Women you can respect

D_Humper E Bogart

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I'm greed-centric. I don't really think that dad's have much of a role in modern society any more, not to say I'm NOT happy with my own, but that women are getting better at sorting out everything in the household at a career etc. (Which is a good thing BTW). What role do guys actually fill? And I mean as a niche, not something that the woman of the 21st century can't do already?

I'll be slightly mean and take Zora as an example, she is a single mother with a daughter and she's succesful, intelligant and hopefully happy with life. What more can women aspire to?

Makes me think of that science technique for manufacturing sperm out of stem cells and removing the need for any men to be able to conceive. I'd love to see how many women would geuninely take up the treatment, I'd bet they would be very happy though, at least they made an active choice in their lives to have a baby.

Anyhooo, on topic, there are quite a few women I admire and respect, but I don't really think "ho-ing" onself should be all that a woman can aspire to. Call me old fashioned, but it's interesting that only women can be respected as pornography stars, yet any LPSGer who puts on their CV that they "bang for cash" is not going anywhere, fast.

My previous bosses were brilliant women, great managers and talented and caring people, if more managers in important places were talented women, I reckon the economy and nation as a whole would be a lot better.
 

Riven650

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rhino_horn said:

Well, you used the question mark. I respect you for that. I disassociate myself from the idea that your attitude towards women is in anyway typical of men in general, because I am one of those men that you want to sweep into a mass in order to hide somewhere amongst them. I'm sorry. I don't fit in there, and I think you'll find that a tremendous proportion of intelligent, enlightened, fair minded men would also resist the sweep of your broom. It's just the same as my not being able to cope with people making sweeping judgements about women.

My best friend is a lovely man. We were at college together in '71 and he was the funniest, most charismatic of guys there. I didn't know it at the time, but this was not long after his single, Greek, mother died, leaving him without a home in th UK. He recently told me that he hitchhiked across Europe after college and fucked dozens of girls along the way. He described them to me as tarts, slags, etc. and spoke as if they were almost subhuman compared to his wife (whom he adores). I dispair of the horrible, traditional, sexist attitude, and I pity him for his sad, sad, attitude to those lovely, fun loving, freewheeling girls he slept with. I still love him. I understand that he had a very damaging childhood, and I do my best to nurture broader minded ideas in him.

The girls who become Playboy Bunnies are bright, intelligent girls. They work hard and deserve tremendous respect. IT IS POSSIBLE TO FANCY THE PANTS OFF A GIRL WITHOUT DISPRSPECTING HER. Try it. Sadly I think it's too late for my college friend. He and I are in our 50's and I don't think he's likely to change his mind much now. You are young. You have a chance. Be brave. :smile:
 

rhino_horn

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Riven650 said:
Well, you used the question mark. I respect you for that. I disassociate myself from the idea that your attitude towards women is in anyway typical of men in general, because I am one of those men that you want to sweep into a mass in order to hide somewhere amongst them. I'm sorry. I don't fit in there, and I think you'll find that a tremendous proportion of intelligent, enlightened, fair minded men would also resist the sweep of your broom. It's just the same as my not being able to cope with people making sweeping judgements about women.

My best friend is a lovely man. We were at college together in '71 and he was the funniest, most charismatic of guys there. I didn't know it at the time, but this was not long after his single, Greek, mother died, leaving him without a home in th UK. He recently told me that he hitchhiked across Europe after college and fucked dozens of girls along the way. He described them to me as tarts, slags, etc. and spoke as if they were almost subhuman compared to his wife (whom he adores). I dispair of the horrible, traditional, sexist attitude, and I pity him for his sad, sad, attitude to those lovely, fun loving, freewheeling girls he slept with. I still love him. I understand that he had a very damaging childhood, and I do my best to nurture broader minded ideas in him.
where did that come from, better question, what are you talking about?

its so amazing, how people can see so deeply into the crap i write here, and it is all crap. i think you misunderstood the CRAP i wrote earlier.

i respect women a great deal, i have nothing but bonerific admiration for a woman who carries herself with respect; a woman who doesnt give a damn what others think, but still manages to shine in her own way. if you look and act respectable you will be treated with respect, from me, at least. if you look and act like you want to get f**ked(slut), chances are that is all you're going to get for as long as im interested.

slut=a male/female who likes to get f**ked all the time, theres nothing wrong with that, but it does make one a slut. <--i got this definition from webster's dictionary.

The girls who become Playboy Bunnies are bright, intelligent girls. They work hard and deserve tremendous respect. IT IS POSSIBLE TO FANCY THE PANTS OFF A GIRL WITHOUT DISPRSPECTING HER. Try it. Sadly I think it's too late for my college friend. He and I are in our 50's and I don't think he's likely to change his mind much now. You are young. You have a chance. Be brave. :smile:
i dont think IQ is part of the selective process for playboy models, anna nicole is a testament to that.

*i thought i was being brave?<--another question mark.
 

Riven650

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rhino_horn said:
......................................................................................................
slut=a male/female who likes to get f**ked all the time, theres nothing wrong with that, but it does make one a slut. <--i got this definition from webster's dictionary.

'i dont think IQ is part of the selective process for playboy models, anna nicole is a testament to that.'

*i thought i was being brave?<--another question mark.

I was trying to make the piont that women who use their beautiful bodies for a living are free thinking adults and deserve our respect just as much as women who do something else for a living. If you don't like them. Don't look at them.

'Slut' might be in the dictionary, but just like all those other horrible insults that are in the dictionary (bastard, cunt, faggot, etc.) you have to think about how and when it's ok to use the word if you don't want to offend anyone. For instance my college friend's mother brought him up alone. It wouldn't be nice to call my friend 'bastard' even though that is the dictionary term.

We all like to get fucked: You, me, the lot of us. Are we sluts if we fuck different people... how frequently? Who makes the rules? You?

It's ok to count yourself more fortunate than the alcoholic who lives on the street. It's ok not to want to work as a rent boy or hooker. But to throw insults at them you assume superiority. That kind of idea built a holocaust.

My wife has worked as a cookery writer, book author, tv script writer, photographer, magazine deputy editor, director of a publishing business, she's a great mother and is now a go-getter in a major bank. When she was younger she also used to work as a stripper. She was good at that too. I dare say you'd catagorise her 'slut' because of that. But you wouldn't do it face to face with me. Would you?

Can you now feel the cowardice that goes hand in hand with the prejudice?

*You're brave enough to relax your grip on your prejudices. Let them go. Life is better without them.
 

Shelby

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Riven650 said:
Women wearing makeup don't usually mind being admired or fancied (as sex objects) but I completely understand if they don't welcome insults or unwelcome advances.

Do you think that any woman who makes herself attractive has to expect advances from absolutely anyone?

Do you think it would be easier for us all if women were kept under the veil, like in some muslem traditions?

Naw, dude. People still gotta have manners.

But a woman who makes herself attractive is asking for attention. That's pretty much the definition of the word attractive. So imho she forfeits the right to feel indignant if complimented on it.

And hell no to the veil crap. I think Islam is messed up.
 

Shelby

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It always cracks me up when I see a woman who's wearing makeup complaining about being treated like a sex object. :biggrin1:

I respect the 'new feminists'. They think male lust is perfectly normal. They consider it more empowering than demeaning.
 

Riven650

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Shelby said:
It always cracks me up when I see a woman who's wearing makeup complaining about being treated like a sex object. :biggrin1:

I respect the 'new feminists'. They think male lust is perfectly normal. They consider it more empowering than demeaning.

Women wearing makeup don't usually mind being admired or fancied (as sex objects) but I completely understand if they don't welcome insults or unwelcome advances.

Do you think that any woman who makes herself attractive has to expect advances from absolutely anyone?

Do you think it would be easier for us all if women were kept under the veil, like in some muslem traditions?
 

rhino_horn

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Riven650 said:
I was trying to make the piont that women who use their beautiful bodies for a living are free thinking adults and deserve our respect just as much as women who do something else for a living. If you don't like them. Don't look at them.
i dont know riven, maybe im a little slow, but what the f**k are you talking about?:confused:
We all like to get fucked: You, me, the lot of us. Are we sluts if we fuck different people... how frequently? Who makes the rules? You?
yes, you're right. if you f**k too many people, too frequently, then you are a slut(though, there is nothing wrong with being a slut, its your own personal choice). and i think this is an established rule internationally.

*i do whatever i feel is right, just like everyone else.

It's ok to count yourself more fortunate than the alcoholic who lives on the street. It's ok not to want to work as a rent boy or hooker. But to throw insults at them you assume superiority. That kind of idea built a holocaust.
i agree, but where did this come from.

My wife has worked as a cookery writer, book author, tv script writer, photographer, magazine deputy editor, director of a publishing business, she's a great mother and is now a go-getter in a major bank. When she was younger she also used to work as a stripper. She was good at that too. I dare say you'd catagorise her 'slut' because of that. But you wouldn't do it face to face with me. Would you?
calm down, old man. no reason to try and make this personal, your wife sounds like a real nice lady, theres nothing wrong with being a stripper...provided she wasnt having sex for money afterward(whoring), which im sure she was not doing.:smile:
Can you now feel the cowardice that goes hand in hand with the prejudice?
honestly, no. but ill say yes if it'll end this "debate"
*You're brave enough to relax your grip on your prejudices. Let them go. Life is better without them.
i have no prejudices, im a muslim.:smile:

Do you think it would be easier for us all if women were kept under the veil, like in some muslem traditions?
i believe that is the ideology behind the veil.
 

Riven650

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Shelby said:
Naw, dude. People still gotta have manners.

But a woman who makes herself attractive is asking for attention. That's pretty much the definition of the word attractive. So imho she forfeits the right to feel indignant if complimented on it.

And hell no to the veil crap. I think Islam is messed up.

Okay mate. I agree that it's puzzling if a woman rejects a complement as unwelcome. But the problem is that a woman walking down the street looking drop-dead gorgeous should be entitled to enjoy a smile from the odd guy she passes, or even a carefullly placed and timed complement, but she will become scared shitless if a bunch of guys start following her wolf-whistling and making lewd suggestions. Fear of rape is no joke! Attractive women are not 'fair game'. That is an over simplification and makes excuses for boorish and bullying behaviour. We should try to be careful about the signals we send and think about how intimidating a sexual advance can be in the wrong context. (You might be thinking: 'cor, I'd like to shag the arse off you luv!' but you don't open your big mouth and say it. Do you?)
 

Riven650

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Hey rhino_horn,
I was reacting to the value judgement that most people attach to the word slut. Maybe I was jumping to a conclusion.

I don't know if you're joking about being a muslim. If you are a muslim then we obviously just clashed cultures.
 

stud_hunter

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I have no problem with women using sexuality to get ahead. I myself have used flirtation as a business tool on a few occasions. But I don't like when women who use their sexuality then complain about being objectified. When you use your sexuality to get ahead you objectify yourself. The more a woman uses her sexuality the more she's objectifying herself. The victim mindset of some women bugs me because it hurts those of us who would rather take responsibility for our actions. To me that's part of being an independent woman.
 

rhino_horn

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Riven650 said:
Hey rhino_horn,
I was reacting to the value judgement that most people attach to the word slut. Maybe I was jumping to a conclusion.
yeah i think you were.:smile:
I don't know if you're joking about being a muslim. If you are a muslim then we obviously just clashed cultures.
i wasnt joking, but i was born and raised in new england and brought up in an agnostic family. the beliefs ive accepted coupled with my experiences over the past 4 years have transformed me into the absolute opposite of what i was two years ago. --so its not REALLY a clash of cultures, as my perspective is formed from a mix of both.

I have no problem with women using sexuality to get ahead. I myself have used flirtation as a business tool on a few occasions.

i guess that would explain why you have no problem with it. :p
 

connemara

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stud_hunter said:
I have no problem with women using sexuality to get ahead. I myself have used flirtation as a business tool on a few occasions. But I don't like when women who use their sexuality then complain about being objectified. When you use your sexuality to get ahead you objectify yourself. The more a woman uses her sexuality the more she's objectifying herself. The victim mindset of some women bugs me because it hurts those of us who would rather take responsibility for our actions. To me that's part of being an independent woman.

My thoughts exactly. I agree that women sometimes tend to put themselves in the victim roll. You want to wear a tube top and short skirt? Fine. But dont be suprised/offended when men are look at your breasts or ass. If I walk in skin tight lycra shorts I am not going to be surprised or offender when people look at my crotch.
 

curiouscat9

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Historically, Eleanor of Aquitaine is my favorite choice.

She was married to two kings, she attended and had influence on the second Crusade, she led a rebellion against her husband and the crown in an attempt to ensure her power to rule in Aquitaine, had favorable relationships with most of her children and arranged successful political alliance marriages for most of them too. Chattel she was not.
 

AlteredEgo

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curiouscat9 said:
Historically, Eleanor of Aquitaine is my favorite choice.

She was married to two kings, she attended and had influence on the second Crusade, she led a rebellion against her husband and the crown in an attempt to ensure her power to rule in Aquitaine, had favorable relationships with most of her children and arranged successful political alliance marriages for most of them too. Chattel she was not.

Have you got a favorite book about her? Sounds like a great read.
 

Fredneck1951

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BronxBombshell said:
Have you got a favorite book about her? Sounds like a great read.

One of the most fascinating figures, let alone women, in history.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0674242548/002-2693471-1578446?v=glance&n=283155

The Weir book is good I read excerpts.

Of course, Katherine Hepburn portrayed Eleanor unforgettably in "The Lion in Winter". Peter O'Toole is good as Henry II, as well.

Your library is good place to look, they might have a VHS or DVD of TLiW, too.
 

AndrewEndowed24

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about sexual morality and playboy models

Some people think that we would become more authentic and human if we could all do our own thing, but those people never seem to consider the possibility that restraint and discrimination (the word wasn't always a pejorative, though tellingly, it is now) are a part of what it means to be human

this is particularly in response to heather's comment. I sense a desire to rid us all of our value judgements and our senses of propriety. I suggest some Edmund Burke.

"how dare some person or group tell another person our group what is respectable" This statement seems pretty damn self contradictory to me
 

B_big dirigible

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Queen Christina.

Maybe she doesn't count. Her pop, Gustavus Adolphus, had her raised as a prince, which had to put a bit of a cramp on her style.

In any event, she had a nice gun collection, if you like wheellocks.

Big library, too. Women with big libraries are very often respectable.