Women please read this and tell me what you think

[TheRob]

alright now I'm sure guys are going to comment and that's fine, I'm not one to silence people but I am most interested in womens responces

ok so I know about this company, and the new location for the company has been open for just over a year. They are a training store so they have the most frequent promotions in the company (tied with other training stores roughly) now in the entire year, not one single female has been promoted. in the entire YEAR no women have been promoted, all men.
and that place has some good female workers to, in fact I've even heard members of management TELL at least one female worker that she is one of the best workers in the building! but when it comes time to promote someone, they seem to find some reason to promote a guy instead.
and here is the worst part, they have this girl, great worker she has missed only one day in something like a years worth of service, she is thought of very highly by all of her coworkers and managment AND she recently got done playing a fairly important role in a remodel of another store, the remodel was a 4 million dollar project. she was one of the important players in getting this 4 million dollar project done ok, and she put in for a promotion while she was gone
well, the managment team interviewed her and said she had a perfect interview (for total honesty they said her interview was terrific and had no problems, to me that is perfect right?) but she still didn't get the promotion. instead it went to a 22 year old guy who did not meet all the prerequisites for applying for the possition. see the first prereq was open availability and the guy they promoted is a full time student

I'd like to think this place isn't sexually biased but....I mean look at what I have writen here, am I wrong to think there is some sexual bias going on? or am I just paying attention?

oh! and there is more, there are fitting rooms there right (if you havn't guessed it is a clothing store) now they tell the women employees that they are not aloud to go into the mens fitting room but they have the men go into the womens fitting room. see the main reason for cleaning out the fitting rooms is twofold really, to keep it clean for the customers and for our loss prevention team. Well to the management teams thinking is that over 90% of the companies loss in theft is from the womens section and the womens fitting room is more heavily trafficed that the female employees need help to keep up but the mens fitting rooms are generally empty and women in an area men may be changing clothing will make male customers hesitant to utilize the fitting rooms (when men are shoping there)
now to me, that is an unequal relationship, you cannot tell women to keep out of the mens fitting room and in the same breath tell them that you are sending a male employee to help them keep up with the womens fitting room

am I crazy? am I overly chivilrious? am I too PC?
give me your thoughts (as breif as you can be please I expect to get a lot of responces on such a hotly charged topic)

oh btw, a female employee said that it made her uncomfortable that the men could do stuff that women can't and a male employee told her that she didn't mind! can you imagine, how in the hell can someone arrogantly tell someone ELSE what they do and don't mind?! that is so out of line I'd like to have beaten him!

 

[LooseCannon]

...penis?

 

[TheRob]

oh and I forgot to tell you this part, now as a gentleman this is the worst damn part, the men actually feel perfectly at ease sexually harrassing the female workers!
they say they will beat a girl up, or even make little fake movements with thier fist towards the womens faces!

oh, and the guys often talk about how they would like it if a stripper would come in for a show, and there is this one girl who is generously endowed (overly endowed to be blunt about it) and I heard two guys on lunch break wishing they could see her not wearing a bra sometime

I think that is out of line personally but I havn't said anything about it yet
see it's hard cus these people are like an extended network of friends
not good friends but I have friendly relationships with them you know
not sure what to do

 

[B_Jennuine73]

Sounds like I would not like to work there and would end up getting fired. Your perceptions aren't wrong, it is a sexist environment.

"even make fake movements with their fist towards the women's faces"???? What the fuck is that all about? HOW OLD ARE THESE GUYS? Sounds extremely juvenile. There is nothing wrong with you saying something when seeing that. "Not cool, man or what the fuck dude?" is pretty non threatening.

Obviously, if you are feeling shitty not saying something, then say something.

I could go on and on but you asked to make it brief...

 

[Hippie Hollow Girl]

Wow! I take it you are in the USA......and I suspect your store is located in the South.

It is hard to believe that a company would take the chances that this department store is taking.....if what you say it true. Sounds like it is only a matter of time before the sexual discrimination / harrassment charges come through the roof. (When females notice whatever is going on and they band together to get a class action lawsuit or something.) If I were you, I would just keep my nose clean. Do not engage in this kind of activity yourself. I would sort of distance myself from those people that are knowingly doing wrong things. (the guys doing the fist signs in women's faces) Depends on whatever your situation is if you want to be the whistle blower......because I am sure that what this company is doing is wrong. But it could entail you not having a job anymore if the company gets shut down or if they fire you for reporting what you have seen. I know here in Texas people can be fired at will. They don't even have to have a reason. They can probably hire and promote at will too.

Anyways this all probably depends on what the laws of the state where the department store has it's business license is located.....Or that is my guess.

I am sure a law student or lawyer could give you better advice.

But yes it looks like you are in a shitty situation.

Hard to believe we havent come so far after all.....at certain companies.

 

[TinyPrincess]

So... What's new... The world has been like that for centuries... Just shows there's still room for improvement...

 

[PussyWellington]

...penis?

Hmm, I wonder who you are?

 

[thehighheelsgirl]

Ya that sounds like sooner or later the fur is gonna fly! Not all girls are confrontational but once the group figures out what is going on and how its not right they'll call some lawyer and then it'll be a big deal!

Jen

 

[Phil Ayesho]

Sounds like SOME woman is gonna make out like a bandit over a lawsuit.

If all that is true... then there is a huge class action suit in the offing.

 

[SurferGirlCA]

Well, considering the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals just overturned a ruling against Goodyear for paying a female worker at least $6,000 less a year than a guy doing the same job she did (and no, it wasn't performance-based), I wouldn't assume any lawsuit will automatically be successful - especially if it's in front of a court that's lizard-brain dominated.

 

[Ms.Teacher]

I'd like to think this place isn't sexually biased but....I mean look at what I have writen here, am I wrong to think there is some sexual bias going on? or am I just paying attention?

No, you're not imagining it.

now they tell the women employees that they are not aloud to go into the mens fitting room but they have the men go into the womens fitting room.

That's unusual. When I worked in retail they didn't want men going into the ladies fitting rooms(possible pervs), but it was okay for the ladies to go into the men's rooms.

am I crazy? am I overly chivilrious? am I too PC?
give me your thoughts (as breif as you can be please I expect to get a lot of responces on such a hotly charged topic)

You're fine. I smell trouble on the horizon.

 

[AlteredEgo]

I didn't hit the lotto last week. Where do you work, Rob? I need a great lawsuit.

 

[hypoc8]

Wow! I take it you are in the USA......and I suspect your store is located in the South.

It is hard to believe that a company would take the chances that this department store is taking.....if what you say it true. Sounds like it is only a matter of time before the sexual discrimination / harrassment charges come through the roof. (When females notice whatever is going on and they band together to get a class action lawsuit or something.) If I were you, I would just keep my nose clean. Do not engage in this kind of activity yourself. I would sort of distance myself from those people that are knowingly doing wrong things. (the guys doing the fist signs in women's faces) Depends on whatever your situation is if you want to be the whistle blower......because I am sure that what this company is doing is wrong. But it could entail you not having a job anymore if the company gets shut down or if they fire you for reporting what you have seen. I know here in Texas people can be fired at will. They don't even have to have a reason. They can probably hire and promote at will too.

Anyways this all probably depends on what the laws of the state where the department store has it's business license is located.....Or that is my guess.

I am sure a law student or lawyer could give you better advice.

But yes it looks like you are in a shitty situation.

Hard to believe we havent come so far after all.....at certain companies.

I'm sure nothing like this ever happens in the North or anywhere else in the USA. Why does it always have to be the Souths problem.

 

[TheRob]

Well, considering the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals just overturned a ruling against Goodyear for paying a female worker at least $6,000 less a year than a guy doing the same job she did (and no, it wasn't performance-based), I wouldn't assume any lawsuit will automatically be successful - especially if it's in front of a court that's lizard-brain dominated.

well actually pay isn't a big deal to me, it's respect tho I guess pay is a form of respect
I'd ahve to know more about that case to comment fully BUT lets keep it on this subject please (no offense and thank you for your input)

 

[TheRob]

No, you're not imagining it.



That's unusual. When I worked in retail they didn't want men going into the ladies fitting rooms(possible pervs), but it was okay for the ladies to go into the men's rooms.


You're fine. I smell trouble on the horizon.

to say it is likely men are pervs but women arn't, is sexual harrassment of male workers

 

[TheRob]

ok now that I have the input of everyone let me flip the script

everything I described is true with minor differences, differences are switch all male/female references in the above post
I had noticed when I brought these topics up with people the way they really are I was getting responces about "ignore it, toughen up, grow a set" but when I couch it as if women are the ones being persacuted suddently people say lawsuit lawsuit this is wrong!

sorry for the initial missleading you guys but now that you have commented did anyone's opinion change knowing it is males being discriminated against?

here I will give you the full story (with accurate male/female references this time) in the next post

 

[TheRob]

location has been open just over a year like initially posted
true that it is a training store and promotion opportunities are relativly commmon
and true that no male has been promoted on the hourly level
(there was one male promoted at the very upper end of management, but it wasn't as much a promotion as it was a lateral move, tho still it wasn't local management that made that decission it was upper level management, and actually it's just how things go the person in the one job moves latterally to the other one when the person that had been in the other job moves on)
not one single male has been promoted in this store and men have been putting in for promotions
I am the male member of the staff that has had the General Manager tell me I am one of the best associates in the building (I have been passed over for promotion twice)
the project I was working on was the remodeling of another store, it was indeed a 4 million dollar project (it is possible it was high 3 million and it got rounded) and I put in for a promotion and they instead promoted a girl who is younger then me by 5 years (which is ok I don't mind a boss younger then me) but I have more retail expereience then she has by YEARS, I was litterally in my first retail job before she was in puberty
and she is a full time student, one of the requirements for the possition was to have Open Availability
a full time student is not openly available
I was told my interview was very good and had no problems, so if a perfect interview wasn't enough then the decision was effectivly made before my interview....that is a no no
I have indeed been told male workers are not permited in the womens fitting room despite women going into the men fitting rooms litterally whenever they feel like it (even if it is not to clean the fitting rooms out, just to walk through cus they feel like it) now there are signs posted in the mens fitting room that SAY only MALE workers will patrol the mens fitting room area....
to tell men they cannot go into womens areas becuase you just assume they are perverts is sexual discrimination (hours are given out to clean out fitting rooms, this means women get more hours then men get so it is financial as well but mostly just the disrespect)
I told a female coworker that it bothered me that she goes into the mens fitting room whenever she wants (she does not even work in the mens section and she has previously told me to stay out of the womens fitting room, so I explained that it made me feel like less then her as a person and I wanted her to respect me and stay out of the mens fitting room. she told me I needed to grow a set and then men don't care. I am sorry but if a woman thinks she can tell a man what he does and dosn't care about, she is retarded. I cannot do that to a woman so she cannot do that to me.

women regularly threaten to beat up male employees and numerous times I have had women tell me they will kick me in the groin and make kicking motions towards my groin (the foot travels most times up past my knee so it isn't a minor nonthreatening action, it nearly connects)

women talk about wanting male strippers to stop by and a member of the managment staff offered to hire a male stripper for a female worker if she'd stay late one day....
two women sat in the breakroom and talked about how they'd like to see a black male coworker in a speedo so they could see "if it was true what they say" right in front of me they have this conversation

so is everyones opinion still the same?
or is there a double standard?

 

[Ms.Teacher]

to say it is likely men are pervs but women arn't, is sexual harrassment of male workers

I was trying to stress something that occurs in the society we live in.

Have you ever heard of a woman being arrested for spying in someone's window? Peeping Tom's are usually men.
Or how about a woman being arrested for masturbating in public? You can say not many women masturbate in public, which is probably true, but I don't think I've ever read of one being arrest for it.
And how about men who put hidden cameras in ladies locker rooms or fitting rooms? Are women putting hidden cameras in men's locker or fitting rooms?
And let's not forget the guys who attach cameras to their shoes in an attempt to take pics up girls skirts.

Yes, I think men are more apt to be pervs than women. As far as your company goes, things are not on the up and up there.

 

[Symphonic]

If it's not one side it's another...

I had the same thing happen in a store I worked in, only reversed; I and other men were the one's to be harrassed and women ruled the store. To be honest I don't think this will ever really change.

 

[Symphonic]

I was trying to stress something that occurs in the society we live in.

Have you ever heard of a woman being arrested for spying in someone's window?

Yes.

Peeping Tom's are usually men.

Probably.

Or how about a woman being arrested for masturbating in public?

Yes, as well as sexual harrasment, and prostitution charges coupled of course with indecent exposure.

You can say not many women masturbate in public, which is probably true, but I don't think I've ever read of one being arrest for it.

You won't find what you don't look for. This concept is nothing new is it? It's like the idea of women raping men, or other women for that matter; it's "unheard of" because no one looks for it. Using a stereotype to fund the news, and of course profit, is all part of the media gig.

And how about men who put hidden cameras in ladies locker rooms or fitting rooms? Are women putting hidden cameras in men's locker or fitting rooms?

Who knows? I wouldn't put it past them; it's just like the idea that women don't like / watch porn. Please. I'm sure just as many voyeurs exist in the female population as in the male, and to be honest it's pretty gutsy for either gender to place cameras somewhere. Men are more likely to do it, as they are more likely to take risks and act alone without the consultation of others.

And let's not forget the guys who attach cameras to their shoes in an attempt to take pics up girls skirts.

Never even heard of that; I'm sure it happens though, but as it is socially unacceptable for men to really wear dresses I won't say women do it, but they do have their equivalents such as purposefully trying to flirt with a guy to size him up which in truth is a form of voyeurism, especially if they've no interest in the male. Flirting, Seduction, refusal to take "No" for an answer, the Stereotype that men always want sex, etc. They happen to just be covers and work well to keep female "perversion" out of the spotlight.

Yes, I think men are more apt to be pervs than women.

Then you are easily controlled.