WW2 holocaust a myth?!

[D_Tully Tunnelrat]

If only it were true that Israel was the cause of all the strife in the Middle East, then Mahmoud's unspoken hatred of Jews and Israel might some twisted sense, but his level of denial with regard to the known history of horrors against humanity is consistent with his willingness to oppress and kill his own people for personal gain. Blind is blind.

Although it is little known, and virtually untaught in American, or most European history courses, the Japanese "migrated" over 30M Chinese from one part of their country to another in WWII. Millions who were "moved" were never heard from again. This is also true of some of the foreign nationals who were captured and placed into concentration camps in China after the invasion of Manchuria. Then there is the nasty history of the "comfort women," which is a form of torture as bad as all the others.

People are capable of unspeakable horrors; this is why one has to repeat the history of every genocide, and persecution again and again.

 

[mako shark]

She could write stories about her life that you won't find in any history books. Her house was occupied by American, Russian, and German forces during the war. I won't even say what the soldiers did to young girls but can use your imagination. She watched classmates/complete families disappear and never come back...and yes they were aware of what was going on... She was shot at during her escape to the West.

I am not sure what you mean though. Did she suffer the Nazi regime? Did she suffer the bombings (see what happened to Dresdesn...)? Was she aware of the concentration camps? Did she start living in the GDR and then left for the West?

 

[BobLeeSwagger]

It's dangerous to take the BBC at face value when it comes to Iran. People here are assuming he said that, without ever having seen the full quote. The word holocaust is outside of the quote marks in the article.

Don't make the mistake of assuming that the BBC is only quoting one statement by Iran's president. He has made multiple statements either stating or implying that the Holocaust didn't happen. He hosted a meeting of Holocaust deniers and promoted their views.

It's a mistake to assume that Ahmadinejad is crazy or doesn't know what he is saying. He knows exactly what he's claiming and he's catering to the populace. Holocaust denial and rumors of Jewish conspiracies are believed by many throughout the Middle East.

Imagine that you're one of hundreds of millions of people who live in the Arab world. Your countries control much of the world's long-term oil supply and you have one of the most popular religions in the world. And yet you feel like you're being tormented by a religion with a mere 15 million adherents worldwide, with half of those not even in Israel. Israel has repeatedly embarrassed Arab armies and their leaders seem powerless to put tiny Israel in its place. One can see why some people might try to explain this implausible scenario with tales of conspiracies and secret schemes to control the world. That's the only way so few people could hold back the faith that's destined to be on the right side come Judgment Day, right?

The reality, of course, is that the Arab world has never been united enough to defeat Israel on the battlefield. In fact, many Arab leaders are happy to distract their people with the plight of Palestine while doing nothing to actually help the Palestinians. Ahmadinejad is only the latest in a long line of such opportunists. He's no worse off by being considered crazy by the West; in fact, he's helped when western experts call him a liar because it often increases his standing.

There ARE many people in the Arab world who are embarrassed by him, but not enough of them feel like they can call him out. And there are many more people around the world who are tempted to believe it. Since such tales have been around since the days of The Protocols of the Elders of Zion, there probably will always be people who believe them.

We haven't prevented any holocausts. That's the sad truth. "Never again," has happened again and again and is still happening.

The single largest population of victims of genocide are the Ukrainians. From 1932-1933 they were systematically starved by Stalin resulting in the deaths of about 10,000,000 people.

Stalin would, via purges and mass execution, go on to slaughter about another 10,000,000 people throughout the Soviet Union. Since that's before the Shoah Holocaust, I'm not going to count that but it's worth noting because of its singular depravity.

• Bangladesh (1971) 500,000 to 3,000,000
• Timor (1975-1999) 200,000
• Cambodia (1975-1979) 2,000,000
• Guatemala (1981-1983) 200,000-250,000
• Bosnia (1992-1995) abt. 250,000
• Iraqi Kurdistan (1987-1988) 80,000-100,000
• Rwanda (1994) 800,000
• Sudan (2004-present) abt. 70,000

There are smaller genocides of various sorts, but these are the big ones. We, as a planet, have done a shitty job of upholding, "never again."

I'm always amazed how few people know that Stalin and Mao each had more of their own people killed outside of WWII than any leader - including themselves - in any war. As heinous as Hitler's crimes were, it still seems odd that he is considered the ultimate in evil instead.

 

[cdarro]

It's dangerous to take the BBC at face value when it comes to Iran. People here are assuming he said that, without ever having seen the full quote. The word holocaust is outside of the quote marks in the article.

The BBC is a far more accurate and objective news source than any other generally available TV/radio network in North America.

 

[B_New End]

The BBC is a far more accurate and objective news source than any other generally available TV/radio network in North America.

No, it really isn't. It was all on the WMD bandwagon like all the rest of the irresponsible reporters. It is as sensationalistic as it has ever been.

The reality, of course, is that the Arab world has never been united enough to defeat Israel on the battlefield.

Let's not forget $62.5 Billion* in foreign aid since the inception of Israel from the United States alone, as well as weapons technology.

And Israel is ruthless with the people in it's care, if they are not Israeli's. Both the peoples of the occupied territories, and the free, democratic republic of Lebanon have suffered greatly under merciless Israeli incursions. Furthermore, the communists suffered the greatest losses at the hands of Hitler. The communists got nothing but hostility from their former allies, whilst the Jews got the recognition of zionism as a legitimate movement. The Palestinians, who did nothing, and their arab neighbors who had to take the influx of immigrants, got a real bad deal too.

 

[vince]

Interesting that in the discussions of genocides that one of worst in history is often omitted. The near extermination of the natives of the Americas from 1492 until the massacure at Wounded Knee. Estimates of the number of deaths due to starvation, enslavement and outright killings range up to 100 million.

 

[B_New End]

Interesting that in the discussions of genocides that one of worst in history is often omitted. The near extermination of the natives of the Americas from 1492 until the massacure at Wounded Knee. Estimates of the number of deaths due to starvation, enslavement and outright killings range up to 100 million.

Not. America is land of the free, and all land except Florida didn't have indians.

Also, you are a good nation, as long as the civilians you kill in the millions are outside your borders. Most of the time the natives were killed in Territories, (much like Gaza), and the millions killed in Iraq and Afghanistan and Vietnam also do not count as any kind of evil, because they were outside the borders of the Untied States.

All you should care about, is how a nation treats its own citizens.

 

[D_Tim McGnaw]

We haven't prevented any holocausts. That's the sad truth. "Never again," has happened again and again and is still happening.

The single largest population of victims of genocide are the Ukrainians. From 1932-1933 they were systematically starved by Stalin resulting in the deaths of about 10,000,000 people.

Stalin would, via purges and mass execution, go on to slaughter about another 10,000,000 people throughout the Soviet Union. Since that's before the Shoah Holocaust, I'm not going to count that but it's worth noting because of its singular depravity.

• Bangladesh (1971) 500,000 to 3,000,000
• Timor (1975-1999) 200,000
• Cambodia (1975-1979) 2,000,000
• Guatemala (1981-1983) 200,000-250,000
• Bosnia (1992-1995) abt. 250,000
• Iraqi Kurdistan (1987-1988) 80,000-100,000
• Rwanda (1994) 800,000
• Sudan (2004-present) abt. 70,000

There are smaller genocides of various sorts, but these are the big ones. We, as a planet, have done a shitty job of upholding, "never again."

Technically, by which I mean legally, what happened in Cambodia was a Holocaust, but not a genocide, and I'm not sure the term Genocide strictly applies to what happened in Bangladesh and Guatamala either.

Sudan is a complicated one because there has been ethnic/religious strife there for a long time, and distinguishing between simple ethnic/religious warfare and actual genocide is difficult, Darfur is a crime against humanity but whether or not it's a Genocide is still disputed. Though naturally these quibbles do not detract from the terrifying scale of human tragedy involved in all the situations you have listed.

 

[cdarro]

No, it really isn't. It was all on the WMD bandwagon like all the rest of the irresponsible reporters. It is as sensationalistic as it has ever been.

Let's not forget $62.5 Billion* in foreign aid since the inception of Israel from the United States alone, as well as weapons technology.

And Israel is ruthless with the people in it's care, if they are not Israeli's. Both the peoples of the occupied territories, and the free, democratic republic of Lebanon have suffered greatly under merciless Israeli incursions. Furthermore, the communists suffered the greatest losses at the hands of Hitler. The communists got nothing but hostility from their former allies, whilst the Jews got the recognition of zionism as a legitimate movement. The Palestinians, who did nothing, and their arab neighbors who had to take the influx of immigrants, got a real bad deal too.

BBC World News reported what information it could gather with little or no editorial comment, unlike the polarized American media or the relatively timid Canadian media. Your ethnic and/or political prejudices are slanting your perceptions.

 

[cdarro]

Not. America is land of the free, and all land except Florida didn't have indians.

Also, you are a good nation, as long as the civilians you kill in the millions are outside your borders. Most of the time the natives were killed in Territories, (much like Gaza), and the millions killed in Iraq and Afghanistan and Vietnam also do not count as any kind of evil, because they were outside the borders of the Untied States.

All you should care about, is how a nation treats its own citizens.

Oh, this is great. No natives in North America except for Florida. Kill everyone you want, as long as they're not your own.

People like you are utterly hopeless.

 

[B_New End]

BBC World News reported what information it could gather with little or no editorial comment, unlike the polarized American media or the relatively timid Canadian media. Your ethnic and/or political prejudices are slanting your perceptions.

Your perceptions are slanting your views. There were plenty of people saying Saddam had no WMD's, and they were ignored. Totally ignored. If you were alive at the time, you would have noticed this. BBC is just like FOX and CNN and MSNBC and CNBC. They are all worthless cheerleaders of Israeli foreign policy, and Anglo-American foreign policy. They have been for decades.

You think that tye reported without editorial comment, but it is not what they were saying that ws improtant, or indicated slant, it is what they didn't say.

And they make a big deal about 70 riot deaths in Tehran, and act like it is the end of the world, yet Israel kills 2000 in Lebanon in 2008, and we hear hardly a peep from them.

The BBC is just another mainstream media news outlet.

 

[B_New End]

Oh, this is great. No natives in North America except for Florida. Kill everyone you want, as long as they're not your own.

People like you are utterly hopeless.

or terribly sarcastic

 

[cdarro]

Believe what you need to believe. You should hook up with Trinity, who posts elsewhere on this forum. You seem to have a lot in common.

 

[B_New End]

Believe what you need to believe. You should hook up with Trinity, who posts elsewhere on this forum. You seem to have a lot in common.

whatever dude. I have very, very little in common with Trinity.

 

[Flashy]

Your perceptions are slanting your views. There were plenty of people saying Saddam had no WMD's, and they were ignored. Totally ignored. If you were alive at the time, you would have noticed this. BBC is just like FOX and CNN and MSNBC and CNBC. They are all worthless cheerleaders of Israeli foreign policy, and Anglo-American foreign policy. They have been for decades.

You think that tye reported without editorial comment, but it is not what they were saying that ws improtant, or indicated slant, it is what they didn't say.

And they make a big deal about 70 riot deaths in Tehran, and act like it is the end of the world, yet Israel kills 2000 in Lebanon in 2008, and we hear hardly a peep from them.

The BBC is just another mainstream media news outlet.

the Lebanon Conflict was in 2006 genius.

 

[Flashy]

Not. America is land of the free, and all land except Florida didn't have indians.

Also, you are a good nation, as long as the civilians you kill in the millions are outside your borders. Most of the time the natives were killed in Territories, (much like Gaza), and the millions killed in Iraq and Afghanistan and Vietnam also do not count as any kind of evil, because they were outside the borders of the Untied States.

All you should care about, is how a nation treats its own citizens.

you have truly lost your mind...which is saying something.

all land except for Florida didn't have indians? you are a lunatic.

 

[eurotop40]

or terribly sarcastic

Your sarcasm was obviously not understood. Who would be so silly to seriously say what you said?

 

[mitchymo]

I am so glad i don't suffer from epilepsy, already got a headache from NewEnds avatar.

 

[Flashy]

No, it really isn't. It was all on the WMD bandwagon like all the rest of the irresponsible reporters. It is as sensationalistic as it has ever been.

Let's not forget $62.5 Billion* in foreign aid since the inception of Israel from the United States alone, as well as weapons technology.

And Israel is ruthless with the people in it's care, if they are not Israeli's. Both the peoples of the occupied territories, and the free, democratic republic of Lebanon have suffered greatly under merciless Israeli incursions. Furthermore, the communists suffered the greatest losses at the hands of Hitler. The communists got nothing but hostility from their former allies, whilst the Jews got the recognition of zionism as a legitimate movement. The Palestinians, who did nothing, and their arab neighbors who had to take the influx of immigrants, got a real bad deal too.

wrong...Israel has received roughly 100 billion in foreign aid since its inception.

funny, that you didn't mention that in the same period that ISrael has received all that foreign aid, the arab world has received plenty too.

In fact, up until 1971, the Arab States received three times as much aid then Israel.


funny also that you did not mention what the US has gotten in *RETURN* from Israel for that Foreign aid.

-such as

- a dedicated client state for weapons purchases, keeping americans at work...the majority of the military assistance must be spent in the United States.
- an invaluable source of intelligence and support in the middle east
- Israel made peace with Egypt at the behest of the USA, bringing Egypt out of the Soviet sphere of influence.
- invaluable support and technological expertise by the capture of soviet weapons technology and transfer to the US during the cold war.
- invaluable source of strategic and real world experience with US weapons systems in conflict, long before the US actually used them. feedback on the combat performance of the F15, F16 and Apache helicopters were invaluable.
and dozens of others far too numerous to name but that i have already published here.

typically stupid on your part.

 

[eurotop40]

I am so glad i don't suffer from epilepsy, already got a headache from NewEnds avatar.

LOL, me too!