Would you step on the American flag?

[ManlyBanisters]

What are you doing? John Lithgow will report us! :frown1:

I guess that makes me Sally.... hmm - I'm a bit short but everything else fits - So are you Harry or Tommy? (I want to say Tommy but there is something Harry-esque about you sometimes :biggrin1

 

[cockoloco]

Looks like No_Strings and I are extraterrestrials then - that probably won't come as a surprise to some... :alien:

I don't get it either. Flags are not a big deal here in South America. I mean, there is certain respect towards the symbol, but not the object.

Just as an example, whenever the national football (soccer) team plays, everyone will take flags to the stadium and only god knows how many times flags have gotten dirty, torn or wrinkled. It's just a symbolic object.

 

[D_alex8]

Interesting perspective - but that is sullying another nation's flag - not your own. Therefore quite different, wouldn't you say.

Wel-l-l-llll, yes and no. I'd say they were at least related phenomena, effectively flipsides of the same coin, indicating an overvalorisation of national symbols that stems from a lacking sense of a coherent self. My example is about asserting the 'self' through the rejection of 'others', while Marley's example is about the rejection of perceived 'others' from the body of the 'self'. Ultimately, my argument would be that both just reveal a conflicted, unstable sense of 'national identity' ('lacking self'), with national flags elevated beyond their usual status to cover over the cracks of that fragmentation and uncertainty.

In other words: I'll go off to park my tooshie on my German flag beach towel at this overly-verbose juncture. :wink:

 

[snobbes]

Quote:
Originally Posted by snobbes

In every single country in the world stepping on the flag is regarded as one of the most disrespectful acts you can do.

Source?

Just common knowledge about decency I guess.

 

[ManlyBanisters]

Wel-l-l-llll, yes and no. I'd say they were at least related phenomena, effectively flipsides of the same coin, indicating an overvalorisation of national symbols that stems from a lacking sense of a coherent self. My example is about asserting the 'self' through the rejection of 'others', while Marley's example is about the rejection of perceived 'others' from the body of the 'self'. Ultimately, my argument would be that both just reveal a conflicted, unstable sense of 'national identity' ('lacking self'), with national flags elevated beyond their usual status to cover over the cracks of that fragmentation and uncertainty.

Point taken - the same only different :biggrin1::wink:

In other words: I'll go off to park my tooshie on my German flag beach towel at this overly-verbose juncture. :wink:

Pix pls!

Just common knowledge about decency I guess.

Well - it looks like just about everybody who is actually from another country disagrees with you. Oh and if you want an analysis of why you feel the way you do see the bit of alex8's post about 'unstable sense of 'national identity' ('lacking self'), with national flags elevated beyond their usual status to cover over the cracks of that fragmentation and uncertainty' because, IME and IMO it is a valid point :smile:

 

[snobbes]

I only lived in the US , Sweden and Norway and in these countries stepping on the flag is inappropriate behavior ! A couple of years ago a Danish and a Norwegian newspaper published images of the prophet Muhammad, the reactions from some Islamic countries was to step on and burn the Danish and Norwegian flag in front of the embassies as a protest and insult.

 

[ManlyBanisters]

Yes - as N_S commented, some citizens of certain Middle Eastern countries treat their flags with the same demented fervour we see in some of the US population. Also, alex8 pointed out that the feelings of lack of self that can often lead to this kind of misplaced reverence of symbols can also be expressed by taking the symbol(s) of another nation too seriously and attacking those (as 'other') in order to feel part of a cogent identity.

IOW: Just because some zealots decide to trample the Danish flag it does not mean that the average Dane in the street was mortally offended by the behaviour.

 

[snobbes]

Just because some zealots decide to trample the Danish flag it does not mean that the average Dane in the street was mortally offended by the behaviour.

mortally: maybe not . offended: oh, yes they were.

 

[cockoloco]

mortally: maybe not . offended: oh, yes they were.

I'm convinced that, if they were offended, it was because of the irrational attitude and actions taken, not because of the flags.

I would of course be offended if someone insulted my country in such and aggressive and fanatical way. But my point is that the flag is really the tip of the iceberg. I can't (and surely don't want) to believe that they were offended for flag abuse, but for the irate attack (symbolic, but attack all the same) towards an entire society.

 

[Load Lichfield]

mortally: maybe not . offended: oh, yes they were.

You're taking this out of context..

The Danes were offended because of the aggressive and threatening reaction of fundamentalists.. The burning of the Danish flag outside the embassy, combined with death threats toward the artist and associates of the original cartoons, does not in any way compare to what we are talking about here.

Simply stepping on a flag - remember it's only a piece of coloured material, is an entirely non threatening act.

Jumping up and down outside a nations embassy, chanting aggressively, burning that nations flag and threatening to kill compatriots of their nation, is just the tiniest bit more threatening don't you think?

I'm with the 'Stobbes doesn't know what he's talking about' gang..

I couldn't care less if someone wanted to step on, piss on or drive over my nation's flag. All it would do would be to show them up for the idiot that they were.

There's so much irony in the passion people have for the 'sacredness' over their nation's flag, that they're prepared to act violently toward people from that very country, who don't act as they would prefer.

The very thing they hold dear - lets call it Flagland, drives them to a state where they would threaten citizens of flagland.. Where's the logic in that?

 

[B_Nick8]

Personally, I would never step on the American flag (or any other country's flag) like a floor mat. That is disrespectful. I would wear a shirt made from weathered American flags though. (I wouldn't wear socks, pants or underwear made from American flags.)

Now there's an interesting distinction. Shirt, not pants. And does it pertain only to fabric that was once literally a flag or to the pattern itself?

My mother and her husband, who could not be more rabid patriots, nonetheless have an American flag door mat on which everyone wipes their feet. That seems incongruous to me. They also fly a flag on the lawn in front of the harbor where it's most visible and when I mentioned that I was taught when I was a child at summer camp that it was supposed to come down at night out of respect, they replied, "That's too much trouble to do every day".

Perhaps meaning, like those rituals necessary to show respect, is made up of what's been assigned to it.