Yet another shooting

Discussion in 'Politics' started by B_VinylBoy, Jan 18, 2011.

  1. B_VinylBoy

    B_VinylBoy New Member

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    At least three people have been shot at a high school in Gardena, California, Lt. Steve Prendergast of the Gardena Police Department said Tuesday. The conditions of the victims, who all appear to be students, are unknown. However, Robert Alaniz, a spokesman for the Los Angeles Unified School District, told CNN affiliate KCAL/KCBS that only two students were injured in the shooting. Alaniz told the affiliate that a student brought the gun to school in a backpack, and when the student dropped the backpack, the gun discharged and wounded two students.

    Police: At least three people shot in L.A.-area high school - CNN.com

    So can we talk about real gun control yet, or are we still playing the political blame game?
     
  2. SilverTrain

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    The usual argument is that possession of the gun actually made the possessor and those around him safer for his having the firearm. Always a tenuous argument, it breaks down completely in instances such as this.
     
  3. Speculator

    Speculator New Member

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    Quick, somebody blame the Teaparty!
     
  4. maxcok

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    Just another schoolday in the Land of the Free, and the Home of the Brave.

    Thank you NRA, Republican Party, Teabaggers, and all other Second Amendment Absolutists.
     
  5. B_VinylBoy

    B_VinylBoy New Member

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    The idea of more guns fuels the notion of fear & intimidation, being that if everyone was armed people would be forced to do what society (or the person in front of you) deems to be the right thing to do. Why anyone would want everyone else to live in a state of perpetual paranoia is beyond me.

    I don't believe for a second that people shouldn't have guns in this country, nor do I believe every gun owner to be paranoid. However, there needs to be stricter federal regulation to make sure these things don't get into the wrong hands. That could have prevented the Arizona shooting and this most recent one in Los Angeles.
     
  6. Charles Finn

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    guns will always be around however it is my choice not to own or carry one
     
  7. midlifebear

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    Charles Finn is welcome in my house.
     
  8. Countryguy63

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    My problem with blaming this on a lack of gun control is that we don't know how he got the gun. Did he buy it off the streets? Did he swipe it from his parents? He certainly didn't bring it to school "legally". Too many unanswered questions with this one :confused:
     
  9. helgaleena

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    In Wisconsin, lots of kids hunt and have guns in the trunks of their cars. No big deal. The big deal is all the stupid uneducated and unsafe gun use by idiots who think it's impressive to have one in their backpack or locker, which is against any school's rules. Those are the ones who get hurt and they are as hazardous as toddlers finding mommy's pistol under the pillow. Stupid.

    My kids aren't even allowed to have cell phones on them during school.
     
  10. witch

    witch Member

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  11. maxcok

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    I think the larger point is that this country is awash in firearms, and we also have the most permissive gun laws by far among advanced countries in the world. It's very easy to get your hands on a gun in the US, and state laws are a patchwork of inconsistencies. Even with the restrictions we have, there are loopholes you can drive a convoy of trucks loaded with Uzi's through (the "gun show" loophole for one). There is a direct correlation between the astronomical number of guns in this country, permissive laws, and the amount of gun violence that occurs. The statistics are staggering and sobering. Some highlights from a study that compared the US with 22 other high populous, high income countries. One can only logically presume the situation is much worse today, thanks to NRA hysteria and the relaxation of ownership, possession, and conceal and carry restrictions that have been quietly, systematically enacted in state legislatures across the country since this 2003 study - under direct pressure from the NRA.
    "The US homicide rates were 6.9 times higher than rates in the other high-income countries, driven by firearm homicide rates that were 19.5 times higher. For 15-year olds to 24-year olds, firearm homicide rates in the United States were 42.7 times higher than in the other countries. For US males, firearm homicide rates were 22.0 times higher, and for US females, firearm homicide rates were 11.4 times higher. The US firearm suicide rates were 5.8 times higher than in the other countries, though overall suicide rates were 30% lower. The US unintentional firearm deaths were 5.2 times higher than in the other countries. Among these 23 countries, 80% of all firearm deaths occurred in the United States, 86% of women killed by firearms were US women, and 87% of all children aged 0 to 14 killed by firearms were US children."

     
  12. B_talltpaguy

    B_talltpaguy New Member

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    Correctly blaming gun nuts who refuse to allow 5the nation to regulate weapons of death will suffice.
     
  13. D_stryhtfg

    D_stryhtfg New Member

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    Yeah...they're the reason the gun went off...despite none of them being there.
     
  14. B_VinylBoy

    B_VinylBoy New Member

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    That's not what he was implying or saying. Try again. :rolleyes:
     
  15. b.c.

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    No doubt I must have missed some in-joke or something, but perhaps you might explain why the fuck you have a picture of the President of the United States in what appears to be the sights of some gun??
     
    #15 b.c., Jan 18, 2011
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2011
  16. B_VinylBoy

    B_VinylBoy New Member

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    Apparently this was "supposed" to be in response to when I briefly had an avatar with Sarah Palin in crosshairs. I honestly think it's more of a tell than an off-color joke.
     
  17. maxcok

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    Maybe if they'd been in Tuscon, they could have taken out the shooter before he did so much damage, eh?

    You are either:

    a.) being disingenuous and willfully dense,

    b.) "mentally challenged",

    c.) or both.

    What I'd like to know from you, or from anyone who is opposed all sensible restrictions, is this: I've often heard the "reasoning" that allowing private citizens to carry concealed firearms will result in them being able to stop gun violence perpetrated by criminals and deranged individuals. I heard this echoed again today by Republicans and Teabaggers on the House floor when a Democratic Representative introduced a new (old) gun bill. So my question to you and your compadres is this:

    A.) Where were the good gun-toting citizen vigilantes in Tuscon when the shooting started, and why the heck were they not able to stop this massacre?

    Follow-up question:

    A US Representative introduced a bill today that would restrict the sale of ammo magazines that exceed ten rounds. (There was actually a law passed in '94 during the Clinton administration that did this, but it was allowed to expire in '04, along with other gun restrictions, under the Bush administration.) The bill currently has 19 sponsors, none of them Republican. The Arizona shooter had four magazines in his possession, two of them 30 rounders. His shooting spree ended only because he stopped to reload, and four brave unarmed citizens tackled him. At that point 6 were dead or dying, and 13 were wounded. Do the math.
    "The bill wouldn't prevent future mass shootings," said Charles Heller, co-founder and secretary of the Arizona Citizens Defense League, a gun-rights group. "A shooter could simply carry two guns and have the same number of rounds. The only way to prevent future mass shootings is to make sure more people are armed and trained to defend themselves," Heller said. He's proposing to open up state Department of Public Safety facilities to arm and train legislators and their staffs.
    B.) In light of the Arizona tragedy (and the math) would you support Representative McCarthy's bill to restrict the sale of high-load magazines? Or do you think it would be more effective if everybody just carried guns?



    Another follow-up: Under pressure from the NRA, state legislators passed a law in April 2010 that made Arizona one of the most permissive states in the nation for carrying firearms. Essentially, any citizen 21 and over can legally carry a concealed weapon virtually anywhere - without a permit and without even the eight hours of training in gun safety that was required before this legislation passed. Upon signing the bill, Republican Governor Jan Brewer declared, "I believe this legislation not only protects the Second Amendment rights of Arizona citizens, but restores those rights as well."

    C.) Do you believe, as Gov. Brewer does, that requiring people to have a permit and take an 8 hour safety class in order to carry a concealed weapon is an infringement of their Second Amendment rights?



    I'm interested to see how you respond to these questions. I challenge you to give direct serious answers in lieu of pithy remarks. Caveat: In this forum, unlike in the world of teevee talking heads or the right-wing radio echo chamber, you are liable to be challenged when you spout empty platitudes and mindless political talking points.
     
    #17 maxcok, Jan 19, 2011
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2011
  18. D_Rosalind Mussell

    D_Rosalind Mussell New Member

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    I'm with Countryguy here, where the hell did they get the gun? There are a lot of responsible gun owners out there that take every precautionary measure imaginable to ensure safety and and security. Those are the people you never hear about. You always hear about irresponsible shitheads that pick up a gun without really knowing anything except point and shoot. The unfortunate truth is there are too many careless gun owners that don't follow safety and security measures as well as they should.
     
  19. B_VinylBoy

    B_VinylBoy New Member

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    That is why we need stricter gun regulations. It's in no means an attempt to punish responsible gun owners nor an attempt to take everyone's gun away. I think most people do recognize that there are plenty of people who own firearms and use them properly. This is all about establishing additional provisions that could essentially prevent another tragedy in Arizona, or the recent school shooting in California.

    Case in point, if the Assault Weapons Ban didn't expire in 2004 there would have been a good chance that the amount of casualties in Arizona would have been lower. Loughner shot 31 rounds before trying to reload. It was only when he was trying to put in another clip that people were able to stop him. The bill that expired under the previous administration would have limited the number of shots per clip to ten. Considering that most shooters, including most trained cops, let off several shots with only a few of them actually hitting their target and knowing the history of events on the day Loughner shot and killed 6 people, it's pretty safe to say that the number of dead or injured people wouldn't have been as much.

    And here's another case in point. Let's look at how another country handles the issues of guns. In Canada, there are roughly 7 million guns in people's houses and about 11 million homes in the country. That's a rather high gun ownership ratio, yet they have less than a tenth of the same gun related violence. Their regulations are strict but pretty painless once you put it all together: Every gun has to be licensed and registered. Every gun owner has to undergo a safety course, followed by a month long waiting period where if you're currently or were married you would have to bring in some form of certified letter from your spouse endorsing your usage of it. Plus, they don't allow the selling of guns that can fire more than 10 rounds. It doesn't eliminate all of the gun violence, but it does prevent a lot of it from happening.

    Why can't we do this here in America? If gun regulation is wrong, then I want to know a real reason that is based on fact and not blinded ideology as to why something as simple as this (or a version of it) shouldn't be implemented in our country in order to ensure the safety of innocent people?
     
  20. seterwind

    seterwind New Member

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    To be fair the statistics of Canada are a bit off, there are only 1,831,327 gun licences issued in Canada, which is 5% of Canada's population, compared to an estimated 25% of the population of the U.S according to the NRA that has a gun of some sort, which is 85 million people with guns.

    Just to be fair, Canada has a rate of Accidental firearm deaths of 1 per 1,000,000 people annually. So roughly 33 people (Children and Adults included) die a year in Canada due to accidental use of firearms. Compared to the states which alone over 200 children die every year due to accidental fire arm misuse. Adding the adults it's quite staggering the amount of people who die due to clear misuse of a firearm.
     
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