Worldwide Elections 2008 #4 - Zimbabwe

ManlyBanisters

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And now what? Finally other African leaders have started being more critical of Mugabe, but where does that actually get the people of Zimbabwe?

From Paul Wolfowitz:

Since Mr. Tsvangirai's withdrawal announcement, criticism from African governments has become stronger – even from Angola, one of Mugabe's closest allies. This provides an opening for a more active role by the international community.
Words of condemnation help to deny Mugabe's claims of legitimacy, but words alone are not enough. Specific sanctions against some of the leaders of the violence may also be useful, but their impact will be limited. Broad economic sanctions will only increase the suffering of Zimbabwe's people, whose misery has already been increased by Mugabe's refusal to accept emergency food assistance from the U.N.
There is also talk about U.N. peacekeeping forces or other forms of military intervention, but this does not seem to be what the people of Zimbabwe want. What the people of Zimbabwe clearly do want is to maintain the pressure on Mugabe and his cronies for peaceful, democratic change.
The international community should commit – as publicly and urgently as possible – to provide substantial support if Mugabe relinquishes power. Even if Mr. Tsvangirai were to become president tomorrow he would still face a daunting set of problems: restoring an economy in which hyperinflation has effectively destroyed the currency and unemployment is a staggering 70%; getting emergency food aid to millions who are at risk of starvation and disease; promoting reconciliation after the terrible violence; and undoing Mugabe's damaging policies, without engendering a violent backlash.
The international community should also say it will move rapidly to remove the burden of debts accumulated by the Mugabe regime and not force a new government to spend many months and precious human resources on the issue (as Liberia was forced to do to deal with the debts of Samuel Doe).
Given the strength and ruthlessness of the regime, change will not come easily. Nevertheless, developing a concrete vision for the future would help to rally the people of Zimbabwe around a long-term effort to achieve a peaceful transition. It would give Mr. Tsvangirai important negotiating leverage. And it could attract disaffected members of the regime.
Most importantly, dramatic action by the international community could embolden other Africans to confront the tragedy in their backyard. One step would be to offer Mugabe an honorable way out. South Africa or some other country should offer Mugabe a safe and comfortable retirement if he leaves without further violence.
Those who have suffered personally at his hands may feel that this would deprive them of justice. But this is a time when a compromise needs to be struck between the need for justice and the need to stop further violence. South Africa itself, under Nelson Mandela's leadership, once set an example for the world in this regard. Today it could help Zimbabweans develop their own process of "Truth and Reconciliation."
Ideally a non-Western institution, such as the African Development Bank, could take the lead in summoning a Friends of Zimbabwe conference. Hopefully, the wealthy oil-producing countries would participate. So too could China and India, successful developing countries that have shown a new interest in Africa.


How to Put the Heat on Mugabe - WSJ.com
 

dong20

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And now what? Finally other African leaders have started being more critical of Mugabe, but where does that actually get the people of Zimbabwe?

It's an immensely frustrating scenario. I loathe 'arbitrary' intervention in the affairs of other nations, at the same time if ever there was a need to remove a leader, by force if necessary - this is a good example. I believe this needs an 'African' solution, however, yet despite the 'tough talk', real, meaningful action still seems distant. Too much cultural baggage ...

Telling (but entirely unsurprising) that Mbeki will not be attending an 'emergency' meeting in Mbabane. The man is a snake, IMO. As I've said before, Zuma may be a thug but at least he appears willing to distance himself from Mbeki. Of course he needs to do this anyway and Mugabe provides a convenient vehicle to achieve this, but every little helps.

SA is perhaps the only nation with the regional clout to achieve anything, shame it's led by a political weasel, hiding in his closet of skeletons.
 

dong20

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HRH annulled bookworm's honorary knighthood on Wednesday. Well, that ought to do the trick. I now expect him to stand down after declaring a surprise defeat in today's run off - the results of which were undoubtably 'prepared' some weeks back. I can't imagine why, but I don't expect weeks of delay in announcing the outcome.

At least Mandela ventured some 'condemnation', although speaking from a podium afforded him by Zimbabwe's former colonial ruler, his hands were pretty much behind his back. I'm sure the irony wasn't lost both of them.

Still, Mbeki was heckled in parliament, although what he deserves is a hot poker up his ass, IMO. SA is perhaps the only nation able to do anything, and yet it steadfastly does nothing.

I'll be back in the region in a few weeks, I'm more concerned than ever about what I'll find.
 

SteveHd

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Still, Mbeki was heckled in parliament, although what he deserves is a hot poker up his ass, IMO. SA is perhaps the only nation able to do anything, and yet it steadfastly does nothing.
Ooh, that was rough! :shock:

Seriously, I'm disappointed at Mbeki for his timidity but I also think that even if he'd been forcefully critical of Mugabe, it wouldn't have any effect. Mugabe (to me) is pretty damned stubborn. It appears that the only thing that could remove him is the point of a gun.
 

titan1968

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Drifterwood, I totally agree with you. I find it odd that the ANC, a party that fought against ''apartheid'' and for the equality of all the citizens of South Africa can sanction a racist and mad dictator/despot who has ruined his country of Zimbabwe (formally known as Rhodesia) and tormented her citizens. Zimbabwe used to be the bread basket of Africa, but bad management under Mugabe and drought have made it dependent on foreign aid. The situation is unacceptable. Where is the international community?

Humans seem to thrive on competition. So I find your points about the lack of credible opposition/competition in the political arena very interesting Dong.

If it could be possible, I think that things will get worse before they get better. Wow what a thought.

Can you explain why he gets support from the ANC and others? It seems irrational to me, irrespective of political and cultural paradigms.
 

dong20

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Ooh, that was rough! :shock:

Seriously, I'm disappointed at Mbeki for his timidity but I also think that even if he'd been forcefully critical of Mugabe, it wouldn't have any effect. Mugabe (to me) is pretty damned stubborn. It appears that the only thing that could remove him is the point of a gun.

Timidity? I think you misunderstood my point.

It's not timidity for which I hold Mbeki in contempt. SA controls a huge fraction of Zimbabwean electrical power, and Zimbabwe is dependent on SA economically, much as Ian Smith was back in the pre-independence days of Rhodesia. SA could bring Mugabe down very easily if she wanted, his 'stubborness' is irrelevant. There are reasons Mbeki tried to subvert the TRC ... look closer.

Drifterwood, I totally agree with you. I find it odd that the ANC, a party that fought against ''apartheid'' and for the equality of all the citizens of South Africa can sanction a racist and mad dictator/despot who has ruined his country of Zimbabwe (formally known as Rhodesia) and tormented her citizens. Zimbabwe used to be the bread basket of Africa, but bad management under Mugabe and drought have made it dependent on foreign aid. The situation is unacceptable. Where is the international community?

There is nothing 'odd' about it all except if one view the situation superficially. The reasons [elements of] the ANC, and more specifically Mbeki stand by Mugabe lies in part, in their mutual history and shared ideologies. I provided a bare outline of this earlier in the thread - in response to DW's post you cited, actually. I would add, your assertion that 'all the citizens of SA sancation Mugabe' is misguided, or at best misinformed. A great many Zimabweans feel betrayed by the ANC, with good cause.

Mugabe's explotation of the 2001/2 drought in Zimbabwe was a turning point, or rather, another turning point in Zimbabwe's history of 'African style democracy' as he (Mugabe) has, on occasion, called it.

I seldom say this sort of thing, but Mugabe must be removed, by any means necessary. It would be better if it were from within ...
 

dong20

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I wasn't implying "timidity" was your view of Mbeki. It's my view of how he's dealing with Mugabe's malfeasance.

Ok, it's hard to tell sometimes - timidity is not my view, or that of many others. Timidity could imply Mbeki is somehow 'fearful' of Mugabe or of acting assertively against him in a political or economic context, I believe neither of those considerations apply - I believe his behaviour is deliberate, motivated by self interest and a shared ideololgy with Mugabe.

I have always held a low opinion of Mbeki, and I think [finally] his motivation is increasingly, and more widely recognised, to the chagrin of many, even some within the ANC - itself a rather corrupt and neoptistic organisation these days. The 'spotlight of world opinion' is seldom welcomed by those with questionable integrity. Any good that my come from such exposure (or not) is of course, another matter.
 

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"Unabashed by critics and challenging his peers to prove their own democratic credentials, President Robert Mugabe of Zimbabwe went to an African Union meeting
...

Asha-Rose Migiro, the United Nations deputy secretary general, told the African leaders here that they had reached a 'moment of truth'.”

Yes, a realisation by African leaders that they may be required to take some collective or, (heaven forbid), personal responsibility - that they may need to demonstrate some backbone when addressing the grosser perversions perpetrated by their peers. But then of course, and Mugabe make an ironic (yet valid) point here - their own actions could thus be held up to equal scrutiny. It's a laudible ideal, but I won't hold my breath.

Denying Mugabe recognition at the AU conference could have been a good start, but then he would have missed all that harsh criticism directed at him. :rolleyes:

Undeterred by Criticism, Mugabe Joins Peers at African Union Meeting
 

Drifterwood

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So apparently we can "go hang a thousand times". Beats a tyre necklace I suppose.

This is what happens when a one trick pony uses a bogeyman to justify their existence.
 

dong20

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So apparently we can "go hang a thousand times". Beats a tyre necklace I suppose.

This is what happens when a one trick pony uses a bogeyman to justify their existence.

I'd have thought a million at least...

"South African President Thabo Mbeki said on Wednesday that outside players like the European Union or the African Union could not impose conditions for a solution to the Zimbabwe crisis.

Mbeki, who has been mediating the Zimbabwe matter since 2007, is pushing for talks that would pave the way for a power-sharing deal between President Robert Mugabe's ruling ZANU-PF and Morgan Tsvangirai's Movement for Democratic Change.

The South African leader has resisted Western calls to condemn Mugabe for holding a presidential election marred by violence and boycotted by Tsvangirai.

African leaders at a summit in Egypt issued a resolution calling for Mugabe's government and the MDC to negotiate a unity government, with Mbeki continuing in his role as mediator."


For mediator, read apologist. And still African leaders wonder why many in the west hold them in contempt, it's hard to imagine why. Kudos to Ian Khama though, his standing at home will be elevated even higher now. :rolleyes:

I wonder, were an EU member state to behave like Zimbabwe, what the reaction of other EU members (and the US) would be - more than a slap on the wrist and ineffectual hand wringing I'd imagine.
 

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Serbia?

Closest I can think of.

Well the Balkans have been a volatile area for ... forever, but Serbia could fit the bill in terms of repression of ethnic and political groups, abuse of and disregard for basic human rights and democratic process.

I really hate wishing people ill, but I believe the wrong man died today.
 

Drifterwood

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I honestly don't know what to think about all this D.

I think that I have always supported independence, but it all too often seems the case that a Mugabe is waiting in the shadows to corrupt this ideal and the trust and hopes of their people. I don't follow African politics that closely, but I have been to enough countries to get the picture. I was amazed when Moi stepped aside, but it seems that Mugabe's legacy will hurt his country for at least another generation, and for what? the greed and power thirst of a small "elite".
 

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I honestly don't know what to think about all this D.

I think that I have always supported independence, but it all too often seems the case that a Mugabe is waiting in the shadows to corrupt this ideal and the trust and hopes of their people. I don't follow African politics that closely, but I have been to enough countries to get the picture. I was amazed when Moi stepped aside, but it seems that Mugabe's legacy will hurt his country for at least another generation, and for what? the greed and power thirst of a small "elite".

I'm somewhat of two minds myself about this (only not really); I agree with you on the independence angle, and a regime change imposed from outside would likley be a stop gap measure at best, however appealing it may appear in the short term.

Any lasting solution must come from within Zimbabwe, although a poke with a sharp stick from SA or the AU as an incentive wouldn't go amiss. Once it happens, support will be abundant, and justified. I want Mugabe removed, but the Zimbawean people must take ownership of that process, a failure there (or foreign intervention) is likely to simply store up trouble for the future, and the risk of political recidivism.

African politics is at once fascinating, infuriating, capricious and predictable and too often depressing - but to me at least, never boring. The short term thinking of post colonial administrations (and their leaders) is a common theme throughout Africa. There are exceptions of course, but they're political equivalent of hen's teeth.

The reasons for this (some of which I touched on already), generally run along broadly defined and predictable paths. While I don't sympathise with many of the more dubious actions taken by leaders of many African nations, I can understand the factors and practical necessities that led to many of them. Aside from human factors, others - primarily environmental and geographic have also precipitated many disastous events.

Finally, I (or rather CNN I believe) was somewhat premature in announcing Levy's death; shortly after posting the link I received an SMS from Zed informing me that he was in fact still drawing breath. I meant to correct this sooner.
 

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I... it seems that Mugabe's legacy will hurt his country for at least another generation, and for what? the greed and power thirst of a small "elite".

New inflation figures were announced recently, estimated official annual % rate is now 2.2 Million and 1 US$ will (as I write this) buy over 100 Billion Zim Dollars on the street. The last time I read about figures like that was in respect of Germany between the wars - where the rate was (if I recall correctly) at one time around 1 Trillion marks to 1 US$.

In the face of such financial insanity it's hard to grasp such things as buying food or clothing when a newspaper costs $10 Billion and farm workers 'earn' around 30 million, factory workers around 300 million - basically a few cents per month. These are the last figures I have.

This photo brings back some memories ...

Mugabe out of Monopoly money

In an ironic twist, the company supplying paper for printing banknotes pulled out of its relationship with Zimbabwe and paper on which to print bills has all but be exhausted. Fidelity has cut back on production by two thirds. This means very soon, once supplies finally run out - the army and those propping Mugabe up may not get paid. It will be 'interesting' to see how loyal they turn out to be when/if that happens.
 
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SteveHd

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I can't fathom 2,200,000% inflation! That's over 6,000% PER DAY. I simply can't get a mental grip on that.

Unfortunately, I foresee Mugabe staying in power for a while longer, maybe years. He runs a rather tight police state. I read that he and his minions studied methods used by N. Korea and USSR to refine what works and what doesn't. I'm confident he and his thugs can keep the people scared of them.. They know what works.
 

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I'm somewhat of two minds myself about this (only not really); I agree with you on the independence angle, and a regime change imposed from outside would likley be a stop gap measure at best, however appealing it may appear in the short term.

Any lasting solution must come from within Zimbabwe, although a poke with a sharp stick from SA or the AU as an incentive wouldn't go amiss. Once it happens, support will be abundant, and justified. I want Mugabe removed, but the Zimbawean people must take ownership of that process, a failure there (or foreign intervention) is likely to simply store up trouble for the future, and the risk of political recidivism.

African politics is at once fascinating, infuriating, capricious and predictable and too often depressing - but to me at least, never boring. The short term thinking of post colonial administrations (and their leaders) is a common theme throughout Africa. There are exceptions of course, but they're political equivalent of hen's teeth.

The reasons for this (some of which I touched on already), generally run along broadly defined and predictable paths. While I don't sympathise with many of the more dubious actions taken by leaders of many African nations, I can understand the factors and practical necessities that led to many of them. Aside from human factors, others - primarily environmental and geographic have also precipitated many disastous events.

Finally, I (or rather CNN I believe) was somewhat premature in announcing Levy's death; shortly after posting the link I received an SMS from Zed informing me that he was in fact still drawing breath. I meant to correct this sooner.

I'm not of two minds about it. I've posted here before about the Mugabe regime and imo despotism is despotism whether it is inflicted upon a people under the guise of "independence" or not.

Of what value or benefit is liberation from "colonial influence" if your "liberator" engages in genocide and terror against his own people?

And the Q of E just recently got around to stripping him of his "knighthood"? Gee, you think??

Too fucking little...too late.
 

ManlyBanisters

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I hadn't been paying much attention to this situation and then I read this:

In Zimbabwe, President Robert Mugabe and opposition leader Morgan Tsvangirai have agreed on a power-sharing deal to end the country's political crisis.

South Africa's president, Thabo Mbeki, who has been chairing the power-sharing talks, says an agreement will be formally signed on Monday, when power-sharing arrangements will also be unveiled.

An MDC member of parliament who has been involved in the negotiations, Elphas Moknoweshuro, says Mr Mugabe will remain president.

"Mr Mugabe continues to retain the position of president, Mr Tsvangirai becomes the prime minister, the new prime minister," he said.

"They share executive powers among them."

I'd love to get a bit more info on this and how it is going to work - none of the stories I have seen so far have much detail on the way things will work.

The key stumbling block has been how the two rivals would divide responsibilities and who would have the most authority.
Tsvangirai has said he should be head of government and preside over Cabinet meetings, while Mugabe should be relegated to a ceremonial position. But Mugabe had shown little willingness to give up much of the power he has held since independence from Britain in 1980.


I can see that being a real issue - getting Mugabe to step back and let Tsvangirai do his job, make changes. My initial reaction is this is the current best realistic solution, a good start to phasing Mugabe out. I hope it works out that way.

I haven't seen dong20 post for a couple of weeks - I'd love his insight on this.

(I expect this'll get moved to the politics section now...)