

    if you are going to argue with new adversaries, at least be honest and clear with them about what you truly have done that has brought you to your current viewpoint.

    you knew what you were getting with Reagan, you knew what he was about, you knew he had the moral majority behind him, you knew Falwell and all those clowns supported him, you knew he espoused tax cuts and regulatory reform...all these things you call an "evil" agenda...

    and you went in to that voting booth in November of 1980, and, because you simply did not like Carter, you thought about it and decided to choose someone whose revolution you consider to be "evil"...you took your hand, and you pulled that lever for Reagan.

    so at least when you are talking about the evil Republican agenda that has flourished since January 1981, you should give a caveat to your new adversaries, that you in fact voted that agenda in to power.

    you will probably get all nasty with me but it still doesn't change the fact.

    at least be honest with your new opponent here.
     
  16. Flashy

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    with all due respect Phil, this is a sad story...but he did not have to "put his ass on the line" and "man the fuck up" by joining the army.

    if you are going to join the armed services, the army is the last one you should join if you want the reasonable element of safety.

    if you are smart, you join the *NAVY* the *AIR FORCE* or the *COAST GUARD*...you join the Army or Marines and chances are you will be on the front lines if you are not focused towards other areas of the army.

    join the Navy and you will be safe at sea on an Aircraft Carrier or Cruiser or TRansport Ship...or on a navy base

    and while you are at it, you can volunteer for a service that will offer you alot of very viable career possibilities when you eventually get out of the service...

    if he has a 4 year college degree, he could have become an immediate candidate for officer school

    he was a coordinator for raw materials at a plastic company...clearly he understands supply, incoming and outcoming materials, organization, and a host of other good qualities that the NAvy or Air Force could use, and he would not simply be some lowly grunt just out of high school with no skills.

    in 4 years in the Navy, as an officer candidate, he will likely be a lieutenant by that time.

    his family will have Medical and dental insurance, free housing or he can get subsidy for off-base housing, life insurance,legal assistance, tuition assistance, low-interest home loans and a host of other things

    In the navy you can take any number of online courses, all free, paid for by the Navy

    and you are not going to be sent in to the mountains in Afghanistan or the deserts of Iraq...(unless you join the Navy special forces)

    you will be on a ship or at a Naval Base, safe and sound for the most part.

    and with his education and experience, his smarts and maturity he no doubt has an edge over the younger people. he has proven dedicated, reliable, focused and a host of other excellent qualities...

    he can learn whatever he wished as an officer candidate...

    he can choose to learn about:

    -law
    -aviation
    -engineering
    -healthcare/medicine
    -intelligence work
    -information/systems - cyberspace/cyber/info warfare
    - public affairs
    - science related fields
    - supply/transport/logistics (PERFECT FOR HIS EXPERIENCE)
    - or join the submarine or surface fleet


    so spare us the drama.

    this man can use his already impressive resume, and in the equivalent of 4 more years in college, could ensure his family's well-being, improve his options enormously, and who knows, might find himself an entirely new, profitable career afterwards...

    if he walks out of the Navy in 4 years as a lieutenant, who was taking courses online, and learning even more in his field which was plastics, or, perhaps trying something else he always wanted to try, like engineering, or law or even medicine, computers, sciences...who knows what he could do.

    frankly, i would not be surprised if in 4 years he winds up with far better prospects than before...and to be honest, considering the state of the economy, he is going to be *GLAD* to be getting a guaranteed paycheck for 4 years, Assistance and insurance for his family, and training to get a higher position in his field, or starting in an entirely new field, while avoiding the worst effects of the economy...that company may have gone under in less than 3 years, in which case he'd be in even worse trouble considering the current projections...he would *THEN* have to join...three years later

    who knows, he may learn some tremendous lessons about supply and coordination that might lead him to come out of the military, and possibly try and start his own business, with a couple of people he met while in the navy...he might build a business that supplies the navy...

    he might find an entirely new, rewarding, and not to mention, lucrative career...
    what if he earns his law degree? what if he chooses to get involved in the Navy Department of Public Affairs?

    he could be working at the Pentagon, or a million other totally safe places...this is a man who has some very clear advantages due to his age and experience.

    if he goes the law route, his "basic training" is 5 weeks of OCS...that is nothing...5 weeks of basic exercise, training, and study...

    he would get to choose his own assignment after 1 to 2 years of service, so he could get himself as close to home as possible, in under 24 months and possibly much less.

    that would allow him an unprecedented chance to choose which he would want to go

    and, if you are a good candidate, you can earn an LLM degree at a law school you choose, that is paid for by the navy, and you *STILL* get your normal yearly navy salary *PLUS* benefits.


    also, this man has said he always thought about joining the army for years, but feared he was too old...as he said to his mom..."He told me, 'I've always wanted to do something for my country and I have to help Michelle.'"

    from my calculations, he earns about $55,000 per year at his former job based on what they said his hourly wage was in the article.

    if he goes the law route, he could be in private practice in 4 years, earning two to three times that easily.

    there is a reason why the armed forces raised their enlistment age to 42...they *DESPERATELY* need people...and they are willing to do a hell of a lot to draw them to the service in terms of helping those people in the present and for the future in exchange for the service they and their family give.

    he certainly could almost walk right in to be a Navy Business Manager in the supply, transport and logistics as an officer...his experience would be invaluable, and he would be perfect for it from his previous job, and could easily supervise younger navy workers, and would advance rather quickly, i would expect.

    I hope for the best for this man and his family...but he did not have to join the army and go to the front....he seems a smart, decent, good hearted, responsible, driven, loving man...if he takes this as an opportunity, this could be the best thing that ever happens to him in terms of his future...second best only to his wife managing to be cancer free, which is my sincerest hope...it would certainly be nice, if in 4 years she is healthy and cancer free, his daughter and son are happily through college, and he has a brand new career, in something he always wanted to do, that allows him to continue to live a great life, with his wonderful wife.

    that is what i hope for....
     
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