Will You Take The Covid Vaccine?

Melbs

Admired Member
Verified
Gold
Joined
Jul 15, 2020
Posts
192
Media
10
Likes
933
Points
388
Verification
View
Sexuality
100% Gay, 0% Straight
Gender
Male
I do find it hilarious when people from countries that have had literally hundreds of thousands of COVID deaths criticise Australia for the situation we are finding ourselves in now. Yes the lockdowns are strict, but there is a reason why people are putting up with it. Because we know what the alternative is. Australia has had less than 1000 deaths. Canada 26000. Need I go on. The question is how could government put up with such death and despair if restrictions and lockdowns occur anyway due to the strain it eventually causes on the health system.

The thing people forget is that many other western countries have been going through very long lockdowns during a period of time we in Melbourne had many freedoms. I remember being in packed nightclubs at various times throughout the pandemic when many of our friends were in full lockdown with spiralling case numbers. It surprises people how early we go on lockdowns. Yet history has told us this is the only way to stop the delta variant completely… though even I believe it’s become increasingly likely we have seen our last “zero” COVID day in Australia.

I’m in lockdown now in Melbourne and it sucks. But what’s the alternative? Let it go through the community when less than 50% of us have even 1 dose and end up in lockdown in a month anyway? No thanks.
 

James0909

Superior Member
Verified
Gold
Joined
Sep 26, 2019
Posts
642
Media
3
Likes
6,091
Points
413
Location
Perth (Western Australia, Australia)
Verification
View
Gender
Male
I do find it hilarious when people from countries that have had literally hundreds of thousands of COVID deaths criticise Australia for the situation we are finding ourselves in now. Yes the lockdowns are strict, but there is a reason why people are putting up with it. Because we know what the alternative is. Australia has had less than 1000 deaths. Canada 26000. Need I go on. The question is how could government put up with such death and despair if restrictions and lockdowns occur anyway due to the strain it eventually causes on the health system.

The thing people forget is that many other western countries have been going through very long lockdowns during a period of time we in Melbourne had many freedoms. I remember being in packed nightclubs at various times throughout the pandemic when many of our friends were in full lockdown with spiralling case numbers. It surprises people how early we go on lockdowns. Yet history has told us this is the only way to stop the delta variant completely… though even I believe it’s become increasingly likely we have seen our last “zero” COVID day in Australia.

I’m in lockdown now in Melbourne and it sucks. But what’s the alternative? Let it go through the community when less than 50% of us have even 1 dose and end up in lockdown in a month anyway? No thanks.

I snorted when I read this. I wish LPSG had a laugh react function.

I can tell from the way you’ve recounted events that you’re partial towards the ruling party of Victoria and that you’ve suffered little-to-no financial consequences of such a pig-headed covid zero approach. I know people that have lost almost everything they’ve worked for, purely because of the actions of the Victorian government.

I highlighted your “freedoms” remark because it’s faulty on 2 accounts:
- Other states were living in relative freedom to the world in 2020, not Victoria. Victoria was virtually in lockdown from July until November because the government screwed up contact tracing and hotel quarantine, tried to blame it on the public, then lied under oath during an inquiry (which they called to construct a facade of accountability, only to continually “not recall” critical decisions that led to the crisis).
- Secondly, constant density limits, masks outdoors (lol, plenty of science behind that one), 5/10/25km distance restrictions, CURFEWS (absolute no science or health advice behind that), inability to cross state borders, and even the threat of lockdown if we got ONE case in the community...that’s not “freedom” at all. That’s just lockdown lite. We had a lockdown in February that wasn’t even needed due to all the contacts already being in isolation. Your views are regressive and out of date.

Back to your first paragraph, you lambast the deaths overseas, yet you make no mention of the lives given up to maintain this idiotic ‘covid zero’ approach. This is, funnily enough, the exact same hole in the government’s logic to keep lockdowns as their primary strategy (and by primary, I mean only). There is absolutely zero consideration to the life years being sacrificed from the end of people’s lives (i.e. years being sacrificed from the individual life expectancy) to maintain this approach. Mental health is shot, after a royal commission found the system to be highly inadequate before covid (thanks Dan for cutting health funding and turning the DHS into a mess). Homeless and poverty will rise, people are stuck in violent situations, people are losing their businesses and their jobs. This all heavily impacts life expectancy, yet the government isn’t even considering it, and neither are you.

Lastly, what is the alternative you ask? We’ve had 18 months to boost the healthcare system to cope with lighter restrictions and a higher case load, but Daniel Andrews and the Victorian Government would rather invest the money in promoting his own social media accounts (incl. buying bots to manufacture support) and internally polling the electorate to see how popular he and his restrictions are. That and blowing out the infrastructure projects by billions and years over completion targets (the projects that he said were “shovel ready lol), but I digress.

Sorry, but your entire comment is varying in its levels of inaccuracy throughout. You’re literally just parroting the lies that the state government has been spewing for the past year. If I was a betting man, I’d think you’re a worker for the public service. Pathetic comment, and I’d implore the overseas readers of this thread to take it with a grain of salt.

(I can also provide sources for everything I’ve said if you’d like me to).
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Jjz1109

flatiron

Legendary Member
Gold
Platinum Gold
Joined
Mar 16, 2016
Posts
827
Media
0
Likes
1,909
Points
413
Location
Canberra (Australian Capital Territory, Australia)
Sexuality
50% Straight, 50% Gay
Gender
Male
Yes the lockdowns are strict, but there is a reason why people are putting up with it. Because we know what the alternative is.

The alternative should've been faster vaccinations, then we wouldn't be in this mess.

In terms of case numbers, the Sydney situation now mirrors the Melbourne situation last year. In terms of deaths, it's chalk and cheese. Why? Because the vaccines work. We're looking at the wrong metric.
 

Melbs

Admired Member
Verified
Gold
Joined
Jul 15, 2020
Posts
192
Media
10
Likes
933
Points
388
Verification
View
Sexuality
100% Gay, 0% Straight
Gender
Male
The alternative should've been faster vaccinations, then we wouldn't be in this mess.

In terms of case numbers, the Sydney situation now mirrors the Melbourne situation last year. In terms of deaths, it's chalk and cheese. Why? Because the vaccines work. We're looking at the wrong metric.

Totally agree. We fucked up the rollout that is for sure. I check the vaccination figures every day because that is the light at the end of the tunnel for us all. I’m vaccinated and I don’t think people realise how lucky we all are to have the chance to be. Plenty worse places to live.
 
D

deleted12297741

Guest
Totally agree. We fucked up the rollout that is for sure. I check the vaccination figures every day because that is the light at the end of the tunnel for us all. I’m vaccinated and I don’t think people realise how lucky we all are to have the chance to be. Plenty worse places to live.
The vaccine only prevents you from getting a really bad case of COVID and ending up in the hospital. You can still get and transmit the virus just as easily.
The vaccine as it is right now it’s not going to stop COVID and the pandemic, it’s only going to lower the deaths and prevent people from going to the hospital.
I don’t understand why some governments are saying that the vaccine is going to end the pandemic.
 

flatiron

Legendary Member
Gold
Platinum Gold
Joined
Mar 16, 2016
Posts
827
Media
0
Likes
1,909
Points
413
Location
Canberra (Australian Capital Territory, Australia)
Sexuality
50% Straight, 50% Gay
Gender
Male
The vaccine only prevents you from getting a really bad case of COVID and ending up in the hospital. You can still get and transmit the virus just as easily.
The vaccine as it is right now it’s not going to stop COVID and the pandemic, it’s only going to lower the deaths and prevent people from going to the hospital.
I don’t understand why some governments are saying that the vaccine is going to end the pandemic.

That's not what I've been hearing. My understanding is that while a fully vaccinated person can still contract the virus, the virus will be significantly weaker leaving the body than it was when it entered. So yes, they can still transmit, but they transmit a vastly weaker version of the virus. This means each fully vaccinated person lowers the risk for themselves, and for everyone else too. (I've also heard that vaccinations slow the speed of mutations too, but I don't know if this is true or not. I'd like to think it is.)

The vaccine is designed to lower hospitalisations and deaths, not to lower the number of infections. We'll probably never eradicate covid and we'll probably never stop people being infected with it, but we do have a way to help keep people out of hospital. That's a good thing, right? If we get to a point where people might catch it but it's no worse than a cold, we won't have to worry about it anymore.

Here's an example I've been thinking about lately. In Australia, we had an outbreak in Melbourne last year where we saw around 800 new infections per day at its peak. We have an outbreak in Sydney right now where we are quickly approaching the same frequency of infections. In the Melbourne outbreak last year, the worst day for deaths was 59 in a single day. In Sydney so far, the peak death rate is 7. Why is there such a big difference in the number of deaths in two different outbreaks where the number of infections is pretty much equal? Because we didn't have a vaccine during the Melbourne outbreak, but we have one now. The vaccine is the difference.

(By the way, I know these are VERY small numbers compared to what the rest of the world went through last year. Australia doesn't know the pain places like the US, Brazil, China and Europe experienced last year.)

My point in posting this is to say that, at least statistically speaking, there is a huge amount of evidence in a comparison of these two scenarios to suggest that vaccines are the going to be the quickest and most effective way out of this.
 

James0909

Superior Member
Verified
Gold
Joined
Sep 26, 2019
Posts
642
Media
3
Likes
6,091
Points
413
Location
Perth (Western Australia, Australia)
Verification
View
Gender
Male
The vaccine only prevents you from getting a really bad case of COVID and ending up in the hospital. You can still get and transmit the virus just as easily.
The vaccine as it is right now it’s not going to stop COVID and the pandemic, it’s only going to lower the deaths and prevent people from going to the hospital.
I don’t understand why some governments are saying that the vaccine is going to end the pandemic.

And this is exactly why vaccine passports are completely useless from an epidemiological standpoint. Yet they’re still pushing them.

It’s obviously that the virus is only second to the governments lust for surveillance and emergency powers.
 

James0909

Superior Member
Verified
Gold
Joined
Sep 26, 2019
Posts
642
Media
3
Likes
6,091
Points
413
Location
Perth (Western Australia, Australia)
Verification
View
Gender
Male
That's not what I've been hearing. My understanding is that while a fully vaccinated person can still contract the virus, the virus will be significantly weaker leaving the body than it was when it entered. So yes, they can still transmit, but they transmit a vastly weaker version of the virus. This means each fully vaccinated person lowers the risk for themselves, and for everyone else too. (I've also heard that vaccinations slow the speed of mutations too, but I don't know if this is true or not. I'd like to think it is.)

The vaccine is designed to lower hospitalisations and deaths, not to lower the number of infections. We'll probably never eradicate covid and we'll probably never stop people being infected with it, but we do have a way to help keep people out of hospital. That's a good thing, right? If we get to a point where people might catch it but it's no worse than a cold, we won't have to worry about it anymore.

Here's an example I've been thinking about lately. In Australia, we had an outbreak in Melbourne last year where we saw around 800 new infections per day at its peak. We have an outbreak in Sydney right now where we are quickly approaching the same frequency of infections. In the Melbourne outbreak last year, the worst day for deaths was 59 in a single day. In Sydney so far, the peak death rate is 7. Why is there such a big difference in the number of deaths in two different outbreaks where the number of infections is pretty much equal? Because we didn't have a vaccine during the Melbourne outbreak, but we have one now. The vaccine is the difference.

(By the way, I know these are VERY small numbers compared to what the rest of the world went through last year. Australia doesn't know the pain places like the US, Brazil, China and Europe experienced last year.)

My point in posting this is to say that, at least statistically speaking, there is a huge amount of evidence in a comparison of these two scenarios to suggest that vaccines are the going to be the quickest and most effective way out of this.

There have been multiple cases of fully vaccinated nurses in Australia passing it on to patients and causing outbreaks.

This has happened multiple times in both NSW and VIC within the past week.
 

Klingsor

Worshipped Member
Joined
Mar 3, 2011
Posts
10,888
Media
4
Likes
11,638
Points
293
Location
Champaign (Illinois, United States)
Sexuality
80% Straight, 20% Gay
Gender
Male
The vaccine only prevents you from getting a really bad case of COVID and ending up in the hospital. You can still get and transmit the virus just as easily.
The vaccine as it is right now it’s not going to stop COVID and the pandemic, it’s only going to lower the deaths and prevent people from going to the hospital.
I don’t understand why some governments are saying that the vaccine is going to end the pandemic.

Your first sentence answers the question of your last sentence. If everyone's vaccinated, very few will get really sick or die. I'd call that ending the pandemic.
 

flatiron

Legendary Member
Gold
Platinum Gold
Joined
Mar 16, 2016
Posts
827
Media
0
Likes
1,909
Points
413
Location
Canberra (Australian Capital Territory, Australia)
Sexuality
50% Straight, 50% Gay
Gender
Male
And this is exactly why vaccine passports are completely useless from an epidemiological standpoint. Yet they’re still pushing them.

It’s obviously that the virus is only second to the governments lust for surveillance and emergency powers.

Dunno about you, but I want my life back ASAP. There are only two reasons why vaccine passports haven't been implemented in Australia. The first is we're no longer a country, we're 8 mini-countries with 8 sets of rules and 8 administrations who've never seen this much power in their lives. The second is it's difficult. Classic Australian response: too hard to fix, don't worry about it, she'll be right.

Meanwhile...
 
  • Like
Reactions: Phantom253

flatiron

Legendary Member
Gold
Platinum Gold
Joined
Mar 16, 2016
Posts
827
Media
0
Likes
1,909
Points
413
Location
Canberra (Australian Capital Territory, Australia)
Sexuality
50% Straight, 50% Gay
Gender
Male
There have been multiple cases of fully vaccinated nurses in Australia passing it on to patients and causing outbreaks.

This has happened multiple times in both NSW and VIC within the past week.

but the RISK is significantly less. the RISK is about as minimal as we can get it, without shutting society down forever.

the RISK cannot be eliminated and we need to fucking learn this. we take risks every day from the moment we get out of bed to the moment late at night when we pop the cork on that fourth bottle of lockdown champagne.

long term, the only way you can eliminate risk from covid is to live inside your own private eco-bubble..... but you can minimise the risk tomorrow.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Klingsor

James0909

Superior Member
Verified
Gold
Joined
Sep 26, 2019
Posts
642
Media
3
Likes
6,091
Points
413
Location
Perth (Western Australia, Australia)
Verification
View
Gender
Male
but the RISK is significantly less. the RISK is about as minimal as we can get it, without shutting society down forever.

the RISK cannot be eliminated and we need to fucking learn this. we take risks every day from the moment we get out of bed to the moment late at night when we pop the cork on that fourth bottle of lockdown champagne.

long term, the only way you can eliminate risk from covid is to live inside your own private eco-bubble..... but you can minimise the risk tomorrow.

But now you’re just moving the goal posts and admitting that your first comment was at least partially incorrect.

Fully vaccinated people contracting, spreading and being hospitalised with the virus is happening at almost the same frequency. I implore you to look into what’s happening in Israel specifically.

I even mentioned before that state premiers have said they’ll still have restrictions at lockdowns even with 80% vaccinated. Israel has or is thinking about locking down again, and they’re already pushing booster shots with over 70% of over-18s vaccinated. This isn’t ending and life isn’t returning to pre-2020. Not as a result of this vaccine anyway. The writing is on the wall.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: flavors

James0909

Superior Member
Verified
Gold
Joined
Sep 26, 2019
Posts
642
Media
3
Likes
6,091
Points
413
Location
Perth (Western Australia, Australia)
Verification
View
Gender
Male
Dunno about you, but I want my life back ASAP. There are only two reasons why vaccine passports haven't been implemented in Australia. The first is we're no longer a country, we're 8 mini-countries with 8 sets of rules and 8 administrations who've never seen this much power in their lives. The second is it's difficult. Classic Australian response: too hard to fix, don't worry about it, she'll be right.

Meanwhile...

Vaccine passports won’t give you your life back. They’ll only pull you further from it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Djendn

Klingsor

Worshipped Member
Joined
Mar 3, 2011
Posts
10,888
Media
4
Likes
11,638
Points
293
Location
Champaign (Illinois, United States)
Sexuality
80% Straight, 20% Gay
Gender
Male
But now you’re just moving the goal posts and admitting that your first comment was at least partially incorrect.

Fully vaccinated people contracting, spreading and being hospitalised with the virus is happening at almost the same frequency. I implore you to look into what’s happening in Israel specifically.

Then look at what's happening in the U.S. specifically. Not what you're describing.
 
D

deleted12297741

Guest
Your first sentence answers the question of your last sentence. If everyone's vaccinated, very few will get really sick or die. I'd call that ending the pandemic.
The pandemic ends when there’s no more new COVID cases. If you don’t stop the spread of the virus, people are going to keep gettin sick and people are not going to stop getting really sick or dying. The vaccine needs to be more effective to put an end to this. The vaccine right now just gives a false sense of security. If it really made a difference the numbers would be already super low, and they’re not.
 

James0909

Superior Member
Verified
Gold
Joined
Sep 26, 2019
Posts
642
Media
3
Likes
6,091
Points
413
Location
Perth (Western Australia, Australia)
Verification
View
Gender
Male
Then look at what's happening in the U.S. specifically. Not what you're describing.

Whats happening in Israel and the UK is what I’m describing.

The CDC’s “99.5%” figure has clearly been manipulated. It’s not statistically possible to get those results based on global data. In the UK, 40% of hospitalisations had at least one vaccination, with almost 1 in 4 hospitalisations being fully vaccinated. In Israel, the majority of their hospitalisations are vaccinated. Those are both countries with a much higher vaccination rate than the US.
 

Klingsor

Worshipped Member
Joined
Mar 3, 2011
Posts
10,888
Media
4
Likes
11,638
Points
293
Location
Champaign (Illinois, United States)
Sexuality
80% Straight, 20% Gay
Gender
Male
The pandemic ends when there’s no more new COVID cases. If you don’t stop the spread of the virus, people are going to keep gettin sick and people are not going to stop getting really sick or dying. The vaccine needs to be more effective to put an end to this. The vaccine right now just gives a false sense of security. If it really made a difference the numbers would be already super low, and they’re not.

Nothing's going to eradicate Covid or completely prevent its spread, any more than the flu or the common cold. To insist on that high a bar to end a "pandemic" is to render the term meaningless.

In the U.S., the case numbers are rising again, but that's overwhelmingly because of the unvaccinated. They're the ones hospitalized or dying. For this country, at least, the need right now is not for better vaccines, but for more vaccinated.
 

James0909

Superior Member
Verified
Gold
Joined
Sep 26, 2019
Posts
642
Media
3
Likes
6,091
Points
413
Location
Perth (Western Australia, Australia)
Verification
View
Gender
Male
In the U.S., the case numbers are rising again, but that's overwhelmingly because of the unvaccinated. They're the ones hospitalized or dying. For this country, at least, the need right now is not for better vaccines, but for more vaccinated.

This is blatantly false though, as I’ve already said in my comments.
 
D

deleted12297741

Guest
Nothing's going to eradicate Covid or completely prevent its spread, any more than the flu or the common cold. To insist on that high a bar to end a "pandemic" is to render the term meaningless.

In the U.S., the case numbers are rising again, but that's overwhelmingly because of the unvaccinated. They're the ones hospitalized or dying. For this country, at least, the need right now is not for better vaccines, but for more vaccinated.
What’s the percentage of vaccinated people in the US?