Wondering What to do

Discussion in 'Relationships, Discrimination, and Jealousy' started by dude77007, Sep 19, 2005.

  1. dude77007

    dude77007 New Member

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    I have enjoyed viewing this forum for some time I think that you guys put out some honest and helpful comments. I need to get something that is screwing up my head out on paper and seek some advice.

    I am straight and enjoy sex with women. While Mr. Johnson is no trophy like most on this site, it works fine and I have never had any complaints. Occasionally, I have gone to the other side for some experimentation. Maybe two or three times a year. I am not a cruiser and the situations just happen. The last three were a guy I was matched up to play in a racket ball tournament, a sales clerk at the suit store and a married guy in my office building. I guess the guilt keeps me from being more active, but in a way I think this is all I need.

    Something happened two weeks ago that has helped me sort this out. I called an ad in a local rag that has massage persons and titty bars ads in it. I picked a man
    whose ad stated that he was licensed and did Swedish massages, etc. I made the
    appointment and his business was in his apartment. That should have been my first clue. He had a spare bedroom set up as a professional massage studio or so it appeared. He was in his late twenties, not handsome but very athletic well build, but I did not feel any sexual attraction what so ever.

    I stripped down to my shorts. He asked me if I wanted to remove my shorts or not, whatever I was comfortable with. Since he asked, I guess I assumed the most people must get a massage naked so I took them off and laid down on the table on my stomach. He started with my legs and worked up. The pressure he applied at times was painful and he would hold the pressure until the muscle relaxed. He massaged the hell out of my butt and that got me stiff. He massaged my shoulders and back wonderfully. I was so relaxed probably never been so completely relaxed. He nudged me to roll over on my back. I was dreading it because I was stiff plus I could feel the flow of dick honey. I was very embarrassed because I looked down and saw this little puddle of dick
    honey on my belly. I laid down and just closed my eyes trying not to think
    about my hard and the mess on my belly, like pretending they both didn’t exist.

    Then, he said “do you want me to take care of that?” I said yes, HONESTLY
    thinking he was talking about wiping off the pre cum. I mean,I didn't think
    that he wanted to mix pre cum with massage oil. Within a second, his hand
    was on my dick. I know I flinched and thought that this is crossing the
    professional boundaries etc., but then I thought: ok, I am a big boy and I got
    myself into this situation and I can handle it. He skinned me back and put
    some massage oil around my head and slid me forward. He placed his thumb just
    under my head and began massaging slowly. I almost lost my hard but it came
    back. He just kept rubbing there, the same pressure and same speed. I had to
    really work at it because he did not vary the pressure or speed. I lasted about
    three minutes or less but it seemed like an eternity. When I came, I swear my
    whole body left the table and I shot up under my chin on my throat. I have never
    done that. It was like my entire insides was trying to get out through my pee hole. I was wasted.

    He put a sheet over me and left the room. I did not know what to do; I just laid
    there wondering if I had the strength to get off the table. Finally, I got up and
    started to dress. He asked me if I wanted a hot shower and I said no. I don’t
    remember if there was any more conversation. I just paid him and left. I was
    floating,, if I didn’t have to drive the car, I could have slept for three
    days.

    This experience has been on my mind a lot. It was not a traumatic or unpleasant experience by any means, just unexpected. What came to me yesterday while trying to analyze why I have the need to mess around on the other side occasionally is this: SOMETIMES, I LIKE TO BE MADE LOVE TO. Can you
    guys understand that? I love sex with women, but dam it; I am tired of doing
    all the work. All the worry, am I going to get her off, am I going to stay hard,
    am I big enough, am I going to cum too soon. Most women I have had are fairly
    passive, maybe not totally but I have never had one that would take charge or
    initiate anything. Why does all the foreplay have to be my responsibility and
    directed towards the women? A lot of women my age are not into giving head but
    I hear the younger ones are. I keep my foreskin finger licking clean and would
    never expect someone to go there if it wasn’t. Most guys give head because they
    want to; most women view it as a chore. Also a man can recognize the nuisances
    of another man’s body. Women’s haven’t got a clue. Do you ever wish there was a time when you could just lay there and be made love to? That’s what it felt
    like on that massage table. I was totally relaxed, I felt no pressure to do anything
    but lay there and let it happen. I knew I could stay or leave, it was totally up to me.

    I see now why I like to slip over to the other side once in awhile.
    I love the passion coming back at me as intense as the passion
    I am putting out. I love the two-way foreplay, some aggression, some force.
    Men don’t make other men responsible of their orgasisms. I LOVE BEING MADE LOVE TO. I like being laid once in awhile and I don’t mean what you think, instead of me doing the laying. With another man you know if sex has been good for both of you, the evidence is either on your chest, in your mouth or up somewhere else.

    I know I can’t expect one night stands to know my needs any more that I
    would know hers’. However, I have been in some long term relationships and I
    still wasn’t able to feel like she was putting a 100% effort out. Many women
    have a mindset that says let them take what they want and never make any demands on you, except to get it over with. Or maybe I am no good at sex. But I think that I am very considerate to a woman’s needs and always try hard to satisfy her first. I do oral. How do you tell a woman that you want your nipples pinched while you are about to cum, without sounding queer?

    I guess all this brings me to the conclusion that I am more bi than I thought. But that might not be necessary if I was able to find the right women. I am not looking for an Amazon with a whip, I just wish women would realize that sometimes a man likes a woman to take charge of the love making and give the man a rest. Does wanting to be a little passive in bed sometimes mean a man is gay? Is this a major point in what makes a man gay? I am just very confused.

    Will I ever go back? I am not sure.
     
  2. B_Hung Muscle

    B_Hung Muscle New Member

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    There are many guys here much more experience than I in this situation who can better emphathize with you and opine on your dilemma. I guess I would just ask why you view your sexuality in terms of sides.

    If you enjoy sex with women, perhaps it's just an issue of finding a more pro-active female partner. Madame Zora, I'm passing this off to you.

    If you enjoy sex with men, relax and go with it. But, dude, get over the "how do you tell a woman you want your nipples pinched without sounding queer" stuff. If you like something, you like something.

    I've gotten plenty of happy endings from various massage therapists. I agree with you about the intensity of the orgasm -- you're super relaxed and kicking back and enjoying the touch. The trick is to find a partner with whom you're just as relaxed, mix in a little love and honesty and commitment, and the orgasms are even more intense.
     
  3. Alley Blue

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    Before I say anything else, I just want to say your honesty and openness in telling about your situation was both fascinating and moving.

    I feel alot of women of a certain “mature age group” think that being passive is the role a women is "suppose" to assume. But keep in mind not all women, in that age group or outside of that age group feel this way. I guess the point I'm trying to make is perhaps you've just gotten into a rut of finding all the wrong women; women who aren’t meeting your desires. There are women out there who aren’t passive at all, and can be proactive in any given love making session. Maybe you simply haven’t found that women.



    Before you make any major decisions, don't forget to fully evaluate your feelings and keep an open mind.
     
  4. Max

    Max New Member

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    I had a relationship years ago with the nicest girl you could possibly want to meet, and who into the bargain had fallen for me in a big way; it was obvious to everyone.

    But although she loved me as deeply perhaps as I have ever been loved, it became pretty clear that for her "sex" was my job, not hers. I found that a complete turn off (just as much of a turn off as my size seemed to be to her), and it was enough to end the relationship.

    Bottom line: I don't think your desire to share the active/passive roles is at all irrational, nor do I think it is necessarily a clue to your sexuality. Only you can know that.

    Just as we men need to be taught bedroom manners, women too need to be shown how to please their men. If she loves you, she won't mind the tuition one bit.
     
  5. FrankTO

    FrankTO Member

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    Hey dude,

    I know exactly what you're talking about, and I can tell you it has nothing to do with sexual preference. Whether you like men or women, or both to varying degrees, you need someone to give you pleasure and love: that's a human need, not a female need or a "gay" need. I like men and I'm having a similar problem with my partner. In all the time we've been together, all my orgasms have come from my own hand. We're starting to work on it but isn't easy. Over time, you begin to assume that if the other guy wanted to do things differently, he would say something; that's not always the case.

    Some people expect their partners to take charge, and you're doing just that if you tell them plainly that sometimes, you want them to do things in a particular way, or you like to lie back and be taken care of. You might be pleasantly surprised; however, if they don't respond to the needs you now know you have, then they're simply not suited to you.

    Frank
     
  6. c.dub

    c.dub New Member

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    Is there any issue with you being more vocal? Why is telling someone to play with you nips "queer"? Do it yourself to show her what you like or need. Maybe start by asking your partner if there is anything that you can do that you aren't. That lends itself to her asking the same, if she doesn't maybe she doesn't care about your pleasure, in which case you shouldn't care about hers. Just look for a way to open up an avenue of dialogue. Any you shouldn't feel that you need to justify your enjoyment of men, it's just that, enjoyment. Hoped I helped, cheers!
     
  7. Pene_Negro_Grande

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    Friend maybe you are not looking in the right bars for sexual aggressive women....I know I see them out a lot....They are the ones who will usually approach you and you know what they are all about....Definitely had the massage treatment too with this hot girl....Those folks in that industry are nicely trained to handle bodies....
     
  8. Lex

    Lex
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    Wow, I also applaud your openess and honesty as well. I think that, as Max, stated, we (readers) can not say for sure that your desire to be with men and your tiring of your sex life "rut" with your GF are inversely related. There is an aggression that man 2 man contact can have that, frankly, many women don't display because it is seen as being "slutty" or "trampy." Also--I understand the frustration is trying to please a woman--the female orgasm is a mystery to most. Only you can know what your orientation is. At the same time, having a satisfying sexual relationship means both partners taking the time and making the effort to fully please one another. She should try to meet you have way.
     
  9. BetterThanAverage

    BetterThanAverage New Member

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    I think you're looking at two different issues here, not one. First, you're not getting what you need from the women you have sex with. I agree with c.dub that there's nothing wrong with asking for what you want or showing her, etc. You definitely shouldn't have to do all the work (unless you want to). Not being very experienced with the ladies, I'll defer to some of the others on this board (we're still waiting for MZ to put in her $.02), but it seems to me that you're just finding the wrong women. Even I know women who love sex and like to be more aggressive, and I'm gay! Get out there and find you one! I know - easier said than done, and I really hope you're successful here. Sounds like you're a caring, sensitive lover, and you deserve to get exactly what you want. Just don't be afraid to ask for it. But "sounding queer"? Comeon, guy. If she thinks you wanting your nips tweaked sounds queer, she's not the girl for you, I think.

    The second issue is that you like having sex with men. So what? Who cares what percentage bi you are? Lots of guys on this board like having sex with women and with men. Just own it, enjoy it, and dump the guilt. What's to feel guilty about? You enjoy it, he enjoys it, it's hot, and, like you said, you have the creamy proof all over your chest. It's all good. As long as you're honest with yourself and with your partners, no harm, no foul.

    Hope you've gotten something out of my little rant. Just be careful out there. Bi guys are at risk like the rest of us, and we've all got to be aware of it.

    Good luck, Dude. I hope you can find some peace and realize that there's nothing wrong with you. You're a sexual being, and you're still learning what, for you, that encompasses. Good for you.

    Cheers.
     
  10. madame_zora

    Gold Member

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    Sorry I'm late guys!

    First off, that was an amazing post, Dude, I'm sure a lot of the guys can relate to most of what you said. I'm in my 40's and I think that for a lot of women in my age bracket and older, sex is just not their comfort zone, if that makes sense. We were raised to believe "good girls don't" then told very little else. Most people stop growing emotionally around their 20's- it's not that they can't, they just don't put forth the effort. Your observation that the women in your life expect you to do all the work is probably spot on, and I am sorry that that is the case.

    You write "Sometimes I like being made love to" and that nearly broke my heart! Of course you would, everyone needs that. Who would want to have to do all the foreplay, worry about erection, worry about getting their partner off, not feel free to discuss their own needs? That sounds horrible, and I'm sure that's what sex is like for many men. To be fair, a lot of men my age are just as uncomfortable talking about sex, they just want to do it, get off, and get it over with without thinking about what I want, so both genders suffer because of a lack of communication.

    "Fear of the penis" grips a lot of women well into their adult years. I know a lot of women who don't give head and are afraid of semen. What a load of shit! Dicks are delicious and the creamy filling ain't so bad either! The younger generations are doing better, but that may not be a big help to you unless you are interested in younger women. There is good news though. Although we are rare, there are some women who actually DO like to sometimes take a more active role is sex, at least taking turns on who is the more dominant one. If this is something you want, I would let your prospective partners know. You could bring it up by saying things like "I want a PARTNER in sex, not an obligation" but not during sex, of course. If you find a woman you can communicate well with in other areas, then talk to her about this as well. If she doesn't know you are missing something in your lovemaking, she won't get better. If she doesn't care to try after you make your needs known, dump her and move on. Life is too short for you to have to endure consistant neglect.

    Now, as for attraction to men, there are probably things two men can share that a man and woman never will, at least not in the same way. You may very well find that this occasional thing will just be a part of your life and what you want to satisfy yourself. Believe me, being masturbated at a massage parlor is nothing unusual and quite often a very wonderful experience. It's nice to ride the boat rather than drive it sometimes, isn't it? Whether the masseuse is a man or woman, the experience is one of total attention to YOUR body, which is a nice feeling for anyone.

    I also felt a twinge of pain when I read about how you keep your dick so clean- guy, normal bathing is good enough for anyone, your dick isn't "dirty" because it's not circumcised! That is the natural state of a man, unaltered by a doctor's knife. Anyone should wash off before sex if they've just been to the gym, but there's nothing particularly different required of you. If a woman is using that as an excuse not to go down on you, it's just that- an excuse. If she doesn't WANT to do it, she's missing out on the incredibly empowering feeling of a cock in her mouth with the man's total pleasure depending on her every move. If she learns to enjoy this power it will inevitably spill over into her role in sex overall, but if she doesn't have the desire to begin with, she's probably going to remain a dead lay. Yuck.

    I have preached forever about the importance of sexual compatibility. Many argue with me that if you love someone sex will work itself out. Bullshit! There are some things worth discussing BEFORE you consider involving yourself in a relationship with another person, and I feel strongly that sex is a big one. I have a hard time believing that someone who is sexually unsatisfied will have a very bright view of their life in general. It leads to depression, self-loathing, anger management issues, all sorts of bad feelings. I would not see it as a stretch at all to conclude that it could lead to increased stress levels and even high blood pressure. Stress is a killer, lack of sexual release is bad for the male prostate, but lack of emotional support is far worse, at least from where I stand. You sound unfulfilled, and that's just not okay.

    Sorry for the long post, but this really got to me. My advice: stop worrying about if your desires sound "gay", they dont! If you desire the feeling of a guy's dick in your mouth, that's a gay desire, but that doesn't define you as a gay man, just a man with a gay desire, see the difference? Being gay is a whole lot more than just an activity two or three times a year. I go to a casino that often, does that make me a "gambler"? While I'm there, yes. When I leave- well, I'll let you decide. I go to probably 50 times as many concerts as I do casinos, so maybe I'm a 98% music lover and a 2% gambler, get my drift? The whole of our lives determines who we ARE, it is not defined by only one thing or another. I hope you begin to see your needs as important and seek fulfillment in whatever way makes you happiest, regardless of who it's with. Wanting your nipples tweaked makes you human, by the way.
     
  11. BetterThanAverage

    BetterThanAverage New Member

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    Just the right length (so to speak) Madame Zora. As usual. I've missed this board, and I'm glad I'm back, mostly to see posts like this. It's so nice to see people actually trying to help others on a board, not one up them.
     
  12. steve319

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    Me too. My heart really goes out to you, dude77007. You deserve happiness and fulfillment from your relationships as do we all.

    I can't add much to what's been said, but here are my impressions.

    Communication seems to be the key word, man. If you want to have your nipples pinched or sucked or whatever else, then please just say so. A friend of mine expressed this to me in a way that helped it hit home for me: if this is a woman you trust enough to have as a sex partner, you should also trust her enough to say what you're thinking and what you need.

    While it certainly sounds as if the female partners you've had are stuck in an outdated mode of thinking about their sex roles, maybe, to some extent, you are as well, you know? Just because you're the man doesn't mean you have to be the one doing all the work any more than it means you have to be the strong, silent type. Learning to express your own needs and desires is a big part of being in touch with your sexual side, and you owe it to yourself and your partner to have all of that at your disposal. Though it's hard, try to let go of those pointless expectations that a man has to be grim, emotionless, and in charge and let your natural needs come to the surface.

    I might be totally off base here, but it sounds to me as if you are too tough on yourself and are taking the opportunity to punish yourself for wanting to vary from what society has taught us is "the norm." You have to be able to love yourself more fully if you want to love others, you know?

    We support you on your journey, dude77007. :pals:
     
  13. Cosota

    Cosota Member

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    I find women's bodies beautiful, arousing, and being intimate with one feels very different physically and emotionally compared with men. However I most often feel the desire to have sex with men. I love the way that lpsg recognises the complexity of sexual attraction and gives you the chance to assigned percentages to your sexuality, perhaps it is just another system of labels but a more flexible and accurate one in my opinion.

    If I had to use the terms gay or bisexual applied to myself then I'd say I am a gay man, who occasionally has sex with women. It happens so seldom that when it does, if the situation is right, it feels very fulfilling and special but that doesn’t make me straight.

    As to finding a truly compatible sex partner, I bet lots of people would agree that it is not an easy task. The right one for you will come along and when she does, hold her tight, and let her fuck your brains out!

    The way you speak so openly about yourself and your emotions makes you sound very attractive by the way.
     
  14. dude77007

    dude77007 New Member

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    Thanks Folks for all the good comments and acceptance. I see now where there is nothing wrong with my needs. From now on ,I am going to be more assertive or more communicative about what I llike. More so, I am not going to waste my time on partners that won.t meet me half way, at least after a period of time. I don't think I want anymore bad sex. I 've got a good right hand that never lets me down and knows what I like. LOL You've taught me that my needs are as important as anyone elses. What's more they are not unique. I am not going to give up the hunt.

    As for my other issues, So what. I don't owe anyone an explaination. The only person I have to answer to right now is me and my GOD. I play safe and selective. If I were in a perfect relationship with a women I wouldn't go messing around. I just don't believe one should do that whether straight or gay. I have decided to stop worrying about what if one of these encounters might materialize into something. Right now I am thinking I wouldn't permit it to but, this is now and not then. I didn't realize until I read your comments that I even had such freedom. Isn't it funny how we don't realize we have choices. I guess it is our upbringing and life experiences to date.


    Thanks to wonderful group of people

    Dude
     
  15. jonb

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    The only way you can get her to do the work is to tell her what you want. (I also think this is the big problem with the straight world. Guys are expected to do all the work AND instinctively know what she wants.)
     
  16. Matthew

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    This can be a problem for gay men in kind of a different way. Quentin Crisp once said that when two gay men get together, it takes a meeting of the board of directors to decide who is going to do what to whom.
     
  17. Doc

    Doc New Member

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    I think the only thing I can help you with, is asking you what you think of yourself. Do you feel you are bi, in the sense that you like having 'sex' with both men and women, and can imagine doing so. If you are, then enjoy it, and let go of the 'if I tell her to do something she'll think I'm gay' business. Once you know what you like, you can then find someone who like those attributes in you and you can share your kinks with them.

    I have never had a problem talking with any of my GF's, and this has always been a great asset for me. But I know a lot of guys do have a problem with communication.

    If you don't talk about what you like or don't like to your partner you can't find the best partner that matches your needs. Look at communication as a process for making you happy, not your partner. And once you are happy, chances are whoever you are with will be so too.

    As for the need to me 'laid', I think if you are honest with the women you are seeing, you will discover very quickly that a good many do like fucking you, and will oblige in taking care of your needs without having you lift a finger.


    :evilgrin:
     
  18. B_UNKNOWN321

    B_UNKNOWN321 New Member

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    Sounds as if you have arrived at a different division of straight and gay than 90 and 10. I would be leery of a real commitment to a woman as they are usually not too understanding about a bisexual partner. You will probably always need a constant change of scenery and it sounds that you know how to work both sides of the table to the satisfaction of both types of partners. You probably enjoy sex entirely too, too much ever to forego either for exclusivity with the other. Just enjoy the sex and forget trying to guess what is going to happen next -- you know very well what is going to happen next -- you are going to be a guy who always derives lots of sexual satisfaction from women and men for different reasons and can give what they want so do it without guilt and a song in your heart for coming to grips with conflicts that have previously kept you from total sexual fulfillment. Tom
     
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