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Discussion in 'Politics' started by HazelGod, Dec 3, 2008.
Are you limey lameasses really going to take this lying down?
You do know that this will mean more stop and search of people of ethnic origin and anybody who is caucasian I doubt will be stopped.
If someone came up to me on the street and demanded I gave them a form of ID I would tell them to fuck off. That's just crazy. This is just another step towards insanity and a badly veilled way of them being able to ask "terrorists" to prove who they are without feeling guilty.
I'm all for mandatory ID cards.
I agree, HG, you'd have to be a lameass to have a mandatory ID card system.
That's why we have opposed it and the control freaks don't like it.
This isn't news - in England at least it's been mooted here for a long while.
These powers were introduced into a number of local Council's "safer neighbourhoods" schemes under the guise of reducing 'anti-social behaviour'. Such schemes make extensive use of PCSOs and Specials, as well as a team of regular Police officers. They are however deemed 'voluntary partnerships' - except for many of those they 'target', of course.
Existing legislation permits stop and search for 'cause' - it has done for years but to nobody's surprise it is widely abused. This latest planned encroachment merely rubber stamps what is (to many), de facto existing practice. It harks back to the 'Sus' laws of the 70s and 80s - which themselves were, if I recall correctly, rooted in a vagrancy Act dating back to the early 1820s.
Sus laws were a disaster, and set back race (and Police) relations back years. While I hold the Police (and this Government) accountable for the abuse of such powers, ultimately the root cause is human predjudice - i.e us. Today, while we have replaced racial tension with terrorism as the primary motivator for enforcement, the underlying predjudice remains.
If such powers are (re)introduced, then like the flip flop fiasco that is a proposed mandatory ID card, it will achieve little or nothing positive, almost certainly quite the reverse. It almost certainly won't reduce or avert terrorism (as above, the current catalyst for such powers) other than through blind luck, hardly an effective strategy.
To quote Arnie
Valid point HG, but as Dong pointed out above, this has been in the pipeline for a long time. If it proves to be too controversial (surely), the democratic process works well in the UK, and it should be laid to rest.
It's rather like your 2001 Patriot Act in the US....seems like we are now treading the same path. Scary.
^Britain is following in America's footsteps? OMG it's the Apocalypse! Why would ANYONE think that ANYTHING America has done in the past century is a good idea?
I'm still trying to work out why a decision, I don't approve of, made by a government I didn't vote for makes me a stupid, slutty lameass. Confusing!
Does anyone else grip their sides in laughter when they read this thread title? It just tickles me.
Hey Marley, I'm not sure if that was a subtle dig, but read through my threads and you'll discover I'm very much pro-American (you've done a LOT of great things. You'd need a new thread!). Nonetheless, the 2001 Patriot Act was in my opinion another serious threat to civil liberty. I just hope that we live to see easier times.
I agree, I chose inefficient wording that implied more than what I meant. Obviously America isn't bad or I wouldn't have stayed here for 23 years. For example, I'm terribly relieved that Bush repealed that ban on HI+ foreigners, but even that was just the correction of yet another one of our mistakes.:wink:
I'm amazed that Bush repealed that act, Kudos! (Can't believe I just gave Bush a compliment!). Britain can hold it's own to a degree, but in an ever partioning world, we need you guys. Surely we need each other? My Grandad used to tell us that Americans are our brothers, that's how he felt after his experiences in WW2. Anyways...I ramble.....
I think the slutty part came from a newspaper article HG pointed out saying that we are the most promiscuous nation in the world!! As for stupid, don't worry, they took the Patriot Act lying down also, so we are both on the 'stupid lameass' train. :wink:
It's hard at first, but it gets easier when you realize he's not as bad as...uhh...Hitler or Dahmer or Satan. That whole "there's always somebody worse" mantra is Bush's saving grace cuz he pushes "worst" to the limit.
Honestly some Americans need to be pushed off a cliff. I was on another forum reading a thread that used all kinds of offensive terms ranting about the "Hindus" and "Apus" that work at call centers.
In typical American fashion, blame the brown people. They're upset at the people that do these jobs (most Americans would NOT be cursed at and threatened all day for no pay) but NO ONE complained about the company owners that sent the jobs over there. It was a disheartening reminder that divisions will always exist.
The biggist piss-take is, will be the full bio-metric info on a chip, sewen into UK Passports, to which some bright spark over in the EU, managed to forge very easaly, with the details of the king himself, Elvis!
The so called planned ID card system is not much different to the passport idea, but on a small plastic card, and again like the passport, is very hackable.
If the arses in goverment was to make manataroy this sort of system, then at least make one that is much tougher to hacking than the previousaly described.
Number of storys on this chip / ID Card system here: Search results for ?id card? ? The Register
Never mind the security. I was informed (I can't be 100% sure how reliably) that while a Passport is supposed to last 10 years and an ID card the same, the manufacturers of the chips would only offer a 6 month guarantee. Now, I wonder who will foot the bill for replacements...
Back in the context of this thread; one might reasonably assume that if a chip fails to read correctly on a 'stop' the hapless owner will be (depending no doubt to a significant degree on their ethnicity) assumed to be a terrorist/illegal or other type deemed 'undesirable' and hauled off for a ... robust talking to.
^LOL @ "robust talking to."
I will not carry one.