Would You Rather Be Married or Happy?

Would you rather be married or happy?

  • I prefer to be married.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • I prefer to be happy.

    Votes: 32 42.1%
  • Why can't I be both married and happy?

    Votes: 43 56.6%
  • How can I be happy with just one person?

    Votes: 4 5.3%
  • It's not about the marriage, it's about the wedding.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Soulmates are a crock, love doesn't exist.

    Votes: 4 5.3%

  • Total voters
    76
  • Poll closed .

Bbucko

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My last relationship, which involved a commitment ceremony, was four years of great and another five of dreadful, with a very sharp downward slide.

Nothing, I repeat, nothing is worse than being trapped in a failed relationship.
 

whatireallywant

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I've been married twice and discovered that happiness is the result of finding my own rhythm in life. American women are often deluded into thinking that finding the right man will solve all their problems and give them what they need. Danish women obviously understand that relationships are desirable, healthy and good when they're optional and not a requirement by society for them to be satisfied with their lives. They also bring much more to the relationship table when they're independent and aren't relying on someone else for financial gain. It's a relief to a partner when they know you're not in the relationship to bleed them dry financially but to offer your own gifts and create a sustainable foundation.

I've had the carrot dangled in front of me. It doesn't look so good when it's not a result of my own efforts.

This is a BIG problem with women who are raised with rigid gender roles. It isn't as much a problem with me because I was a tomboy from age two. :biggrin1: Although I think I'd like to be married someday (I still say "someday" even though I'm 46!), I don't require it. I know from my financial roller coaster though that I DO require a certain income level to be happy. I hate being poor!!! I also require something of a social life, although with my shyness and the fact that my views are unconventional for everywhere I've lived have adversely affected that. I do like having a man for companionship and sex though. Of course I want the sex! But I also want the companionship. I like having someone I'm comfortable with for things like festivals that I like to go to, and I love to travel but I don't want to travel alone, and don't really want to travel with a group of people I don't know all that well - for all I know they could start talking politics and bashing my views or something, or start getting all preachy and stuff. Or, even something as simple as if we go to a music festival, complaining about the music!

And I'm not a woman who spent time since childhood fantasizing about her wedding. I've never really thought about it except for that if I get married, I want the song "On the Wings of Love" by Jeffrey Osborne sung at my wedding (and possibly also "We're In This Love Together" by Al Jarreau as well.) That's the full extent of my "thinking about my wedding". Now the HONEYMOON... that's a different story! :biggrin1: (especially when I was, sadly, a kind of fundy and didn't believe in premarital sex - that sure changed later in life! :biggrin1: But back then in my fundy days I was always daydreaming about the honeymoon, because it was about the only way I could morally, at the time, justify having sexual fantasies! Again, I sure changed since then!)

I've always said that two halves cannot make a whole. In the sense of I need to complete myself and make myself happy...and you need to complete yourself and make yourself happy, in order for our marriage to be complete and happy.

I married my wife because I wanted to add to her happiness and it continues to be the motivation behind my decision to share each and every new day with her. She most certainly adds to mine. I love being married because I love trying to come up with new ways to add to her happiness.

That's the best way to be. Unfortunately, traditional notions of womanhood keep women from completing themselves. That's why we need to dump that whole idea (and traditional manhood too). There's nothing inherently wrong with most traditionally female, or traditionally male, interests, it's just when women are forced to be subordinate, or men are forced to be macho and all, that there are problems. Ideally, we would all complete ourselves, and feel free to pursue our true interests in whatever combinations of gender traditionality or neutrality they are.
 

biguy2738

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That's the best way to be. Unfortunately, traditional notions of womanhood keep women from completing themselves. That's why we need to dump that whole idea (and traditional manhood too). There's nothing inherently wrong with most traditionally female, or traditionally male, interests, it's just when women are forced to be subordinate, or men are forced to be macho and all, that there are problems. Ideally, we would all complete ourselves, and feel free to pursue our true interests in whatever combinations of gender traditionality or neutrality they are.
Believe it or not, but my approach to wifey led to a lot of problems in our relationship. Out of our being together for just over a decade, I'd say that we spent 6 of those years fighting like cats and dogs...and it almost led to us getting divorced on more than one occasion.

She grew up in a rural part of our country and what made things worse, is the fact that she comes from a very traditional Portuguese family; one with the mindset of "a woman is supposed to be barefoot, pregnant and in the kitchen". Her father wanted to take her out of school when she turned 14 and put her to work in the family business because "why does a woman need to be educated?" ...so that ought to give you an idea.

I grew up to the other extreme where I had a single mother and sisters. My being male meant nothing to her, so I had to cook and clean...and even *ahem* sew and knit along with my sisters. Mom was not into stereotypes and she wanted us to be self sufficient.

It took a looooot of adjusting (and fights) when we first moved in together. She took insult when I help out with the household chores because it made her feel as if I didn't believe that she could do a proper job. Her running rings around me led to me constantly telling her that I have a mother, she's still alive and she knows that I'm big, old and ugly enough to take care of myself.

She sat around waiting for me. She never expressed her thoughts and opinions; confrontations were always one-sided and much as she'd agree with me and tell me that I'm right, I'd have to deal with "fuck you" looks from her. I was the beginning and end of all to her life. I told her over and over again that if I needed someone to clean up after me and serve me hand and foot, I could hire a maid. She was reminded that I couldn't love a blank. Oy vei, I could make a list but I am loathe to bore you stiff LOL. In short, I tried to show her that she couldn't afford to make her world revolve around me. Life is unpredictable. I could be run over by a bus at anytime...and where would it leave her? Helpless because she'd be unable to think for herself and live her life independently. Worst of all, in the midst of her grief, she'd be confronted with "Who am I?" It was something that I couldn't allow.

I was met with constant resistance because being a mindless cleaner upper was all that she knew...and having to dig down deep to find herself and what she stood for, required hard work and pain.

The irony is that, to a large degree, my realisation that I'm bi helped save our marriage. The fact that I was unawares about it meant that I had the rug pulled right out from under me. In light of my lack of awareness, I was forced to re-evaluate everything about me. Were there other things about me that I wasn't aware of? How much of my sense of self was real? Somehow, my grappling with the "Who am I?" question compelled her to follow suit. The more that she came to know herself, the more that she realised that she'd cheated herself out of "living" time...because she wasn't living, she'd only existed.

The rest, as they say, is history. :tongue:
 

whatireallywant

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Believe it or not, but my approach to wifey led to a lot of problems in our relationship. Out of our being together for just over a decade, I'd say that we spent 6 of those years fighting like cats and dogs...and it almost led to us getting divorced on more than one occasion.

She grew up in a rural part of our country and what made things worse, is the fact that she comes from a very traditional Portuguese family; one with the mindset of "a woman is supposed to be barefoot, pregnant and in the kitchen". Her father wanted to take her out of school when she turned 14 and put her to work in the family business because "why does a woman need to be educated?" ...so that ought to give you an idea.

I grew up to the other extreme where I had a single mother and sisters. My being male meant nothing to her, so I had to cook and clean...and even *ahem* sew and knit along with my sisters. Mom was not into stereotypes and she wanted us to be self sufficient.

It took a looooot of adjusting (and fights) when we first moved in together. She took insult when I help out with the household chores because it made her feel as if I didn't believe that she could do a proper job. Her running rings around me led to me constantly telling her that I have a mother, she's still alive and she knows that I'm big, old and ugly enough to take care of myself.

She sat around waiting for me. She never expressed her thoughts and opinions; confrontations were always one-sided and much as she'd agree with me and tell me that I'm right, I'd have to deal with "fuck you" looks from her. I was the beginning and end of all to her life. I told her over and over again that if I needed someone to clean up after me and serve me hand and foot, I could hire a maid. She was reminded that I couldn't love a blank. Oy vei, I could make a list but I am loathe to bore you stiff LOL. In short, I tried to show her that she couldn't afford to make her world revolve around me. Life is unpredictable. I could be run over by a bus at anytime...and where would it leave her? Helpless because she'd be unable to think for herself and live her life independently. Worst of all, in the midst of her grief, she'd be confronted with "Who am I?" It was something that I couldn't allow.

I was met with constant resistance because being a mindless cleaner upper was all that she knew...and having to dig down deep to find herself and what she stood for, required hard work and pain.

The irony is that, to a large degree, my realisation that I'm bi helped save our marriage. The fact that I was unawares about it meant that I had the rug pulled right out from under me. In light of my lack of awareness, I was forced to re-evaluate everything about me. Were there other things about me that I wasn't aware of? How much of my sense of self was real? Somehow, my grappling with the "Who am I?" question compelled her to follow suit. The more that she came to know herself, the more that she realised that she'd cheated herself out of "living" time...because she wasn't living, she'd only existed.

The rest, as they say, is history. :tongue:

I grew up in a rural area too. And while my parents were fairly cool about my being nontradtional (although they fit the traditional roles themselves), my extended family/relatives (most of whom lived in the same area) and other people in the community were NOT cool with people who were nontraditonal for their gender (that's why I'm so messed up to this day!) Oddly enough, the ways in which I am different from the people I grew up around, are my STRENGTHS! I'm willing (well, not just willing, I pretty much HAVE to!) to think outside the box, and growing up I was rough and tumble (not in a mean way just very active) whereas the other girls were sedentary even in elementary school :eek: Unfortunately, I later became a couch potato, partly to try to fit in, and all it did was made me gain a bunch of weight and get out of shape. :mad: My way as a kid was much healthier than their way... (If I'd stayed active, and they stayed sedentary, chances are they'd all be obese and out of shape, and I'd be fit and healthy!)

And while I do think people should have the choice to stay home with the kids if they want (men too), and if it is economically feasable for them to do so, I don't think their whole lives should revolve around doing for others at the expense of themselves. They need skills besides those that can get them by economically in case something happens to their partner, and need to have at least the means to be self sufficient if the need should arise.
 

biguy2738

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I grew up in a rural area too. And while my parents were fairly cool about my being nontradtional (although they fit the traditional roles themselves), my extended family/relatives (most of whom lived in the same area) and other people in the community were NOT cool with people who were nontraditonal for their gender (that's why I'm so messed up to this day!) Oddly enough, the ways in which I am different from the people I grew up around, are my STRENGTHS! I'm willing (well, not just willing, I pretty much HAVE to!) to think outside the box, and growing up I was rough and tumble (not in a mean way just very active) whereas the other girls were sedentary even in elementary school :eek: Unfortunately, I later became a couch potato, partly to try to fit in, and all it did was made me gain a bunch of weight and get out of shape. :mad: My way as a kid was much healthier than their way... (If I'd stayed active, and they stayed sedentary, chances are they'd all be obese and out of shape, and I'd be fit and healthy!)

And while I do think people should have the choice to stay home with the kids if they want (men too), and if it is economically feasable for them to do so, I don't think their whole lives should revolve around doing for others at the expense of themselves. They need skills besides those that can get them by economically in case something happens to their partner, and need to have at least the means to be self sufficient if the need should arise.
I can soooo relate with what you're saying. :smile: I have a female friend and she's the closest female friend that I have. She's also the type who's is non traditional. She's the kind of person who I'd be loathe to piss off and meet in a dark alley cos she'd hit the living crap out of me. She isn't a walk over to any one. I appreciate her independence and the fact that she takes crap from no one. If something in her home breaks, she fixes it. If her car breaks down, she's tinkering under the hood of the car. I have the greatest of respect for her and I suspect that we're as close as we are because we have so much in common; because I'm also non traditional and I think that there aren't any gender barriers between us; that we don't relate with each other as a man and woman, but as human beings.

At the same time, I also know that she's had to pay a high price because of her "approach". She tends to be in relationships with men who prey on her...the kind who will date her until they've had their way with her and then disappear...while stringing her on for future booty calls. She makes it easy for them because of her independence; she doesn't expect to be called every day etc. And the good guys feel threatened by her, so they bolt. And in the midst of this, she's surrounded by people who frown because "women aren't supposed to be like that".

I can understand why you became a couch potato. Your spirit was being suffocated and the more that it died, the less reason that you had to live. I'm terribly sorry that you didn't have the freedom to be who you are and to live from your truth.

I also don't have an issue if peeps decide to stay at home and raise the kids. I think that it's wonderful that their children get to have a witness their lives and development, and that the parent is afforded that opportunity, because life is just sooo short. My only issue with it is that it comes from the wrong place and it eventually leads to the person's role becoming the person's identity. We all fall into that trap, but moreso when one is a stay at home parent...because that person is "locked away" from the outside world, meeting new people and being stimulated in new ways on a daily basis. All that's left is the role that the person plays until the person is reduced to that role. So for me, I think that it's important that in such instances, the stay at home parent makes it a priority to get "out there" and have some "me time" so that he/she can stay in contact with who he/she is.