World Reaction to America

Discussion in 'Politics' started by vince, Nov 7, 2008.

  1. vince

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    When was the last time you saw a wave of millions of people around the world celebrating America? They are pouring praise not only on Obama, but on the American people. There is huge hope for a better world and people everywhere, in every corner of the planet, are optimistic.

    To those of you who say the world hates America, it's not true. I've met many people who don't hate the US, but they are disgusted by some of it's actions.

    People around the world look to the U.S. for political and moral leadership. When the U.S.A. lives up to it's ideals, to the principles the founders laid down, it is most powerful and influential.

    The problems are huge. The hopes are high. Many are hoping this opportunity does not slip away.

    Are these hopes justified? Is positive change really coming? How can this good will we are seeing be used to solve problems at home and abroad?

    Or is it all a just a passing fad of empty words and false promise? Are we naive or can things really change?
     
  2. lucky8

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    What type of things? I think about this, and I always end up wondering what could the U.S. do to make things better? What things are bad that we can control? There aren't too many that come to mind
     
  3. CALAMBO

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    vince...passing fad...time will tell...but i have lived long enough to be a bit pessimistic about the change's promised...yes we will still be the world defender of freedom but the cost will be high and the world will also have to pay the bill...not just AMERICA...just hope i get to live long enough to say i am wrong...i hope i am wrong
     
  4. D_Chaumbrelayne_Copprehead

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    I think it's the power of perception. People around the world know that the USA is a nation that was founded on an idea, the notion that people could determine for themselves how to govern themselves. Over time, we have had freedom and material advantages that many looked at from afar and longed for ... and many countries have overthrown oppressive governments because they were inspired by our example.

    For the last eight years, the fear-driven control freaks (you know ... neoconservatives) were in charge. Now that the USA has taken a big step to turn its back on its racist past, people are inspired all over again all over the world! AND WHO CAN BLAME THEM, HUH?

    Don't know how many problems we can solve, but maybe we can inspire others to find new ways to work on their own problems.
     
  5. VeeP

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    The whole world is acting like Obama Girl right now, and it's nauseating. Give it some time... they won't think he's so "fab" anymore. Once he takes office there's gonna be so many hands out it's gonna make his head spin.

    Speaking as a pragmatist, that is... lol
     
    #5 VeeP, Nov 7, 2008
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2008
  6. Group51

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    1. US can lead the fight against climate change and environmental destruction.

    2. US can encourage the creation of a viable Palestine based on UN242 - 2 state solution.

    3. US can respect and encourage democracy everywhere, even when they are your enemy, even when your friend is a dictator.

    4. US can support developing countries by moderating free trade with fair trade.

    5. US can support the International Criminal Court and other trans-national institutions like global finance regulation. Watch out for the black helicopters. :biggrin1:

    These are all things where it's been USA against most everyone else too often.
     
  7. Flashy

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    well as the British paper the Times said :


    Around the world, the expectations are impossibly high, as the President-elect has already acknowledged. In Europe, many of those who have cheered him seem to expect a US president who will use all of the US’s power and financial weight to solve the world’s problems, regardless of its own interest.
    They will be disappointed.


    --


    We certainly have a role to play, but what the hell does the world expect us to do? Aside from Iraq and Afghanistan, what else would they like us to do for them?

    Why do we have to fix the world's problems? We have major problems of our own to deal with, and i say to the rest of the world, i do not know what you want, but get in line behind our own citizens, before we help anyone else.

    You take care of your own first and foremost.

    -what do the countries of africa who have so many problems want? We have no troops to commit to stop the endless cycle of wars there, and whether folks like Bush or not, he has never gotten credit for doing some worthwhile things for the continent. what mroe can be done? Sudan, now the Congo, AIDS...sorry we should not be doling out foreign aid to africa if our own citizens are losing our homes. They come first.

    Considering our last misadventure in africa when we sent in troops to help in peacekeeping, (Somalia) that should not occur again.

    -in regards to Climate Change/Kyoto, etc. frankly, i do not care about the rest of the world. we should be moving towards alternative energy for our own future security and health, and we do not need the rest of the world to help us reform our own energy problems. once we break ourselves of foreign oil and the attendant misery of dealing with the middle east, the sooner we can leave that awful region.

    -in regards to NATO, it is simply a waste nowadays. Let Europe handle its own problems and spend more of their GDP to patrol the Balkans, which is their own little mess.

    I do not care about defending Europe from the Russians anymore. If the europeans are concerned about the Russians, let them spend more.

    The only people we would ever fight a forseeable war against in the future are the Russians or the Chinese, and the likelihood of major war is madness. Not to mention how intertwined the US and Chinese economies are.

    -How much more aid are we supposed to give? We are essentially bankrupt, and have our own citizens to take care of.

    -If people want hope for a better world, let *THEM* create it. When we ignore problems in the rest of the world people call us callous and detached, when we intervene, we are nosy, pushy, imperialist and unilateralist.

    -Does the world hate america? Maybe not at the moment, but anti-americanism was not exactly a Bush administration phenomenon only. Anti-americanism was widespread long before Bush, Bush just brought it to a boil.

    -The rest of the world seems to want an america like in Gulliver's Travels, where we are Gulliver and they are the Lilliputians. We are a nice sweet benevolent giant, that they can keep tied down, and we somehow exist to convince them that we are really not all that bad and nice, and they use us at their convenience to subdue and attack the Blefuscudians they need handled, but then when they demand we do their bidding in becoming subservient to their demands, and we do not listen, everyone gets angry and tells us how selfish we are because we may have our own issues or beliefs, be they right or wrong....and it is okay for them to have their systems, and agendas, but when we have ours we are non-compliant and arrogant.

    - as for the rest of the world being "disgusted by the US Actions", well, i say pot and kettle. I am disgusted by the French involvement in the Rwandan Genocide. I am disgusted by the fact they exploit French West Africa to retain their clout and power. I am disgusted by the Chinese in Tibet and their threatening of Taiwan and brutal repression of their own citizens.

    There are plenty of other countries whose actions are just as disgusting. That does not make ours right, but throwing stones in glass houses is something many in the rest of the world seem to do with regularity where the US is concerned.

    -nothing will change in the world. mended relations with europe does not mean much will be done differently, with the exception of the scaling down of the war efforts.

    -Europe wants certain things from us...well sorry, international relations is a quid pro quo. Looking out for #1 is the raison d'etre for all countries...the europeans want what is best for *THEM* not for us. Hopefully things will be repaired but they are going to be soprely disappointed if they expect america to just begin kowtowing to demands. Obama's first responsibility is not to the world...it is to American citizens.

    Whatever "goodwill" is out there, it will evaporate soon once people realize that the United States mission in this world is not, in fact to be subservient to what the rest of the world wants, but to serve its own interests.

    You may see this as selfish, but every coutnry does it...the difference is because of US power, it is magnified onto the world stage.

    China is a growing power, and will surpass us one day...what will the world say about China, based on its record thus far? For whatever slights and arrogance the world claimes of america, imagine the power of america, magnified with unbridled economic power, a population of 1.3 billion and growing, not to mention expansionist, and with no regard for human rights what so ever.

    The US can longer help the rest of the world considering the situation now arising. We can only offer bandaids, and friendship, and cooperation whrere it can be made, like on nuclear non-proliferation, terrorism and other issues that can be agreed upon iwth little discord.


    - things will nto change in a world this big, diverse, angry, divided, violent and growing larger every day.

    the world is marching towards its eventual sad conclusion, overpopulation, lost resources, deforestation, pollution, species disappearing, warfare, corruption, etc.

    the world is a very deluded place if it thinks Obama is somehow going to save us from problems that have managed to resist and get worse despite every charismatic leader in history...JFK, Mandela, Clinton, Bishop Tutu, Pope John Paul 2 etc etc etc etc

    the world's problems are becoming impervious to solution, much in the way a simple virus mutates after developing an immunity to the anti-biotics and morphing into a super-virus, with no cure.

    We cannot solve the world's problems...the rest of the world were thrilled to get Clinton in 1992...what exactly did that change in the grand scheme of things?

    very little.

    it will be the same with Obama. he will probably do a decent job, the talk will be high minded and inspiring, but, alas, there is really very little that can be done to solve the world's problems...sad but true.

    it is an unfortunate reality.
     
  8. lucky8

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    Ok, but what about the other 194 countries? Why does the world look to us for to solve all of the world's problems? We have to take care of ourselves before we can begin to take care of everyone else. China and Russia are just as guilty as we are. You're acting like America is an all-mighty force that has all the answers just because we are a wealthy, powerful nation. To make the world better we would have to first conquer the world, and you've seen how well the world likes that right? We can't take care of countries that don't take care of themselves.

    What if I turned the question around and asked the same of the UK? Plenty of wealth and military might, why don't you guys throw your weight around and get things done? Answer: because it's not that easy for one nation to change the world. The same answer applies to the US
     
  9. Flashy

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    perfectly and concisely stated Lucky, my sentiments exactly though i took alot longer to say it :wink:
     
  10. Group51

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  11. lucky8

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    Foreign aid...lol. In case you haven't noticed, we haven't exactly had much money to give for the last 7 years...the money we are using is borrowed...we're not exactly wealthy right now.
     
  12. Flashy

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    so you are suggesting, that of our 2008 budget of roughly 2.9 trillion dollars, that we just chuck out an extra 1% to the world at random? i mean, what they hell, it is only 29 billion right? that is nearly $100 for every american citizen...and i am sorry, but that money is needed to help americans in need.


    P.S. in that article about our aid during the Tsunami relief effort, of course, not included was the involvement of our military in support of the effort...

    military costs are not free.

    here are some facts that were pertinent for the immediate 6 weeks following the event...and this is by no means the final list...

    if you would like to factor in the costs of Operation Unified Assistance, that article should have noted the miltiary costs involved

    DoD Relief Efforts Factsheet Summary
    SUPPORT TO DATE (As of 14 February 2005)
    Effective 14 February CSF 536 has ceased operations in the tsunami disaster affected countries. This Fact Sheet reflects the disaster assistance provided to the closing to date. A small number of personnel and ships remain in the area providing support as needed. if you need any additional information please contact USPACOM Public Affairs at 808-477-1341.
    The Department of Defense is providing assistance to the governments of Indonesia, Sri Lanka, Thailand and other affected nations as they deal with the effects of the earthquake and tsunami.
    [​IMG] U.S. Pacific Command Graphic Display of Assets
    (as of February 14, 2005)

    SUPPORT TO DATE : There are 683 U.S. Navy, Marine, Army, Air Force and Coast Guard service members involved in providing relief support.
    [SIZE=-3][/SIZE]


    Currently Afloat:272
    Currently on Ground: 411
    Thailand 411
    Indonesia 0
    Sri Lanka 0


    SHIPS:
    ON STATION

    8 U.S. Navy ships





    AIRCRAFT:
    ON STATION

    2 C-5 Heavy Lift cargo aircraft
    1 C-17 Heavy Lift cargo aircraft
    0 C-130 Medium Lift cargo aircraft
    2 KC-130 Medium Lift cargo/ tanker aircraft
    14 helicopters are in the region

    - 4 helicopters from USS FT MCHENRY
    - 8 helicopters from USS ESSEX
    - 2 land-based helicopters


    .A(Cumulative Totals)
    Missions flown​
    Relief supplies and equipment delivered to region​
    Recon Assessment
    67
    (567.8 Hours) ​
    Total:
    24,504,651 lbs​
    Fixed wing
    1,328
    (4635.1 Hours)​
    Helicopters
    2,222
    (4,876.1 Hours) ​


    Combined Support Force 536 (CSF-536) Effort to date:
    9,487,681 lbs of relief supplies delivered


    NUMBER OF PATIENTS TREATED TO DATE:Total no. cases treated to date is 2,238
     
    #12 Flashy, Nov 7, 2008
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2008
  13. vince

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    Bringing up US relations with the rest of the world is always dangerous.

    I think that is narrow and egocentric view of the world lucky. I really don't hear many outside the asking for the US to solve all the world's problems. Help yes, but do it all by yourselves? I don't think so. Where does this idea come from that the US is expected to solve everybody else's problem? Or give them hand outs? The US isn't the only nation that gives foreign aid. Some give more per capita than the US.

    What a lot of people hope to see is a more cooperative attitude on some of issues listed by Group51 above. Finger pointing and saying China or Russia or anybody else is just as guilty, is not leadership. I'd like to see leadership by example on the environment, development and a whole host of other issues.

    Yeah, I can see fixing domestic problems have to have priority. Putting your house in order a is necessary, otherwise you can't do the other things. But the idea that you withdraw and put "me first" is antiquated. The world a changing fast and more connected and interdependent than ever before. It not going away and when you are the wealthiest and strongest nation, what you do in the world, does affect the lives and fortunes of others.

    I agree that some other countries can do more. The US can do lot to arm twisting on some of those into being more affirmative.

    But I think that where a lot of the current hope comes from is
    1- the fact that a member of a minority can win the Presidency in the US.
    2- that he seems to be highly intelligent, competent, and humane, and maybe will not make some of the major blunders of recent years, in foreign and economic policy areas.
     
  14. Group51

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    I don't think anyone in the world will begrudge the US from concentrating on domestic issues, especially the economy. Please realise that your sub-prime crisis has imperilled many many economies!

    Fallout from UK Banking Crisis: Northern Rock Woes Could Hit German Investment Funds - SPIEGEL ONLINE - News - International

    It is not just that there are no red states or blue states; we are in fact one planet, an interconnected world. No, Palestine is not in your country, but the conflict and injustice there does harm you when it fuels Al Quaeda. No, you may not care if the Pacific islands sink into the sea, but if you don't help end dependence on fossil fuels, you'll be swept away by China and India's economic growth and consumption before being frazzled by global warming. You may think you need to put your interests first, but that's exactly why you attacked Iraq (they were going to 'attack' you, remember).

    People are not falling over themselves because they think Obama is the second coming. We're excited because he comes across as a rational man, he believes in evolution, he believes in science, he believes in facts and not just his gut, and he is obviously aware of the world outside US borders.

    And he's black. But that's much less important than the idea of a President able to talk to the world in a way we can understand and respect, because we think he respects us.
     
  15. Gl3nn

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    We (Europeans) don't see the people in America as bad.
    It's just that the past 8 years so many bad decisions were taken.

    America feels like it has to be the policeman of the world...it doesn't!
    Sometimes we feel they're meddling too much. We might have looked at it for leadership in the past...not anymore. The EU is growing in size and strenght.

    Still, the whole world has to work together if we want to solve the problems. Global warming, terrorism, ...

    But war... not really the european way.


    It's good that Obama was elected. Hope some change for the good will arrive now.
     
  16. houtx48

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    want to see some happy people around the world just wait until the uhaul trailer behind bush's smokin beater pulls out of the whitehouse driveway.. there will be dancin in the streets.
     
  17. Group51

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    "military costs are not free."

    Just have to say. This is a bit silly. Two questions I don't have the answer to: If the military was not in Aceh but instead fighting in Gulf would it have been free? If the military was not in Aceh but idle on base would it have been free?

    Was the US the only country to send troops as well as aid to Aceh? Of course not, and I'm sure you weren't even suggesting it. Does it make sense to try to compare military size vs contribution to the effort. Not really, the US military consumes a full 50% of all military spending in the world. But apparently we sent something too.

    BBC NEWS | World | Asia-Pacific | Tsunami aid: Who's giving what
     
  18. Gl3nn

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    And that money could have been used for education, health care, protecting its citizens from the economic crisis etc.

    But instead...spending billions on a war that shouldn't have been there in the first place. (attacking a whole country because of something terrible a group did is not ok)


    But things will change now
     
  19. Flashy

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    oh *OUR* sub prime crisis? Sorry, it is everyone's sub prime crisis now. Laughable...10s of trillions of dollars of credit default swaps were traded by major banks, hedge funds, investment houses all over the world who spun off hundreds of billions in profits from trading derivatives.

    So are you going to help us out when Europe, who has a much higher exposure because of risky lending to developing nations implodes?

    nobody forced other banks to buy swaps...your greed motivated you to do it, same as everyone else...you saw $ signs or euro signs.

    these were high risk derivative investments, and firms all over the world were eager to snatch them to make big profits when they could, and took the risk, just like everyone else.

    oh and by the way...considering it is *WESTERN EUROPEAN* banks and institutions who hold nearly *ALL* the exposure to the emerging markets bubble which is bursting, spare us the "our fault" innuendo.

    for your information, Western Europeean institutions accounts for roughly 75% of the total $4.7 trillion in cross-border bank loans to regions like Eastern Europe, Latin America & emerging markets in Asia that they made to the regions during the global credit boom – that ammount vastly exceeds the amounts of the US sub-prime & Alt-A crash.

    that is *YOUR* fault. NOw, you are going to be in even worse shape then we are because of that exposure.

    this is going to be the second economic bomb...you only felt the side effects, rippling out from the sub-prime bomb which dropped here...the emerging markets bomb is going to drop right on western europe, and it is going to be devastating...if you think you have been through a bad time so far, just wait. it is going to make what western europe went through with sub-prime look like a happy memory. this is going to be the second globally historical meltdown in the last year, and it will be devastating.

    Austrian exoposure of banks to the emerging markets is 85% of their entire GDP!!!! they have lent massive amounts to Serbia, ukraine and hungary, who are all now begging the IMF for help and rescue.

    and other european countries are at serious risk tooo
    Switzerland is exposed for nearly 50% of its GDP, Sweden25%, UK 24% and Spain is at 23%.

    we here in the US only have 4% exposure of GDP to it.

    That is *YOUR* fault. That was european greed, your version of the sub-prime disaster...hoping to reap huge profits by lending efectively to your version of the "sub prime" market, which were developing countries without much credit or assets...like Serbia, Hungary, Latvia, other baltic states and eastern european nations and other latin american countries and european ones...

    we here in the US and also in Japan, did not make those investments...that was Europe's play with the intention of reaping massive profits when everything was hunky dory.

    what about what Spain has done? All spanish banks have lent over 315 billion US dollars to Latin America, while all american banks have loaned latin america a bit over half of that total (170 billion)

    Spain had its own version of the subprime disaster, since theu wrote alot of risky loans internally, and they are now in huge trouble...on top of that, since their loans to South America are so high, they are hanging by a thread, because Argentia is going to default, and Brazilian fincacial markets, currency etc are going to crash as well.

    what europe has done now is comparable to the asian crisis in 1996, and we know how that worked out...so before you begin pointing fingers over sub-prime, you should know that the IMF did a report that was entitled "Asia 1996 and Eastern Europe 2006 – Déjà vu all over again?" – and it stated that the region "exhibited the most dangerous excesses in the world"

    England has nearly 330 billion in exposure in the emerging markets in asia, which is roughly equal to US and japanese loans combined.

    we certainly have our own problems with sub-prime...but you have dropped your version of the sub-prime bomb on yourselves...and, more importantly, europe does not have a coordinated central policy to deal with it...



    and sorry to break it to you, Palestine is not important at all when compared to our economy and the global economy as a whole.

    you worry about the mess you have created, and we will deal with our mess. The difference is, europe cannot agree on how to figure out a central way out of the coming economic bomb, because there are so many different governments...if your governments cannot even formulate a policy that you all can agree on, what exactly do you expect us to do for you?

    spare me this accusation of "Please realise that your sub-prime crisis has imperilled many many economies! "

    Your and the rest of europe's greed and lust for profit is just as voracious as America's, and you have imperilled your own economies just as much if not more with your actions...you made the play to benefit from our sub-prime market, trading derivativres, and you also created your own global sub-prime market, based in eastern europe, asia, and latin america, where instead of offering risky loans to individuals who could not afford the homes they were buying, you offered risky loans to entire countries and their risky ventures and emerging markets.

    you have your own little disaster, and you have done just as good a job at imperilling many many economies as we ever could.

    spare us the lecture and get your own house in order.
     
  20. Flashy

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    how do i say this politely? f*ck off.

    you didn't count the cost of our military operations, which was more than 350 million. I could give two shits what other countries were giving.

    you do realize, when the military, ie. ships, helicopters and cplanes are not at their base, they need things like food and fuel? do you know how much it costs to maintain and supply naval ships?

    the military that went to Aceh, was not in the gulf fighting. They were part of Pacific Command, and came to help on command...

    the US costs for the military effort ran at 5 million US Dollars a day, over nearly 7 weeks....you do the math close to 250 million in operational costs...


    of course that link that you showed was from January 27th...and the operations by US forces were not done till mid February, so of course you neglected that and it neglected to mention that in addition to the 350 million initial aid, Bush also got another 600 million from congress in February approved, for long term reconstruction projects, but you did not print that,

    the true number as of June 2005, Aid agency officials said the tsunami aid being provided by the U.S. government, was 901 million dollars, and even that has been far exceeded by the contributions of private Americans and corporations, which to date total more then plus 1.3 billion in private donations, one from myself, that i was proud to donate to help the victims.

    the united states government and its citizens donated roughly a total of 2.2 billion US dollars to help the unfortunate people of that disaster, so get the hell off our backs.

    and spare us the baiting...want to know why americans get sick of hearing what we should be doing by the rest of the world and stop listening?

    your postings are exhibit A. You berate us with *YOUR* opinion, tell us what we are doing wrong...then, get the facts wrong you criticize us with, and then wonder why we don't listen and then act on our own when we get tired of hearing the same nonsense.

    maybe *YOU* should lead the world...after all, you know what to do, and we certainly don't and you will make sure to remind us of that. So by all means, take the lead and show us how it is done.

    you can teach us from your examples in Rwanda, Bosnia, the splendid way the EU gets along among itself, the lovely way Muslims and europeans interact in their host countries, and all the other things you guys are so good at while we suck at everything.

    if you want leadership, then lead. Don't wait for us.
     
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