Will Obama free us from slavery?

Discussion in 'Politics' started by dongalong, Nov 21, 2008.

  1. dongalong

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2004
    Messages:
    5,335
    Likes Received:
    1,821
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Paris (FR)
    Enslavement by international bankers that is.

    The Money Masters - How International Bankers Gained Control of America

    I just watched this rather long (215mins) but very informative history of money and banks and how greedy individuals have taken control of our lives throughout history using the banking system. It seems to have been recorded in the 80s or 90s but much of the information sounds so familiar to us due to the current economic situation.

    Obama would be wise to visit Guernsey (UK Channel isles) to find a solution to all our problems (From 3hrs 10 minutes into the clip, a solution is proposed).
     
  2. B_Nick4444

    B_Nick4444 New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2007
    Messages:
    7,002
    Likes Received:
    12
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    San Antonio, TX
    given whom he is selecting for advisers, I would say no
     
  3. Drifterwood

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2007
    Messages:
    15,725
    Likes Received:
    388
    Location:
    Fingringhoe (GB)
    I can't possibly hope to view the link on my connection, Danglydong. I just hope that there isn't any Jewish conspiracy crap in there or misrpresentation of the old "Shylock" system.

    I used to work for an Internatonal Bank. We need banks, even though I personally have never borrowed anything in business which has probably meant that I haven't done as well as I could. But the fact remains that those without financial resources but ability, need the money of those who would rather not or do not need to work for it themselves.

    A true Capitalist makes their money out of exploiting those who want to make it. They use Banks to do this. All hail the Medicis, Popes and all, where would you be without them?

    What I think has been different in this crisis is that banks have taken too much of the pie from people who couldn't possibly afford it, and then compounded their mistakes. But we have talked about that elsewhere.
     
  4. Drifterwood

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2007
    Messages:
    15,725
    Likes Received:
    388
    Location:
    Fingringhoe (GB)
    Can I just add that our old banking system worked OK for everyone in expanding opportunities. Those times are mostly gone in the West. The reality is that if you are Blue Collar in the West you are competing globally for the value of your labour. And let's not stop there. A top quality electronic programmer costs $4000 a year in China and they are better off there than you are at home on $60,000. Don't forget though that it it is your household company names who are employing them and not you. It isn't their fault that they find themselves in this imbalance. The Tsunami for the West is deflating to accomodate this global reality. Sadly our Bankers still wanted to squeeze us for every penny under the old order.

    My view, fuck them. Make sure you can grow some food.
     
  5. Biggin'

    Biggin' New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2008
    Messages:
    485
    Likes Received:
    0
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    New York
    no he will not. he will make the people that he promised so much to - slaves to the government. The more people are uneducated and destitute, the more they think they "need the government to help them".

    The democrats need people to be poor and destitute, so they can vote for them..
     
  6. B_starinvestor

    B_starinvestor New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2006
    Messages:
    4,409
    Likes Received:
    0
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Midwest
    I'm with you on the outsourcing of labor globally, but I don't follow how that ties into the banking system. Can you elaborate?

    When you suggest squeezing pennies are you referring to mortgage products? That's the only place that I've seen abuse in our banking system.

    A capitalist is simply someone who owns capital. Your explanation is true of only a small minority of those that engage in capitalism; and who are they that use Banks to accomplish this? Shareholders in banks?
     
  7. dreamer20

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2006
    Messages:
    4,492
    Likes Received:
    4
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    N.Providence

    A venture capitalist would be that kind of capitalist.
    Venture Capitalist - Venture Capitalist Definition

    Our local banks would only indulge into venture capitalism for well established firms and prefer to give housing and consumer loans.
     
  8. B_VinylBoy

    B_VinylBoy New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2007
    Messages:
    10,516
    Likes Received:
    7
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Boston, MA / New York, NY
    But wait.... wasn't it the Republicans trying to pass themselves off as "everyday commonfolk" during the election? Isn't it the Republicans who have the ideal that if you give all the money to the rich 1%, that some of it may "trickle down" to the other 99% below them? Seriously, WHO needs poor people to vote for them? Republicans do. Unfortunately for them, many of them came to their senses and saw what the right winged party was promoting.
     
  9. Wyldgusechaz

    Wyldgusechaz New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2006
    Messages:
    1,259
    Likes Received:
    0
    Gender:
    Male

    No wonder you are poor. Money wasn't not given to rich people, they earned it. Now you can disagree with HOW they earned it but they earned it fair and square. And they got taxes on it too.

    Show me an example where money was just given to rich people. Almost 50% of people get money from government but it isn't rich people. Rich people are rich cause they tend to work harder and are smarter than poor people.
     
  10. B_VinylBoy

    B_VinylBoy New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2007
    Messages:
    10,516
    Likes Received:
    7
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Boston, MA / New York, NY
    Actually I'm not, according to the economic scale. I may not be able to live the life of luxury, but with what I make per year I can definitely survive on my own dollar. However, thanks for trying to label me something that I'm not. Really. I love it when ignorant SOBs like you try to define me. It really shows you how out of touch you are with reality.

    It was a figure of speech, moron. I take it you're not familiar with sarcasm? :rolleyes:

    So, if I fucked a rich millionaire and inherited his fortune would you say that I earned it? If I just happened to be the son or daughter of a rich family, did I earn that money as well? How about if I just marry a rich person?

    The fact is, not many people earn their money the old fashioned way anymore. Nobody is talking about it being fair or not. I'm just pointing out that there's a major difference between someone like Sean Fanning, the creator of Napster, and Paris Hilton.

    Well, if you want to be snippy about it:
    http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/08/washington/08tax.html
    Study: Bush Tax Cuts Favor Wealthy, Congressional Study Finds Middle Class Paying More Of Tax Burden - CBS News
    Surprise, Surprise: Bush Tax Cuts Mainly Benefit Wealthy - Federal Tax Policy - Federal Budget & Tax - OMB Watch

    Seriously... don't make this too easy. I know you're a bigot and all, but don't let it impair your judgement TOO much.

    Wow, pulling figures out of your ass. What a magic trick! I should go tell Sigfried & Roy that you have them beat! :biggrin1:

    I take it you're a poor person then... because quite frankly, I think you're a blithering idiot. :rolleyes: :biggrin1:
     
  11. faceking

    faceking Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2004
    Messages:
    7,535
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    110
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Mavs, NOR * CAL
    you just now have been spoon-fed a sliver o' banking?
     
  12. klaybourn

    klaybourn New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2008
    Messages:
    65
    Likes Received:
    0
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    sacramento, ca
    my 2 cents

    no
     
  13. B_starinvestor

    B_starinvestor New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2006
    Messages:
    4,409
    Likes Received:
    0
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Midwest
    You're right, but VC's wouldn't categorically fall under 'banks.'

    I don't understand where drifter is going with this, that's all.
     
  14. Drifterwood

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2007
    Messages:
    15,725
    Likes Received:
    388
    Location:
    Fingringhoe (GB)
    I'm not going anywhere. I just told you about the way it is. You think you are a capitalist because you are mortgaged in ownership of a pissy bit of nothing. Lol. :rolleyes:
     
  15. Drifterwood

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2007
    Messages:
    15,725
    Likes Received:
    388
    Location:
    Fingringhoe (GB)
    Perhaps that was a bit too pithy.

    Owning capital does not make you a capitalist, especially if you in fact owe the majority of its value. The important disctinction is the use, rather exploitation of a capital asset to make money. That makes you a capitalist.

    I vacillate in my cynicism about homeownership and a capitalist dream. On the one hand it is very desireable for society that most can own their own home, but this desire is exploited and we are somewhat shackled to debt in its pursuit.

    Having helped to get us in this mess through a ridiculous explosion in fractional reserve lending, the banks are now squeezing every penny out of us, in the UK at least. Actual return on deposits is down 33% in real terms and the real cost of borrowing is up 33%. No prizes for guessing who is making the difference in the middle. With tax on interest and inflation at 5%, UK residents are really losing 3.2% minimum on deposits held in UK banks at the moment. The interesting question will be whether those with the deposits that underpin the Banks, will realise this and have the balls to get their money out of banks and into deflated assets.
     
  16. B_starinvestor

    B_starinvestor New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2006
    Messages:
    4,409
    Likes Received:
    0
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Midwest
    You nailed that one. The unnatural forces pushing the homeownership dream are the very forces responsible for our collapse.

    Indeed, before lending guidelines (that had been set by the market and worked for decades) were revised via gov't intervention we had a very healthy and functional lending/home ownership relationship.


    Its no different here in the U.S. The cost of borrowing is up, yet, credit is so tight most can't get it anyway. The spread/margin has increased moreso to offset massive mortgage losses than it is seeking large profits.
     
  17. Drifterwood

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2007
    Messages:
    15,725
    Likes Received:
    388
    Location:
    Fingringhoe (GB)
    When the dust settles, I suspect that our economies will have lost up to 20% of their value in real terms (don't forget to add back inflation). We'll be back to 2003/4. In the meantime, those with very serious money, will have had the opportunity to acquire asstes at a 50% discount, and if they had their money in US$, then they are looking at a further 25% discount. Quite a sell off if you have the money. And let's not forget, as the OP started, it was the people with the real money pulling its supply that created the crunch.

    You could get very conspiracy about this, but I would have to balance that opinion with the fact that things were unsustainable and a new balance was obviously needed in global economics. I could be wrong, and no doubt there will be something of a witch hunt for scapegoats.

    Will Obama save us? or you rather? Not a hope in Hell. I think that the premise of the OP has moved beyond Central Banks.
     
  18. dongalong

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2004
    Messages:
    5,335
    Likes Received:
    1,821
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Paris (FR)
    I think it's time to start saving for the next recession to buy up the results of less visionary people's mistakes.
    We all know that it will happen in 10-15 years, if you can't beat 'em, join 'em.
     
Draft saved Draft deleted