Woman trouble please help

Discussion in 'Relationships, Discrimination, and Jealousy' started by Imported, Jul 22, 2003.

  1. Imported

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2000
    Messages:
    56,713
    Likes Received:
    55
    ItalianStallion: I have been with the same girl for a long time, about three and a half years. I am only eighteen and we have been together ever sense I was fifteen I love her very much and we are engaged. I know that I am young don't even tell me that. Anyways about the problem, she says that when we met she was depending on her parents, and now she depends on me, (I have a good job I am moved out and living on my own). She says that she has never had time to feel independant and that she wants to feel unattached and feel independant on her own and get herself a good job and such. So she wants to be just friends for a while until she figures everything out. The problem is that I don't feel like anything was wrong and it is like a punishment to me, we have only had sex with each other, and she wants that to stay the way it is. She says that it is ok if we are with other people as long as we don't get in a relationship with another person or have sex with another person. I really don't want to be physical with anyone else. I really don't understand where she is coming from, and I would really like anyone to help me understand a little better. When we are together we still act like a couple, and she seems to be cool with that, she wants to act like a couple with me. She says that we will for sure get back together, and that I am right for her and she wants to marry me and have kids and grow old with me, but she says for a little while that she wants to be on her own unattached because she says she has never been able to feel like that and she says she doesn't want to be forty years old and feel like she missed out. I don't feel like I am missing out on anything, so I really don't get it. She told me not to worry and that if I acted like a man about it then we would get back together sooner, and that by going through this she says that our relationship will be stronger than ever before. She says she has to do this before our relationship can go any farther, so please someone help me understand what I am supposed to do, and what is going on in her head. I have never been so confused in my life.
     
  2. Imported

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2000
    Messages:
    56,713
    Likes Received:
    55
    bustyredhead: Interesting problem. Nothing all that unusual, honestly, on either side. You sound like you're truly in love with this girl, and that's great. It sounds like she loves you too. Congrats. :)

    Now, what's up with her wanting to 'be with others'? Think about it like this; she feels that commitment with you in marriage might isolate her from having friendships with other people. She wants to make sure she can experience the things she fears she might miss if she was to marry you right away. The best way to deal with this is to compromise. Explain to her how much you love her, and how you're willing to allow each other to explore those things that make you individuals, and enjoy some things that might be best enjoyed apart. In other words, while you're gonna be a close couple, you can both make time for yourselves, and enjoy some time with other people or doing other things without feeling that the spouse needs to be involved. So if she wants to have coffee with some girl friends, for example, she doesn't have to worry about inviting you along. Likewise, you may want to enjoy some sports match (e.g., football or basketball) with your guy friends, and she'll let you have that time with your buds.

    I suspect that she'll still want some time now to collect her thoughts, and that's okay. Don't stress out. She still wants you, believe me. She's just making sure that you're what she thinks you are, and wants to make sure that she's going to enjoy her life with you. Make your time with her special, and let her relax when she's apart from you. If you're as in love with one another as I suspect you are, I see good times in your future. Just let the good times roll. :)

    - Nene (Knows What It's Like)
     
  3. Imported

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2000
    Messages:
    56,713
    Likes Received:
    55
    AnonyMs: She is wise...

    As I read through your post, I sense your confidence that even at such a young age, you can take care of yourself. All she is wanting to do is to have the same assurance and confidence.... if need be, she could take care of herself. Once she has that confidence, she will be an even more loving partner as she will know she chooses to be with you rather than thinking she has to be with you in order to survive.

    This is a time of great growth and discovery for her.

    Let her know how proud you are of her and her ability to make it on her own. Continue to cherish her and know that her love for you is a gift.
     
  4. Imported

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2000
    Messages:
    56,713
    Likes Received:
    55
    Ineligible: My first reaction was that this seemed almost a gender reversal, because traditionally it is males who are supposed to want their freedom; but there's no logical reason why it shouldn't be this way. It is usual now for both sexes to have a period during which they are unattached and answerable only to themselves, during which they are living by themselves and learning how to stand on their own legs. By becoming a couple so early you are missing that, and though it's by no means a necessary condition for life, I can understand that your fiancée is getting worried about what she is missing.

    By wanting to feel unattached, and yet still requiring you not to get into any other relationships, she is trying to have her cake and eat it too, and you would be within your rights to say no. However, since that aspect doesn't worry you, and since it might be indeed a good idea for her to get this out of her system, I think you won't want to say no. However, you should have the rules very clear between you. Will the engagement still be on or not? - That is, are you still committed to each other? How long will this period last? (I would strongly urge that any commitment to see no-one else should lead to either marriage or release within an agreed time - otherwise you will feel you are just being strung along.)

    I won't deny, I feel this is a dip in the relationship. However, by no means does that mean the future looks bleak. My wife and I broke up three times before we were married, and now we have been married twenty years with no serious problems. People do have second thoughts and reservations and misgivings before any serious undertaking, but that doesn't mean they don't take it seriously. I must admit to being a bit disheartened by the statement "She told me not to worry and that if I acted like a man about it then we would get back together sooner, and that by going through this she says that our relationship will be stronger than ever before". That may be sincere, but it leaves a somewhat sour taste in my mouth. It strikes me as glib and blustering, and a little bullying. But it would be wrong to attempt to judge character on so little.

    At least one thing I am sure of - you don't deserve punishment and it is not intended to be so. It's more likely your fiancée is also confused about her feelings. And you don't have any real choice but to help her work through them. Just don't make it open-ended.
     
  5. Imported

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2000
    Messages:
    56,713
    Likes Received:
    55
    jacko: Hey,

    Don't pay attention to the insecurities and worries you're obviously feeling right now. I am 18. I broke up with my long-term girlfriend about 3 months ago, and the reasons were EXACTLY the same as yours. So I know precisely how it feels.

    It will hurt for a long time, and it'll make you cry, but I promise things will get better. She will go off and fuck some other boys, and you will go and fuck some other girls, but both of you will come to realise that nobody else is quite as good. This was, in fact, what happened to my parents -- they met when they were 15, broke up and got back together again about 108 times, and then ended up married when they were 30.

    It's hard to think objectively in your situation (believe me, I know), but try. The time you spend apart can be perfectly beneficial if you use it to develop your career, make some money, progress towards whatever it is that you want to do in your life. That is what I'm doing at the moment. When you do get back together -- it might be in six months, it might be in six years -- you will both be the better for it.

    I haven't explained myself very well, but really, really, REALLY, there is nothing to worry about. I'm talking from extensive experience -- trust me. Just don't go all soppy and sentimental on her: if you carry on acting exactly the way you acted when you were together, she is more likely to remember how much she loves you.
     
  6. Imported

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2000
    Messages:
    56,713
    Likes Received:
    55
    doghorn: Italian,

    Listen to what jacko says. Exactly. He is wise far beyond his 18 years.

    You have to let her go for a while. It will help both of you. You will grow into yourselves. If you were to stay together and not spend time apart (and also with other people), you would probably never have as strong a permanent relationship with her as you could.

    It will hurt like hell, but there's nothing you can do about that. You just have to ride it out. You will survive. If you and she are meant to be together, you will be, and you'll be stronger for it and a better partner.

    Ron
     
  7. Imported

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2000
    Messages:
    56,713
    Likes Received:
    55
    TragicWhiteKnight: From what you've said, it seems more like a plea for independence than infidelity, and a perfectly sympathetic one at that.

    Given you met in high-school, I'm assuming you both share the same group of friends and she admits to being dependent (on her father, then you), so naturally she need to expand her horizons. She may have spent too much time hanging out with friends of yours whom she wouldn't have bothered to know otherwise; or just suffer a lack of purpose. But she still has faith in your love and she probably won't lose that.

    The worst thing you could do would be to regulate or restrict her actions, since she's made it clear she doesn't want to even kiss anyone else. She's not trying to find herself, so she shouldn't 'change' too much; a hobby, a good job, a new group of people is all she needs.

    Working through these kinds of frustration is what a lasting relationship is all about.

    But, what do I know, I'm an idiot.
     
  8. Imported

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2000
    Messages:
    56,713
    Likes Received:
    55
    Rusty2kma: I agree with everthing said.It really doesn't matter if your 18 or 42.This same thing happens to all age groups and through all walks of life.Somone mentioned a time limit earlier in the thread.I agree with this to.A time limit of six months or more.By this time she should know if she wants to be with you or not.But take heed....by the way you describe everything it all sounds good. But the part about suppose to take it like a man,hmmm,I don't like that at all........She may be pulling the strings right now in your relationship but she can't tell you how you how to feel.But it sounds like she knows your going to be hurting and she's just trying to lessen the blow.
     
  9. Imported

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2000
    Messages:
    56,713
    Likes Received:
    55
    gigantikok: she want you, man, don't worry about that. There's a saying that i'm sure you know. I not exactly sure how it goes. It has to do with releasing a bird, and if the bird flies back to you, know it always wanted you to begin with. Anyway, just let her go for a bit. She's not being unfair. The last thing she wants is for you to get overly clingy, that can be a major turn off for a girl.
     
  10. Imported

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2000
    Messages:
    56,713
    Likes Received:
    55
    bustyredhead: We're more evil than that... there's a desired range of clinginess, unique to each woman, that you have to find. Right now, she wants to leave her anchor (Ital.) a bit behind, but not too far. Let her go, let her know you'll be there for her if she ever needs help, and let her figure out what she wants. Don't put too much pressure on her; it sounds almost like she might be testing your trust in her fidelity, so don't get too jealous. Best of luck!

    - Nene (Thumbs Up!)
     
  11. Max

    Max New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2002
    Messages:
    938
    Likes Received:
    1
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    UK
    Stallion

    You've had a whole bunch of advice, more than you wanted, maybe. On the one hand I can see exactly what everyone else has been saying .. your fiancee needs some space, maybe so that she can make a final 100% commitment to you without feeling that she has gone from being a child to a married woman without any stage of freedom in between. You need to give her what she asks for, IMHO.

    But I'm not sure I agree (-- at all! --) with Bustyredhead about the clinginess. It isn't up to you to find her 'preferred range', I would say, it is more a matter of her needing space to make her mind up. I agree with ineligible that you need to set some term for this period of separation. She knows you love her ... that is a given ... you have made it very clear to her, obviously. The question is more the other way about, maybe. She knows you are there for her, you are entitled to be certain that she will be there for you.

    But my observation is that many women respond better to a man when he isn't always automatically there for her, when she has to work a bit to secure his 100%commitment. It seems to be the natural way of things to me. That is how it was when I met the girl I married (and am still married to) ... I always made sure that she saw less of me than she wanted. In other words that she always wanted to see more of me! It might seem like game playing (though in fact at the time we first met I probably had a much busier lifestyle than she had anyway) .. but I can tell you it that for me it worked like a dream.

    My own advice would be, back off just a bit, give her space, let her make the running. Don't 'cling' AT ALL, even if it is hard not to. Good luck.
     
  12. Imported

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2000
    Messages:
    56,713
    Likes Received:
    55
    gigantikok: In all honesty, i TOTALLY agree with Max. Women can severly be turned off by clinginess. I know one of my old relationships went to hell because we saw too much of each other and I got overly clingy. You obviously can't generalize for all woman kind whether or not they dislike clinginess, but just to be safe in this situation... as you've heard already, don't overdo it.
     
  13. Imported

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2000
    Messages:
    56,713
    Likes Received:
    55
    bustyredhead: I'm biased because I am fairly clingy, and the old line, "Flattery will get you everywhere," applies quite well to me, when done right. So I'm trying to understand this from that bias. lol

    Anyways, what I meant to say is that he and she should figure out how 'together' they want to be. She does need some time totally free for this, but I'd think that they'd want to figure out where they stand on that together. But what do I know. Space is what's keeping me from the guy I love, and no more. lol

    - Nene (Velcro-ey)
     
  14. Imported

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2000
    Messages:
    56,713
    Likes Received:
    55
    ItalianStallion: You guys are right about the clinginess, she really doesn't like it at all, and she doesn't want to be physical with me often during this time. I know that she may be physical with other guys, but jacko I want to let you know that some people have a little thing called morals, and I won't be having sex with other people, and neither will she. She is a one man girl, she was crushed for months when we had sex for the first time because it was pre-marital. What she means about the being a man about this is basically she wants me to hold my tounge. I have a hard time not blurting out what ever is on my mind, like when some guy calls her I might say "oh is that one of the guys who you sucked the cock of last night" and I tend to bring up our situation and when we will get back together fully. She still considers me her fiance` but our engagement is on hold. The thing that really bothers me is that she tells me to be with other girls and do anything other than sexual intercourse. Oral sex is ok (I know it is still sex and blah, blah, blah) anything other than a penis entering a vagina is ok basically. But I do not have an urge to be with other girls at all. I know that many of you have said that I should set a time frame. I feel that I do not need to because she tells me that I am the one, she will be with me forever, and that she just needs to do this to feel fulfilled. She told me that I can ask her to come back on 9/20 because that is the last Saturday before we go back to school and she says the summer might be enough time for her. I am not too concerned about it, but the lack of sexual action is horrible and I refruse to get it else where. All of your advise has been great, I know that my best bet is to hold my tounge, act like a gentleman, and not be needy or clingy. It's really tough to deal with, I have been through a lot in my life, but this is probably the hardest thing I have had to do.
     
  15. Imported

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2000
    Messages:
    56,713
    Likes Received:
    55
    AnonyMs: [quote author=ItalianStallion link=board=relationships;num=1058851299;start=0#13 date=07/23/03 at 22:48:53] basically she wants me to hold my tounge. I have a hard time not blurting out what ever is on my mind, like when some guy calls her I might say "oh is that one of the guys who you sucked the cock of last night" [/quote]
    Whoooaaaaa, there big fella! To say something like that to her borders on being verbally abusive... If my fella said something like that to me when it was uncalled for but based on his own insecurities and jealousies, that relationship would be over pretty darn quick.

    There may be bigger problems here than you think, my friend.....
     
  16. Imported

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2000
    Messages:
    56,713
    Likes Received:
    55
    ItalianStallion: no, no, no. I wouldn't ever actually say that, I am smarter than a stump, and that's saying a lot when you look at a lot of guys. That comment is way over exaggerated, I was only trying to get my point out, and my point is that it is hard not to say something that I know I'll regret later, when I put that post up there I was rather frusterated. I would never verbally abuse my lady, I just have a stupid tendancy to say little comments to get a spark out of her. I have a great deal of respect for her, and the fact that she decided to tell me about her feelings in advance I think is great, I would rather go through this little bit of time apart, rather than have her explode one day and truly hurt some feelings. I have to look at all the advantages of everything. Since I have posted this topic I have been feeling a lot better about the situation, your imput is really helping me a lot I would like to keep you guys informed on how things go, and they seem to be going pretty well, the cliginess is still a problem for me, yesterday she told me to back off a little, and today she told me I was being shady. :-/

    eh, I'll figure it out.
     
  17. Max

    Max New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2002
    Messages:
    938
    Likes Received:
    1
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    UK
    I'll risk saying somethjing else, I.S.

    From your last couple of posts, it looks to me as if your fiancee wants to have things both ways. In other words, she wants to put your engagement on hold, but still feels she can control you by telling you what you may and may not do.

    You obviously love her a lot, as a lot of men would in no way put up with this sort of treatment. Just be a little careful here ... it sounds to me as if you could get badly hurt.
     
  18. Imported

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2000
    Messages:
    56,713
    Likes Received:
    55
    Rusty2kma: I was thinking the same thing....Alot of guys....try like most guys.

    I.S.- You sound like a very paitence and caring guy.I hope everything works out the way you want.Good luck.And please let us know how it goes.
     
  19. Imported

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2000
    Messages:
    56,713
    Likes Received:
    55
    gigantikok: I think the progression of your posts are extremely interesting to read, ItalianStallion. At the beginning you seriously make it sound like mutually, you two are made for each other. That you love her enough to let her go, despite your insecurities, and that she knows you will always be her man. It sounds kinda sweet, and frankly, a classic plot to a love story. What i write next is obviously my opinion, and I don't mean to hurt nor to offend. If you are easily offended, please stop reading now, but i will give you my honest opinion...

    As you started to give out little hints, i started to realize that this post might not be an accurate description of your life. From what it sounds like, you might be writing what you precieve as opposed to what might actually be reality. It's really interesting, but I think your insecurities are molding your perception of how she feels about you. I know you want her really bad, i know there is a chance I am wrong and she might want you back but just wants a tiny taste of freedom, but it also makes me wonder... Is she really as devoted to you as you THINK she is? Just a thought. Does she REALLY consider you to still be her fiance, or is she just TELLING you that because she is too insecure to lay the truth on you? It sounds like she might be the classic case of "I don't know how to deal with you, i'm too insecure to tell the truth, so I'll just tell you what you want to hear". I am not saying this to cause you greater insecurities, i am not saying it to cause you pain... because in all reality, a woman did the same thing to me once. She led me on for months making me think she still loved me because she was too chicken-shit to actually tell me what she was really feeling. It made the blow much harder to deal with when i wasn't expecting the outcome. I'm just putting together the hints and clues you are giving. When she dispises clinginess, ENCOURAGES you to have oral sex with others, tells you to "back off a little", and even calls you "shady". Hmm... You don't feel the same way about oral sex, and you are totally in love and devoted to her, so why does she feel that way? You are clingy because you love her so much, so if she loves you why is it a problem? And i doubt you would ever tell her to "back off a little", or EVER call her "shady". Look buddy, you seem like a great guy and I don't want to see you hurt. Put up your defenses, start reading between the lines, and prepare for the worst as well as hope for the best. Nothing may happen, she could very possibly just come running back into your arms and tell you she was just in a rutt, but there is the alternative. Be prepared for it, because if it happens, you want to come out of it with some dignity, self respect, and a completely bitter-free attitude... and that is the most important thing of all. YOU are the most important thing of all, not her.
     
  20. Imported

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2000
    Messages:
    56,713
    Likes Received:
    55
    Trackers: [quote author=gigantikok link=board=relationships;num=1058851299;start=0#18 date=07/25/03 at 23:22:00]
    As you started to give out little hints, i started to realize that this post might not be an accurate description of your life. From what it sounds like, you might be writing what you precieve as opposed to what might actually be reality. It's really interesting, but I think your insecurities are molding your perception of how she feels about you. I know you want her really bad, i know there is a chance I am wrong and she might want you back but just wants a tiny taste of freedom, but it also makes me wonder... Is she really as devoted to you as you THINK she is? Just a thought. Does she REALLY consider you to still be her fiance, or is she just TELLING you that because she is too insecure to lay the truth on you? It sounds like she might be the classic case of "I don't know how to deal with you, i'm too insecure to tell the truth, so I'll just tell you what you want to hear". I am not saying this to cause you greater insecurities, i am not saying it to cause you pain... because in all reality, a woman did the same thing to me once. She led me on for months making me think she still loved me because she was too chicken-shit to actually tell me what she was really feeling. It made the blow much harder to deal with when i wasn't expecting the outcome. I'm just putting together the hints and clues you are giving. When she dispises clinginess, ENCOURAGES you to have oral sex with others, tells you to "back off a little", and even calls you "shady". Hmm... You don't feel the same way about oral sex, and you are totally in love and devoted to her, so why does she feel that way? You are clingy because you love her so much, so if she loves you why is it a problem? And i doubt you would ever tell her to "back off a little", or EVER call her "shady". Look buddy, you seem like a great guy and I don't want to see you hurt. Put up your defenses, start reading between the lines, and prepare for the worst as well as hope for the best. Nothing may happen, she could very possibly just come running back into your arms and tell you she was just in a rutt, but there is the alternative. Be prepared for it, because if it happens, you want to come out of it with some dignity, self respect, and a completely bitter-free attitude... and that is the most important thing of all. YOU are the most important thing of all, not her.[/quote]

    I'm pretty much with Gigantikok on this one. When I read your first post, I automatically questioned her motives. As I kept reading, I questioned them even more. You sound like a great guy I.S, but it sounds like your girl is likely to stray, so be careful! Another thing I would like to ask is "Have you guys REALLY sat down and talked about this?", because they may be a possibilty of a communication break down. You might like to talk to her about that "anything but intercourse" thing too, because it seems to me that she may not fully understand about the seriousness about your engagement. Anyway that's all I have to say, and I would hate to see someone like yourself get hurt by this girl.
     
Draft saved Draft deleted