I've had enough of all the hate and nonstop bickering. Some of you worship politics more than any religious person worships their God. This place hasn't been fun in a long time. I'm gone. Knock yourselves out Phil and Midlifebear. Misquote all the infor you want too. Some day, someone else will get tired of it and expose the truth. I'm outta here. Bye Tardis and hockeyguy.
"You tell a lie enough times..."
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Phil Ayesho
Superior Member
Wrong.
Jesus is asked twice- First time says he is the son of man. Second time replies that his accuser has said it, not him... essentially denying that he EVER said such a thing.
First time his response was I am the son of man, but I shall sit on the right hand of God in the kingdom of heaven.
The right side being the place of the first son- some folks interpret this to be Jesus claiming to be the son of god.
But that is debunked by the fact that he OPENED with being the son of man.
He is saying he is a man, like you, but that he is spiritually like a son of God.
The important thing Christian miss is that this was the entire PROMISE of Christ's teaching... He said that ANYTHING he has done , YOU could do...
Well- if he's God, that's something you CAN'T do.
Whereas if he's just a man who has attained spiritual perfection like unto a son of god... that is something you CAN do....
Jesus was MADE the son of God by a Popular vote at the council of Nicea.
A LOT of original Christians OPPOSED the vote, specifically objecting that such a doctrine makes Christ's promise of the perfectibility of the human spirit a LIE.
As a result of this committee decision, Christians went from a group that STROVE to be SIN FREE... to a group that describes themselves as nothing BUT sinners, unable to find grace except thru forgiveness.
Phil Ayesho
Superior Member
You don't know me, Hootie.
I am not hate filled. I like most everybody. I like you.
I am sick of the lying, tho.
The political lying in particular.
Sorry if it pisses me off and makes me seem shrill.
I have had 12 years of FOX news propaganda and 12 years of multimillion dollar media orchestrating the polarization of American opinion.
That does make me angry.
As to religion- I was raised Catholic... and I have poured over every line of the bible- there is no quote from Jesus claiming to be the son of god... at least, not in the unaltered text from the Romans who assembled the book.
And What I see from the religious is the ideas and attitudes and certainty that is tearing apart the whole world with violence.
I have no problem with spirituality... but religion is not about spirituality... its about power, and clan, and in group/out group manipulations.
I think its a serious threat to humanity and to civilization...
time we grew out of it.
Please don't go... certainly not because of me.
If you would stay and prefer I go... I will trade you.
Say the word.
D_Tintagel_Demondong
Sexy Member
Kinda. The Jewish Elders reported to the Romans that Jesus claimed to be the Son of God. Under Roman law, you could only worship the Emporer, so he was punished by a common Roman military method: crucifiction.
We are strong and we are growing!
Thanks, SLB. I don't mind parents sending their kids to Sunday school and then letting them make an educated choice when they grow up. The Amish do something like this when kids turn 16. They leave the community and live in the 'regular' world for a while. After that, they can decide if they want to stay in the modern world, or go back home.
Thanks. I'll get it. Unfortunatly, I have about 5 books on my 'pending' shelf.
Harsh! I think that you both are a bit extreme in your rhetoric, but I'm inclined to agree with Phil. If you take a step back and see the devistation that relion has caused, I think you could be swayed to join our side; the dakr side.
Hootie,
I too have been struggling with this lately, some people here are just so hateful to those they don't agree with.It's either their point of view or you are sub human to them..
I've gotten very angry on this site and have lashed out at people when I should have just shut the computer off.I'm better than that.
Phil,you ARE the most hateful person on this site.To blame your lack of decency on Fox news is just one more symptom of what is lacking in your character.
I feel very sorry for what your wife must have to go through.Please don't reply because I won't see it or really care anyway.
THANK YOU everyone who made this site fun,I'm going to miss you.Too bad some people can manage to ruin it for others.
Bye ....................Mr Ed
Phil Ayesho
Superior Member
Wow- TWO people blaming me for leaving the site...
That's not good...
Mr Ed... sorry you seem to think that my unwillingness to allow right wing lies to stand unchallenged is indicative of being hateful. I had to see it as my duty to contest these slanders and fabrications as the election approached.
I really am not hateful.
Although some people insist on hating people that disagree with them... I can not return the disfavor.
As much as I think Star, for example, is mistaken and brainwashed in his thinking... I secretly kinda like him...
He ENDURES... and that I admire.
Your comment regarding FOX news tells me everything I need to know about your real motives.
But I will make you the same offer.
If I am the person making this site unlivable for You and Hootie... I will leave if you two will stay.
Again, let me know if this is amenable to you both.
The Romans don't condemmed Jesus to death because he claim to be the Son of God . The real reason was because he claimed to be the Messiah and the King of the Jews . Claiming to be King of the Jews was treason and was punished by cruxifiction . Jesus wasn't the only one . Many Messiahs were crucified during the roman times .
I'm wrong ? Let's see . In the Gospel of Mark Chapter 14 verse 61 and 62 says : The high priest asked him , Are the the Messiah , the Son of the blessed one ? JESUS SAID IM and you will see the Son Of Man at the right hand of power and coming with the clouds of heaven .
B_starinvestor
Experimental Member
Easy, easy. Phil Ayesho can't leave this site. I'll kill myself. His multi-page posts placate this topsy-turvy world for me and give me peace and happiness.
If Phil goes, I go.
If Phil goes, I go.
Phil Ayesho
Superior Member
Jesus said "IM"?
What, he TEXTED that in?
yeah... I'm wrong when I say that Christ only ever claimed to be the son of Man?
He says it in your quote.
Every chance he gets to claim being the son of God, he says the word MAN.
Let me put it this way... if everytime I asked a guy if he was the son of BOB... and every time I, or anyone else, asked him, he responded he was the son of Greg....
Well then I am making shit up to say he claimed to be the son of bob.
This is how it works.... Every poor deluded person who believes jesus is the son of God is NOT a Christian, because Jesus denied being the son of God.
They are a Paulines, because it was Paul who said he was the son of God.
So, if you believe what Paul says about Jesus over what Jesus said about Jesus, you got not right to call yourself a christian, because you are denying the the truth of the words of Christ.
But this is really all moot... and argument over the character of an imaginary friend....
Its ALL pure delusion.
Phil Ayesho
Superior Member
Did any of you actually watch this movie all the way through, or are we making assumptions off of a short, simple trailer? [Edit: some of you did. Apologies.]
Jesus fucking christ :tongue:
The whole gist of the film is the literalization of scripture. And the marginalization of homosexuals caused by it. And the fact that fundie exploitation of media to spread poison and hatred, using literal interpretation, causes a large chunk of our society to perpetuate that marginalization, to this day and likely well into the future.
The other side of this coin is freedom of speech and religious beliefs - but as a 40 year old closet case, hiding all this time due to that marginalization, I could give a fuckin rat's ass about the fundies having that right to continually force the idea that homosexuals are the scourge of the earth.
As was pointed out in the film, to propagate fear, the fear that fundie conservatives need to keep or sway those to "their side of the aisle", there must be an "other".
Conservatives, especially social and political conservatives, are now beginning to be marginalized, to be that "other" - hence starinvestor's entirely kneejerk reaction to the opening post.
And all of you bandying about scripture are missing what I'm thinking was Regulus' angle on posting this thread in the first place. What the underlying meaning of this movie was about. Taking the Bible literally.
The movie is up on youtube in sections. Here's a link to the first section, and the rest can be found in the "related vids" window. Go watch it, and steer this thread into a more logical discussion of the OP.
Thank you for the thread, Reg. The movie was certainly an eye opener here, and I'm disappointed in myself that I hadn't known of it earlier. Enough of an eye opener for me to get riled up and make a preachy post :tongue:
Jesus fucking christ :tongue:
The whole gist of the film is the literalization of scripture. And the marginalization of homosexuals caused by it. And the fact that fundie exploitation of media to spread poison and hatred, using literal interpretation, causes a large chunk of our society to perpetuate that marginalization, to this day and likely well into the future.
The other side of this coin is freedom of speech and religious beliefs - but as a 40 year old closet case, hiding all this time due to that marginalization, I could give a fuckin rat's ass about the fundies having that right to continually force the idea that homosexuals are the scourge of the earth.
As was pointed out in the film, to propagate fear, the fear that fundie conservatives need to keep or sway those to "their side of the aisle", there must be an "other".
Conservatives, especially social and political conservatives, are now beginning to be marginalized, to be that "other" - hence starinvestor's entirely kneejerk reaction to the opening post.
And all of you bandying about scripture are missing what I'm thinking was Regulus' angle on posting this thread in the first place. What the underlying meaning of this movie was about. Taking the Bible literally.
The movie is up on youtube in sections. Here's a link to the first section, and the rest can be found in the "related vids" window. Go watch it, and steer this thread into a more logical discussion of the OP.
Thank you for the thread, Reg. The movie was certainly an eye opener here, and I'm disappointed in myself that I hadn't known of it earlier. Enough of an eye opener for me to get riled up and make a preachy post :tongue:
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Phil Ayesho
Superior Member
Well put and I agree.
In pointing out the hypocrisy of Christian claims that Jesus claimed divinity, and the fact that the teachings being followed are those of Paul, not Jesus... I mean to point out how even the literalists are not, in fact, taking the bible literally.
They are laying claim to literal inerrancy... but are in fact NOT accepting the literal meaning expressed when and where it does not jibe with their prejudices or their true agenda.
The best weapon you can use in arguing against the literalists is to prove to them that they are NOT, in fact, literalists.
Just small minded and small hearted bigots combing thru a book of 3rd century barbarism looking for ways to justify their hatred and ostricization of others.
Phil Ayesho
Superior Member
Sorry- did not to mean to imply that you said you were... I was responding to the argument as a defense of Christian CLAIMS that he did say it, when, in fact, he bent over backward to avoid using those words.
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