Wisconsin Democrats

Discussion in 'Politics' started by BF2K, Mar 13, 2011.

  1. BF2K

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    What a sad state of affairs. Elected officials that leave the state to avoid representing the "people's voice" as representatives in a democratic process. I'm sorry but there is NO excuse for the way these people behaved. They should be recalled and replaced by people that are willing to actually stand up for their beliefs, in the arena of ideas rather than threats.
    Wisconsin Senate Democrats defend absence - USATODAY.com
     
  2. ThickMeatJacker

    ThickMeatJacker New Member

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    For those of us who live here, which I am sure you do not, and have representation by one of the 14 democrats in question, we support them. They did the best they could to try and stop a stinking pile of shit bill from passing. Which they succeed in doing for 3 weeks until the GOP decided that they had to revert to their standard tactic of subverting the law, and incidentally proving union busting bill was not a financial issue, by taking all the spending issues out of the final bill to pass it. They are in gross violation of the State's open meeting law.

    But I suspect as usual, you don't really care about fact. You are here just to provoke like a good GOP kool-aide drinker. So have a nice day.

    Didn't some one say not to feed the troll? I guess I did. Sorry in advance.
     
  3. houtx48

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    While I don't agree with much of your post. I see your were wise enough to put a link in to prevent haranguing and vilification.
     
  4. chicagosam

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    Don't feed the trolls
     
  5. B_VinylBoy

    B_VinylBoy New Member

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    Some people will view the actions of the fourteen Democrats as heroic and brave. Others will call them cowardly because the media propagated their actions as "fleeing" or "running away" to avoid a vote. That all determines if you're severely partisan to one side or the other, and the OP is clearly one of those people.

    At the end of the day, it's still the Democratic process. Democrats found a loophole in the system to try and get what they wanted and it almost worked. Considering the means that the GOP in Wisconsin took to pass a bill banning collective bargaining rights, it's obvious that they play just as dirty as the rest. The only difference is that we can tell with the end result who actually represented the "voice of the people" and who stood for the "voice of big corporation".
     
  6. Industrialsize

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  7. helgaleena

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    The 14 Democrats are actually taking big fines for every day they stay away from voting. Popular opinion is for them ftmp. They tried their best. And legislation passed in their absence is being challenged on violating the state constitution.
     
  8. my64sqin

    my64sqin New Member

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    I think that the republicans are grooming the Wisconsin Govenor to take Kahdaffi's place once he leaves office!
     
  9. houtx48

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    Hmmmmm The Koch brothers may be looking to annex Libya to Koch Industries. Looks like they have about gotten Wi.
     
  10. BF2K

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    WTF do the Koch brothers have to do with this? Elected officials, elected to represent their constituency, left the state so they couldn't be forced to attain quorum in the Senate. What would you think if all the Democrats in Congress left the country and went to a beach in Thailand in order to NOT make a decision. Sorry, but kind of reminds me of Obama's term in the Senate where he voted "not present" most of the time.
     
  11. Who_Dun_It

    Who_Dun_It New Member

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    The political group they helped fund supported Walker and a large number of Tea Party Candidates.
     
  12. houtx48

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    Sweetie if you are going to be a good troll you need to be informed on the subject other wise you are just talking out your ass.
     
  13. maxcok

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    For crap's sake, why will you not use the quote button? Are you above all that?

    It's very confusing and misleading. It looks like you're responding to Who Dun It, when I assume you're responding to BF2K, but only because I'm informed on the political backstory. You can't assume that's the case with even a majority of the readers here. Just maybe it would be a good thing to help educate some of them.
     
  14. Industrialsize

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    It's called a Wisconsin Filibuster. It isn't any different than when the republican, United States Senators,for the past 2.5 years, did NOT allow multiple pieces of legislation to come to the Senate floor for an up or down vote by "filibustering". And Obama did NOT vote "present" most of the time. If you'd taken the time to educate yourself and not parrot this right wing talking point, you would have learned that their is a tradition of voting "present" in the Illinois Legislature. A Senator would vote "present" if they couldn't support the legislation being voted on, BUT, would support it with some changes. It is a way to "signal"that their is compromise to be reached if whoever introduced the legislation was willing.
     
  15. BF2K

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    "Filibustering" is within the parliamentary or congressional "rules of conduct" leaving the State or the Country and voting "not present" are NOT!!!
     
  16. Cuddler

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    Funny how you never responded to the second post in this thread.
     
  17. itsthepopei

    itsthepopei Active Member

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    "Facepalm" The idea that people are trying(none to successfully) is that the action was neither cowardly nor technically illegal and had the same political and logistical effect of a filibusterer(which by the way isn't in the Wisconsin constitution). Furthermore it was a huge political gambol as they had no way of knowing whether or not the action would lead to them loosing there reelections. In hind sight it was the right thing to do and paid off huge political dividends with many republican Senators up for recall i think history will not agree with you and your sad corporatist talking points.

    slow to learn are those weak in the force
     
  18. maxcok

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    How does one vote "not present" in the Senate? It is possible (and common) to vote "present" if the member is in the chamber but not voting. It's done all the time for various reasons by members of both parties, particularly when a member knows a measure will move in his/her favor with or without his/her vote. It's not possible to vote at all if one is not present. You obviously don't know what the hell you're talking about.

    Furthermore, do you realize that literally dozens of votes may be taken on a bill before the final version becomes law or is ultimately defeated, as it passes through any number of revisions and compromises? That's how you end up with members saying things like "I voted yes before voting no", comments which are then edited and taken out of context for political gain. Isolating interim votes on a bill and totalling up a member's "yes", "no", or "present" votes are misleading and deceptive political tactics used to create mindless talking points and sway the ignorant and uneducated. Again, you don't know what you're talking about, or you're being deliberately disingenuous, or both. I vote "both".

    Can you cite any provisions in either the Wisconsin or US Constitutions that would classify a legislator's absence as a violation of rules or unconstitutional? As far as events in Wisconsin are concerned, it will ultimately be up to the courts to decide whether the Democrats' sick days or the Republicans' ramrodding the measure through without a quorum was unlawful or unconstitutional. Regardless, there's a strong case to be made that with the Republicans clearly "negotiating" in bad faith and contrary to the will of the people, the Democrats' action was at worst a justifiable form of civil disobedience. That last is my personal opinion.
     
    #18 maxcok, Mar 16, 2011
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2011
  19. helgaleena

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    This is false btw. I know; I'm in WI not France
     
  20. B_VinylBoy

    B_VinylBoy New Member

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    To be precise, because you never are... :rolleyes:
    The filibuster is a TYPE of parliamentary procedure use by an individual to extend debate, allowing a lone member to delay or entirely prevent a vote on a given proposal. It is a form of obstruction in a legislature or other decision-making body. It says nothing about it happening within the walls of our Congress or how it is implemented. That part you pulled out of your nether region just to talk nonsense.

    In Wisconsin, to pass any legislative measure concerning the budget a certain number of Senators must be present in order for a vote to happen. The voluntary absence of the 14 Democratic Senators brought the grand total of present Senators below that necessary number. This represented their form of the filibuster and forced the remaining Republican Senators and Scott Walker to negotiate if they wanted to pass the financial legislation they proposed that included the repeal of collective bargaining. Alas, since all of these moves by Walker weren't about the economy to begin with they found a loophole to try and pass a piece of legislation that wasn't "budget specific" and focused on the one part that Democrats wanted to maintain even after they agreed to negotiate on everything else.

    Most people realize that you're not for those who lean towards the left. However, It would really help your arguments if you knew what the heck you were talking about, BF2K. But constantly, you demonstrate that you don't... you really, REALLY don't.
     
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