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Would you step on the American flag?

Discussion in 'Funny Stuff: Jokes, Quizzes, Games & Pics' started by marleyisalegend, Oct 14, 2008.

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Would you step on the flag to sign the book?

  1. Yes, I would step on the flag and sign the book

    4 vote(s)
    33.3%
  2. No, I would not step on the flag and sign the book

    8 vote(s)
    66.7%
  1. marleyisalegend

    marleyisalegend Loved Member

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    http://www.tjcenter.org/ArtOnTrial/flag.html

    The idea of the showcase on the left side of the page of the above link is that you have to step on the American flag in order to sign the book. The "controversy" is that many people believe it's treasonous or disrespectful or un-American or un-patriotic to step on an American flag or even display it at the wrong angle. The idea is that some people believe it would be unpatriotic to sign the book.

    The flag in the pic is American but people from other countries can simply imagine the same scenario with their flag.
     
  2. ManlyBanisters

    ManlyBanisters Sexy Member

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    I don't know of many other countries that treat their flags with the same reverence that the USA does.

    I'd have no problem standing on an Irish flag. Wouldn't think twice about walking across one, standing on one - ditto the European flag. It is an image, an emblem - if it is a rug or part of a design on a floor I will treat it like any other part of the floor. When someone uses the tricolour as a rug I don't find it disrespectful.

    I get it that it is different for you guys. It isn't a sentiment that is universal though.
     
  3. marleyisalegend

    marleyisalegend Loved Member

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    Kudos to Manlybanisters for having some balls! Here's the way I feel about it. Americans seem to value clothe (that can be washed and dried) more than they value people. We WOULDN'T step on the flag but many of us would step on a homeless person to sign the book. I say this because many people step over homeless people on a daily basis and don't consider the lack of hospitality to be un-American but, oh no, you'd better not step on the flag.

    I think people refusing to sign the book is a picture-perfect representation of the backwards priotizing that happens everyday in American life.
     
  4. killerb

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    naw I wouldn't step on it or burn it or anything like that...

    although I have major problems with some of this country's policies & behavior from its inception to present day, it's still my home...
     
  5. ManlyBanisters

    ManlyBanisters Sexy Member

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    Dude - sorry to disagree - but I think if there was a person sitting in the same place as the flag in that picture people would be even less inclined to sign the book. Not because of any respect, you understand, but because they wouldn't want the proximity with a stranger.

    Me? I'd give him $5 to shuffle to the left a bit :wink:
     
  6. ManlyBanisters

    ManlyBanisters Sexy Member

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    Would you piss on it to put it out if it were on fire?
     
  7. marleyisalegend

    marleyisalegend Loved Member

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    Well burning wasn't really part of the equation. Don't you feel like it's just a piece of fabric? If you scuff it with your shoes, it can be washed and dried. If the stains can't be removed, there are tens of thousands more in circulation.

    Thanks for your honesty though.
     
  8. D_one and done

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    :lmao:
     
  9. No_Strings

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    Ditto. I find it bizarre.
    The only other countries I can think of who regard their national flag in such a manner are middle eastern.


    I see a flag as a symbol and nothing more, and wouldn't hesitate to walk on the St. George's Cross.

    Solely from a design point of view, most flags are hideous; the Stars and Stripes being a stunning example of this.
     
  10. marleyisalegend

    marleyisalegend Loved Member

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    LOL, I wasn't being literal, I didn't mean they'd actually step on a homeless person, just that a homeless person's life has less value than the American flag. Kudos to you though for your generocity.
     
  11. killerb

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    LOL - naw, I'd be too afraid of catching a spark in my pubes! :jumping38:
     
  12. killerb

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    let me clarify: true, a flag is a piece of fabric, however some pieces of fabric can be very important to some people...I only meant that I wouldn't go out of my way to step on it...but I'm also the guy who wouldn't walk across someone else's blanket that's laid out in the park or on the beach...
     
  13. B_Nick4444

    B_Nick4444 Banned

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    sign of disrespect

    like using the "N" word
     
  14. invisibleman

    invisibleman Cherished Member

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    Personally, I would never step on the American flag (or any other country's flag) like a floor mat. That is disrespectful. I would wear a shirt made from weathered American flags though. (I wouldn't wear socks, pants or underwear made from American flags.)
     
  15. D_alex8

    D_alex8 Member

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    Of course, context is everything. I couldn't personally get worked up in the least over something which, like this art project, is merely an academic exercise, deliberately questioning the veneration of the national flag as a kind of pseudo-religious icon. Only those who considered the student art project as symptomatic of a more widespread decline or perceived 'over-liberalisation' of academia and the arts would be likely to respond with the sheer degree of ferocity shown in this case.

    However, a symbol's potency is what you make of it, and flag-sullying (or symbol-sullying in general), when used as one of the tools in a wider context of indoctrination, can prove a reasonably sinister and effective weapon.

    When I was growing up in North Africa, it was a fairly regular event to have to step on the Israeli flag to get into the school building, or even to throw bottles of fake blood on it. In other words: if you wanted an education, you had to do it (under the watchful gaze of school monitors); if you didn't, you'd be ostracized or even outright punished. And all this within a context where Xeroxed images of corpses from Israeli attacks were constantly on display on school walls, and where the use of the word 'Israel' (as opposed to the sanctioned term, 'the Zionist Entity') out loud would be enough to get you expelled... and the flag-sullying obviously served as part of a larger purpose of intentionally radicalising the worldview of under-16s.

    But there's a world of difference between an art installation in Chicago which is intended to provoke discussion, and the deliberate manipulation of children's minds which is intended to plant the seeds of hatred.
     
  16. ManlyBanisters

    ManlyBanisters Sexy Member

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    Interesting perspective - but that is sullying another nation's flag - not your own. Therefore quite different, wouldn't you say.

    I have seen similar examples of defacing 'the other side's' flag in the 6 counties and the boarder counties of the Republic too.
     
  17. snobbes

    snobbes Sexy Member

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    In every single country in the world stepping on the flag is regarded as one of the most disrespectful acts you can do.
    In the pics I have to say that it looks like a carpet with made to look like a flag. Then Id regard it as a carpet not a flag. If its a flag I would say its unthinkable that anyone would even consider stepping on it. if not to provoke.
     
  18. No_Strings

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    Source?
     
  19. ManlyBanisters

    ManlyBanisters Sexy Member

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    Looks like No_Strings and I are extraterrestrials then - that probably won't come as a surprise to some... :alien: :rolleyes:

     
  20. No_Strings

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    What are you doing? John Lithgow will report us! :frown1:
     
  21. ManlyBanisters

    ManlyBanisters Sexy Member

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    I guess that makes me Sally.... hmm - I'm a bit short but everything else fits - So are you Harry or Tommy? (I want to say Tommy but there is something Harry-esque about you sometimes :biggrin1:)
     
  22. cockoloco

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    I don't get it either. Flags are not a big deal here in South America. I mean, there is certain respect towards the symbol, but not the object.

    Just as an example, whenever the national football (soccer) team plays, everyone will take flags to the stadium and only god knows how many times flags have gotten dirty, torn or wrinkled. It's just a symbolic object.
     
  23. D_alex8

    D_alex8 Member

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    Wel-l-l-llll, yes and no. :rolleyes: I'd say they were at least related phenomena, effectively flipsides of the same coin, indicating an overvalorisation of national symbols that stems from a lacking sense of a coherent self. My example is about asserting the 'self' through the rejection of 'others', while Marley's example is about the rejection of perceived 'others' from the body of the 'self'. Ultimately, my argument would be that both just reveal a conflicted, unstable sense of 'national identity' ('lacking self'), with national flags elevated beyond their usual status to cover over the cracks of that fragmentation and uncertainty.

    In other words: I'll go off to park my tooshie on my German flag beach towel at this overly-verbose juncture. :wink:
     
  24. snobbes

    snobbes Sexy Member

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    Just common knowledge about decency I guess.
     
  25. ManlyBanisters

    ManlyBanisters Sexy Member

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    Point taken - the same only different :biggrin1::wink:

    Pix pls!

    Well - it looks like just about everybody who is actually from another country disagrees with you. Oh and if you want an analysis of why you feel the way you do see the bit of alex8's post about 'unstable sense of 'national identity' ('lacking self'), with national flags elevated beyond their usual status to cover over the cracks of that fragmentation and uncertainty' because, IME and IMO it is a valid point :smile:
     
  26. snobbes

    snobbes Sexy Member

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    I only lived in the US , Sweden and Norway and in these countries stepping on the flag is inappropriate behavior ! A couple of years ago a Danish and a Norwegian newspaper published images of the prophet Muhammad, the reactions from some Islamic countries was to step on and burn the Danish and Norwegian flag in front of the embassies as a protest and insult.
     
  27. ManlyBanisters

    ManlyBanisters Sexy Member

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    Yes - as N_S commented, some citizens of certain Middle Eastern countries treat their flags with the same demented fervour we see in some of the US population. Also, alex8 pointed out that the feelings of lack of self that can often lead to this kind of misplaced reverence of symbols can also be expressed by taking the symbol(s) of another nation too seriously and attacking those (as 'other') in order to feel part of a cogent identity.

    IOW: Just because some zealots decide to trample the Danish flag it does not mean that the average Dane in the street was mortally offended by the behaviour.
     
  28. snobbes

    snobbes Sexy Member

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    mortally: maybe not . offended: oh, yes they were.
     
  29. cockoloco

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    I'm convinced that, if they were offended, it was because of the irrational attitude and actions taken, not because of the flags.

    I would of course be offended if someone insulted my country in such and aggressive and fanatical way. But my point is that the flag is really the tip of the iceberg. I can't (and surely don't want) to believe that they were offended for flag abuse, but for the irate attack (symbolic, but attack all the same) towards an entire society.
     
  30. Load Lichfield

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    You're taking this out of context..

    The Danes were offended because of the aggressive and threatening reaction of fundamentalists.. The burning of the Danish flag outside the embassy, combined with death threats toward the artist and associates of the original cartoons, does not in any way compare to what we are talking about here.

    Simply stepping on a flag - remember it's only a piece of coloured material, is an entirely non threatening act.

    Jumping up and down outside a nations embassy, chanting aggressively, burning that nations flag and threatening to kill compatriots of their nation, is just the tiniest bit more threatening don't you think?

    I'm with the 'Stobbes doesn't know what he's talking about' gang..

    I couldn't care less if someone wanted to step on, piss on or drive over my nation's flag. All it would do would be to show them up for the idiot that they were.

    There's so much irony in the passion people have for the 'sacredness' over their nation's flag, that they're prepared to act violently toward people from that very country, who don't act as they would prefer.

    The very thing they hold dear - lets call it Flagland, drives them to a state where they would threaten citizens of flagland.. Where's the logic in that?
     
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