Will You Take The Covid Vaccine?

[flatiron]

How is having to present your travel papers....I mean passport everywhere you go “getting your life back”?

The government is playing you like a fiddle.

i hate the fact that i need a 'travel permit' to cross a state border in my own country. i've studied the forces that brought the Australian colonies together in the 1880s/1890s at length, and i also know that the borders that defined the colonies way back then have no real meaning in 2021. i get ALL of that. i want us to be one country, and not 8 mini-countries. i hate that our PM DGAF and so now we have 8 regional dictators confusing the fuck out of everyone. i hate that my partner can't get home to see her sick parents in melbourne because victoria considers the ACT to be a 'red zone'. i hate that i can't see my own elderly parents in sydney because NSW is a fucking mess.

BUT.

I'm vaccinated. my partner is vaccinated. my parents are vaccinated. her parents are vaccinated. so why the hell are we locked down? i'm used to presenting a document when i travel overseas or when i return to australia, and if i have to do the same within australia for a year or so, i really don't fucking mind or care just so long as i can see my interstate family and friends again.

If people choose to get vaccinated, I think they should have freedom of movement, and showing a vaccination certificate on their phone ought to be enough to get them onto an interstate flight. If people choose not to, then... they don't.

 

[James0909]

i hate the fact that i need a 'travel permit' to cross a state border in my own country. i've studied the forces that brought the Australian colonies together in the 1880s/1890s at length, and i also know that the borders that defined the colonies way back then have no real meaning in 2021. i get ALL of that. i want us to be one country, and not 8 mini-countries. i hate that our PM DGAF and so now we have 8 regional dictators confusing the fuck out of everyone. i hate that my partner can't get home to see her sick parents in melbourne because victoria considers the ACT to be a 'red zone'. i hate that i can't see my own elderly parents in sydney because NSW is a fucking mess.

BUT.

I'm vaccinated. my partner is vaccinated. my parents are vaccinated. her parents are vaccinated. so why the hell are we locked down? i'm used to presenting a document when i travel overseas or when i return to australia, and if i have to do the same within australia for a year or so, i really don't fucking mind or care just so long as i can see my interstate family and friends again.

If people choose to get vaccinated, I think they should have freedom of movement, and showing a vaccination certificate on their phone ought to be enough to get them onto an interstate flight. If people choose not to, then... they don't.

But, they’re talking about freedom to work, not just to move. They’re talking about freedom to move within their own freaking suburb in order to shop or to eat out, not just to travel interstate or overseas. They’ve also said that there will be restrictions and lockdowns even when 80% are vaccinated (which you’ve ignored multiple times).

It’s not normal and I don’t accept it. Government can get fucked. They’re literally the reason I’m not complying. I haven’t been complying with the curfew, masks outdoors, nor the distance restrictions and exercise limits since lockdown 2. There’s no science behind it, and Dan voted against making the health advice public.

 

[Klingsor]

That’s literally not true. Vaccinated people are making up a significant portion of hospitalisations around the world. The CDC’s “99.5%” figure is blatant political spin.

Also, here: https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/30/cdc...tts-covid-outbreak-were-fully-vaccinated.html

The very article you cite repeats what you call "political spin"—that "roughly 97% of new hospitalizations and 99.5% of deaths in the U.S. are among unvaccinated individuals."

The article also notes the CDC's entirely logical claim that "as population-level vaccination coverage increases, vaccinated persons are likely to represent a larger proportion of Covid cases"—exactly the point I made in my previous post.

With that in mind, it's not surprising that the specific spreader event the article mentions, where three-quarters of the new cases were among vaccinated people, occurred in Massachusetts, since that state has the second highest vaccination rate in the country. If mostly everyone is vaccinated, it's going to be mostly vaccinated people contracting the virus.

Finally, note that of those vaccinated people who caught the disease, just a little over one percent were hospitalized, and none of them died. I'll take those odds.

 

[James0909]

Likewise my friend. Open your mind. Research won’t kill you. Intrinsic trust in the powers that be, might though

May I suggest some decent lube for the continuous ass fucking you’re receiving from the government?

I bet you wear a mask whilst driving alone lol

They actually mandated that in Queensland Australia for one of the previous lockdowns:

Queensland Health

 

[flatiron]

They’ve also said that there will be restrictions and lockdowns even when 80% are vaccinated (which you’ve ignored multiple times).

Haven't ignored, just haven't acknowledged. There's a difference.
So get vaccinated, and help us all out. Or you can be part of the problem. Up to you.
Nighty night.

 

[James0909]

The very article you cite repeats what you call "political spin"—that "roughly 97% of new hospitalizations and 99.5% of deaths in the U.S. are among unvaccinated individuals."

The article also notes the CDC's entirely logical claim that "as population-level vaccination coverage increases, vaccinated persons are likely to represent a larger proportion of Covid cases"—exactly the point I made in my previous post.

With that in mind, it's not surprising that the specific spreader event the article mentions, where three-quarters of the new cases were among vaccinated people, occurred in Massachusetts, since that state has the second highest vaccination rate in the country. If mostly everyone is vaccinated, it's going to be mostly vaccinated people getting sick.

Finally, note that of those vaccinated people who caught the disease, just a little over one percent were hospitalized, and none of them died. I'll take those odds.

You know the article has two different data sources, right?

The CDC one is compromised based on global averages and basic statistical probability. The primary data source of the outbreak is a local department that’s clearly reporting accurately.

You’re making the same mistake that Australians are doing by pushing ahead with vaccinations as a silver bullet, despite literally every other significant data source saying otherwise.

The next source from Canada literally disproves that 99% figure.

 

[James0909]

Haven't ignored, just haven't acknowledged. There's a difference.
So get vaccinated, and help us all out. Or you can be part of the problem. Up to you.
Nighty night.

Cool. Let me know how it is to be banned from seeing your relatives when the goalposts have moved again

The government is the problem, not me. Get your priorities straight, and I’ll keep defying unscientific restrictions.

 

[Industrialsize]

Cool. Let me know how it is to be banned from seeing your relatives when the goalposts have moved again

The government is the problem, not me. Get your priorities straight, and I’ll keep defying unscientific restrictions.

Are you UNvaccinated?

 

[James0909]

Are you UNvaccinated?

Our state governments have said that there will still be restrictions and lockdowns even when 80% are vaccinated, which will apply to everyone.

Getting vaccinated with the false hope of gaining freedom is futile.

 

[Industrialsize]

Our state governments have said that there will still be restrictions and lockdowns even when 80% are vaccinated, which will apply to everyone.

Getting vaccinated with the false hope of gaining freedom is futile.

Are you UNvaccinated?

 

[James0909]

Are you UNvaccinated?

80% of Australia is unvaccinated lol. I’m not eligible for one according to the criteria even if I wanted it.

 

[Klingsor]

You know the article has two different data sources, right?

The CDC one is compromised based on global averages and basic statistical probability. The primary data source of the outbreak is a local department that’s clearly reporting accurately.

You’re making the same mistake that Australians are doing by pushing ahead with vaccinations as a silver bullet, despite literally every other significant data source saying otherwise.

Data from a local department is a much smaller sample size, so even if it's accurate, it may not be that indicative. And you've ignored my point that this particular outbreak occurred in Masschussetts, an already highly vaccinated state, which necessarily affects the numbers.

When Massachusetts turns into a horror show like such low-vaccination states as Mississippi, Louisiana, or Texas, then we can talk.

As for vaccination as a silver bullet . . . no. I'll happily go with whatever better alternative you can suggest.

 

[James0909]

Data from a local department is a much smaller sample size, so even if it's accurate, it may not be that indicative. And you've ignored my point that this particular outbreak occurred in Masschussetts, an already highly vaccinated state, which necessarily affects the numbers.

When Massachusetts turns into a horror show like such low-vaccination states as Mississippi, Louisiana, or Texas, then we can talk.

You’re ignoring the second source from Canada.

And your logic is faulty. A highly unvaccinated state will affect the numbers in exactly the same way that a highly vaccinated state will. Your point is irrelevant in that regard.

 

[Klingsor]

You’re ignoring the second source from Canada.

And your logic is faulty. A highly unvaccinated state will affect the numbers in exactly the same way that a highly vaccinated state will. Your point is irrelevant in that regard.

The numbers will always be affected by the vaccination rate, high or low. The real point is that states with a high vaccination rate are doing better than states with a low vaccination rate. That's hardly irrelevant.

 

[James0909]

The numbers will always be affected by the vaccination rate, high or low. The real point is that states with a high vaccination rate are doing better than states with a low vaccination rate. That's hardly irrelevant.

That’s not holding true when considering countries outside the US.

 

[Klingsor]

That’s not holding true when considering countries outside the US.

Comparison of one country's statistics with another is notoriously difficult, given the multitude of variables and the differences in recording procedures.

My larger question, then, is what are you arguing? That vaccines are of little or no use? I don't think the data, tenuous as it may be, supports that claim. So until someone comes up with a better alternative, I'm still in favor of vaccinations, while observing other prudent safeguards to limit the spread of the disease. What would you have us do differently?

 

[Industrialsize]

In a highly vaccinated population, a COVID outbreak is unsustainable:

 

[James0909]

In a highly vaccinated population, a COVID outbreak is unsustainable:
View attachment 40402131 View attachment 40402161

Data from the UK is showing the complete opposite:

also, your snippet is just that, a snippet. The virus has peaks and troughs. All you’ve done is cherry pick the results from a downward trend spanning over a month.

That’s extremely intellectually dishonest.

 

[James0909]

Comparison of one country's statistics with another is notoriously difficult, given the multitude of variables and the differences in recording procedures.

My larger question, then, is what are you arguing? That vaccines are of little or no use? I don't think the data, tenuous as it may be, supports that claim. So until someone comes up with a better alternative, I'm still in favor of vaccinations, while observing other prudent safeguards to limit the spread of the disease. What would you have us do differently?

No, I’m saying that the vaccines clearly aren’t the silver bullet that many are proclaiming them to be. I said that in my initial comment and I haven’t deviated from that.

 

[Industrialsize]

also, your snippet is just that, a snippet. The virus has peaks and troughs. All you’ve done is cherry pick the results from a downward trend spanning over a month.

That’s extremely intellectually dishonest.

The "provincetown cluster" started in mid-july and is now ending in mid-august. No cherry picking was done regarding this event.