Women's Only Please: The Use of Force During Sex

dolfette

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You're talking about you and your bf? This is advice for the men of LPSG. What do you think they should do with whatever women they're having sex with?
the men of lpsg?

i think they have to play it by ear. i think they should listen to her responses. i think they should ask if she's ok if they can't tell from her reactions. i think that if they make no effort to find out, by whatever means, then they're abusers in denial.

but i don't think conversation is the ultimate truth.
 

Enid

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i think they have to play it by ear. i think they should listen to her responses. i think they should ask if she's ok if they can't tell from her reactions. i think that if they make no effort to find out, by whatever means, then they're abusers in denial.


This is what I think too. Thank you for putting it so succinctly, d.
 

dolfette

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No, not at all! It's not superior at all! I wasn't talking about you. All these guys aren't going to be having sex with you.

I was talking about what I think men should do in this situation, where they're going to be having sex with someone who may not be like you. I wouldn't say, well Dolfette is good at non-verbal communication, so I trust that anyone else would be, so don't worry about talking to the woman you're going to have sex with in this situation because if she's good at it, so is everyone else.
no, they're not having sex with me.
but they might be having sex with someone who is more like me than you.

you're saying all men should insist on conversation...except with dolfette.

i'm saying men should insist on communication, but work out with their partners what communication works best for them.
 

petite

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no, they're not having sex with me.
but they might be having sex with someone who is more like me than you.

you're saying all men should insist on conversation...except with dolfette.

i'm saying men should insist on communication, but work out with their partners what communication works best for them.

No, I'm saying that when potential sexual assault is possible, err on the side of extreme caution for both your own sake and hers.

I meant no offense, that's all I meant.
 
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HiddenLacey

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No, I'm saying that when potential sexual assault is possible, err on the side of extreme caution for both your own sake and hers.

Wow seriously I would never ever accuse someone of something like that unless they held me down and raped me. Maybe some of us are different. Guys should be careful.
 

dolfette

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No, I'm saying that when potential sexual assault is possible, err on the side of extreme caution for both your own sake and hers.
as gillette pointed out, moods change.
''but she said it was ok before we started, your honour!''
having a conversation doesn't guarantee anything.
 

petite

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Wow seriously I would never ever accuse someone of something like that unless they held me down and raped me. Maybe some of us are different. Guys should be careful.

Yes, but you must be careful what you say on the forums. In the rape fantasy thread, there was one young man whose girlfriend expressed a rape fantasy once and he wanted to surprise her in an alley, tie her up and throw her in a van, etc, but he didn't want to discuss the details of the rape fantasy with his girlfriend because he felt it would ruin the fun. He wanted to keep all of it a total surprise, including the fact that it was all part of her fantasy. I asked him if she had specifically told him that this was her fantasy and the answer was no. The boy had interpreted the thread to mean that he should actually kidnap and rape her without getting specific consent beforehand. I was sure that if I didn't explain to him that not talking about it was a bad idea, he was on his way to jail and some poor girl was about to be very traumatized.

I'm not worried about a woman falsely accusing a man. I'm worried about a man taking this thread too literally.
 
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petite

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as gillette pointed out, moods change.
''but she said it was ok before we started, your honour!''
having a conversation doesn't guarantee anything.

You're talking about a woman falsely accusing a man.

I'm talking about a man who isn't as good at reading body language as he thinks he is, and most men are very bad at it, reading this thread and thinking that discussing using force during sex is a very bad idea.

For many of us, it would lessen the likelihood that something happened that we didn't want to happen if we were actually asked. Lower the probability of mistakes.
 

HiddenLacey

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Yes, but you must be careful what you say on the forums. In the rape fantasy thread, there was one young man whose girlfriend expressed a rape fantasy once and he wanted to surprise her in an alley, tie her up and throw her in a van, etc, but he didn't want to discuss the details of the rape fantasy with his girlfriend because he felt it would ruin the fun. I asked him if she had specifically told him that this was her fantasy and the answer was no. The boy had interpreted the thread to mean that he should actually kidnap and rape her without getting specific consent beforehand. I was sure that if I didn't explain to him that not talking about it was a bad idea, he was on his way to jail and some poor girl was about to be very traumatized.

I'm not worried about a woman falsely accusing a man. I'm worried about a man taking this thread too literally.

Yeah that's true I agree with that. I would hope any man reading the stuff we post would have alittle more sense than that. BUT things are misread by all of us. Even just talking here sometimes we think people are arguing and they are just stating their thoughts like the other night between us. I think that a rape fanstasy is a very tricky situation. The two people have to be sure it's 100% consenual. In his case I think they would need to discuss him "attacking" her randomly and make sure she was ok with that. It wouldn't ruin the fantasy because she would never know where or when he was going to do it.
 

petite

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Yeah that's true I agree with that. I would hope any man reading the stuff we post would have alittle more sense than that. BUT things are misread by all of us. Even just talking here sometimes we think people are arguing and they are just stating their thoughts like the other night between us. I think that a rape fanstasy is a very tricky situation. The two people have to be sure it's 100% consenual. In his case I think they would need to discuss him "attacking" her randomly and make sure she was ok with that. It wouldn't ruin the fantasy because she would never know where or when he was going to do it.

Have you noticed how some men on LPSG don't seem to have any common sense? There are lots and lots of men here that I adore and who are normal and good and intelligent and have good common sense. Then there are the other ones...

Exactly! He needed to make sure it was all consensual!

It took a few posts to convince him that he was in danger of going to jail if he tried what he was suggesting, because he wanted to make the experience "authentic." Wow, scared the hell out of me.
 

dolfette

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You're talking about a woman falsely accusing a man.

I'm talking about a man who isn't as good at reading body language as he thinks he is, and most men are very bad at it, reading this thread and thinking that discussing using force during sex is a very bad idea.

For many of us, it would lessen the likelihood that something happened that we didn't want to happen if we were actually asked. Lower the probability of mistakes.
no, i'm talking about a man using her prior conversation as a consent without a get out clause.
whatever the intentions there's a chance things will go wrong.
my answer to that is to choose partners with care and use the communication method that i know i'm good at. there are fewer miscommunications when i'm not using my second language, and when he's listening to my body now instead of thinking about my words then (when i was in a completely different mood).

for me the word, ''no'' still works, whether there's been a conversation or not.
 

HiddenLacey

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:tongue:
Have you noticed how some men on LPSG don't seem to have any common sense? There are lots and lots of men here that I adore and who are normal and good and intelligent and have good common sense. Then there are the other ones...

Exactly! He needed to make sure it was all consensual!

It took a few posts to convince him that he was in danger of going to jail if he tried what he was suggesting, because he wanted to make the experience "authentic." Wow, scared the hell out of me.

LMAO your funny!!! Yes I've already encountered several of them and I'm thinking WTH. I've met a few of the nice ones so far. Good thing you were there to explain to him that is NOT ok.
 

petite

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no, i'm talking about a man using her prior conversation as a consent without a get out clause.
whatever the intentions there's a chance things will go wrong.
my answer to that is to choose partners with care and use the communication method that i know i'm good at. there are fewer miscommunications when i'm not using my second language, and when he's listening to my body now instead of thinking about my words then (when i was in a completely different mood).

for me the word, ''no'' still works, whether there's been a conversation or not.

Oh, I see! I understand what you mean. Yes, of course there's always a chance something could go wrong.
 

dolfette

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Yes, but you must be careful what you say on the forums. In the rape fantasy thread, there was one young man whose girlfriend expressed a rape fantasy once and he wanted to surprise her in an alley, tie her up and throw her in a van, etc, but he didn't want to discuss the details of the rape fantasy with his girlfriend because he felt it would ruin the fun. He wanted to keep all of it a total surprise, including the fact that it was all part of her fantasy. I asked him if she had specifically told him that this was her fantasy and the answer was no. The boy had interpreted the thread to mean that he should actually kidnap and rape her without getting specific consent beforehand. I was sure that if I didn't explain to him that not talking about it was a bad idea, he was on his way to jail and some poor girl was about to be very traumatised.

I'm not worried about a woman falsely accusing a man. I'm worried about a man taking this thread too literally.
if being stupid was a crime he'd be serving 25.

but there, it was her words that created the misunderstanding. saying a little was far more dangerous than saying nothing. sometimes, if a person lacks the confidence and skill to do it properly, conversations on our sexual desires can be a bad thing...it almost got her into serious shit.

words are tricky that way. you choose the wrong ones, say too few or too many, use ones that could mean more than one thing, and you've created a completely false impression.

when it comes to sex, feelings, emotions them i'm better off using a language i'm confident in.
 

petite

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if being stupid was a crime he'd be serving 25.

but there, it was her words that created the misunderstanding. saying a little was far more dangerous than saying nothing. sometimes, if a person lacks the confidence and skill to do it properly, conversations on our sexual desires can be a bad thing...it almost got her into serious shit.

words are tricky that way. you choose the wrong ones, say too few or too many, use ones that could mean more than one thing, and you've created a completely false impression.

when it comes to sex, feelings, emotions them i'm better off using a language i'm confident in.

True! Including all the words in this thread! So easy to misinterpret!

It happens to me all the time. It's why I'm so forgiving when it comes to restating what you mean. I'm not always the most articulate writer and my posts are misinterpreted all the time. I need a second chance sometimes to clarify.
 
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Gillette

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Oh, yes, so forgiving.

Despite the poor bastard stating over and over that he watches his girlfriend (not a random hookup) closely for signs of displeasure/discomfort and would ease off if he went too far he still gets called immature, has his points ignored and has a thread that only women can speak in started with the intent to show him how very wrong he is.

Read the inspiration for this thread's creation.
http://www.lpsg.org/182776-do-some-women-actually-like.html

Now the rape fantasy has been substituted for the real issue (already misrepresenting his situation) stated in this thread's OP in order to garner women's agreement. Just a hint of dishonesty, there.

For the men AND women of LPSG. There is no one way that will work for everybody. Do your best to communicate with your partner in whatever way works best for the both of you and pay attention when they respond.


People are different.
Who knew?
 

L_egit

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I kinda want to drop a warning here, because this discussion might get some people in trouble on the male side of the forum.

In Canada, it isn't enough to communicate in 'whatever way works' for you if you end up in court fighting against sexual assault charges. It might work in a relationship on a personal level, but judges aren't exactly at the forefront of new trends in sexual relationships. Because of that, there is no such thing as implied consent, which means that as a guy, you can't simply assume that you have consent to do whatever you want to do. If there is no consent, then unless the situation was incredibly odd, you're on the hook and need to provide a defense.

You can be put into this situation even if there's nothing to tip you off about it: If the person you're having sex with is doing so because she's afraid (even an unreasonable fear that you had no way of knowing about), then her consent isn't freely given.

The only thing you can do at that point in the trial would be to build a defense: claim that you had an honest mistaken belief. Because of how strong this defense is, you need to provide evidence that the judge can accept or toss away before he instructs the jury to take this belief into account. If you don't have any evidence that would lead you to have a mistaken belief, you're probably boned. Couples can typically point to their relationship as the source of the mistake if there's no evidence pointing the other way (recent physical abuse, violence, etc). Random hookups, by contrast, have far less to go on so play it safer there.

So despite the fact that context and circumstance seem to play an integral role, protect yourself by talking about the subject beforehand and be certain that what both of you are doing is exactly what both of you want.

Sorry for intruding!
 

HiddenLacey

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I kinda want to drop a warning here, because this discussion might get some people in trouble on the male side of the forum.

In Canada, it isn't enough to communicate in 'whatever way works' for you if you end up in court fighting against sexual assault charges. It might work in a relationship on a personal level, but judges aren't exactly at the forefront of new trends in sexual relationships. Because of that, there is no such thing as implied consent, which means that as a guy, you can't simply assume that you have consent to do whatever you want to do. If there is no consent, then unless the situation was incredibly odd, you're on the hook and need to provide a defense.

You can be put into this situation even if there's nothing to tip you off about it: If the person you're having sex with is doing so because she's afraid (even an unreasonable fear that you had no way of knowing about), then her consent isn't freely given.

The only thing you can do at that point in the trial would be to build a defense: claim that you had an honest mistaken belief. Because of how strong this defense is, you need to provide evidence that the judge can accept or toss away before he instructs the jury to take this belief into account. If you don't have any evidence that would lead you to have a mistaken belief, you're probably boned. Couples can typically point to their relationship as the source of the mistake if there's no evidence pointing the other way (recent physical abuse, violence, etc). Random hookups, by contrast, have far less to go on so play it safer there.

So despite the fact that context and circumstance seem to play an integral role, protect yourself by talking about the subject beforehand and be certain that what both of you are doing is exactly what both of you want.

Sorry for intruding!

You didn't intrude at all:smile: Thank you for sharing this information with all of us. I find it interesting to see what everyone has to say. We had another guy post and I was so busy talking earlier I did not respond to him. Now that the general conversation has slowed I'm sure plenty of guys will post their opinions. Everyone who reads it may want to post. :wink:
 

dolfette

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personally, i've never done kink with anyone i wasn't in a close relationship with. i do getting to know, testing the waters and then bring on the kink. i don't mind it taking us a while to get there because the relationship takes a while to get there too.

kinky stuff in casual sex is a big risk and not one i'm ever tempted to take.
 

petite

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Well, this thread has a lot of posts, but only six women have given their opinions so far:

Dolfette and Gillette feel that discussing the subjects of your kinks, using force, or sex in general is a turn-off. They only want non-verbal communication about sex and for their partners to read their body language. Dolfette doesn't do anything like that with anyone she isn't very close to already, though.

Me and Embrace69 feel that people should definitely talk about sex, especially kinks or using force during sex. We both feel that maybe you shouldn't actually discuss while in the middle of sex, you should know where your partner stands on everything and be open about talking about all of it, especially if force is under consideration. I'm pro-kink. I feel that sexual partners should make a special effort to try and fulfill one another's kinks and that you can't do that if you don't talk about it.

SubmissiveGirl83 was on the fence in the subject, unsure of how she really feels about it. She would like it if her boyfriend brought up what sort of kinks he likes, but she doesn't do it herself and rarely discusses sex with him. Ideally she likes the idea, but doesn't put it into practice.

Enid likes the fact that her relationship has reached a point where she no longer needs to discuss sex with her boyfriend because they know one another so well now, but she did not discuss how they reached that point from the beginning of her relationship, through talking about sex, or arriving at it through non-verbal discussion only or how she feels that couples should go about getting to that point in their relationships.

Ladies please correct me if you feel that I've misrepresented your positions. That isn't my intention and if I have I apologize and humbly kiss your feet. Just tell me I'm a dolt and correct me! :redface:
 
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