Your Choice For President of the U.S. - 2004

[jay_too]

hey notso,

yep, i have decided that clinton was a good president. it has been posts like yours that have pushed me over the edge. of course, my evaluation may be biased by my years (23) since i remember only clinton and dubya...well maybe, a little of george the first. compared to bush...bill is a hands-down winner compared to our verbally (dare i say, mentally) challenged president.

much has been said about clinton's lapses in fidelity...largely by congressional republicans and spin-masters. at least, bill and hillary have tried to work through their differences and salvage a marriage...the sanctity of marriage is a cornerstone of many religious conservatives except when an enemy is involved.

it has been years since i have heard criticism of newt gingrich and his extra-marital escapades....culminating in his telling his wife of many years that he wanted a divorce; oh yeah, she was in the hospital recovering from an operation to remove cancer....wadda guy...wadda sense of timing...wadda sense of conservative republican ethics/family values. so what's he doin' today? on the public dole again advising rummy on making war....yep, he was one who saw weapons of mass destruction when the intelligence agencies did not. where are the wmd now? not to worry, they are out there....somewhere maybe...just a few more preemptive strikes and we will find them...AND oh yeah, we will have created the american empire.

i am against an american empire. i believe that peoples across the globe have the right/responsibility to self-determination...a core american belief that goes back to colonial times.

jay

 

[jay_too]

notso..

dude, they did not teach your brand of reality in my econ courses. there are several ways of looking at economic impacts of tax cuts. one is to compare the federal deficits before and after the tax cuts pushed through by reagan: reality is that the tax cuts did not create the increase in government revenues from economic expansion...they in fact, resulted in the largest deficits in american history.

my econ prof thought that the prosperity of the reagan years was the related to the pain and suffering of the american workers as jobs moved overseas in the 1970s, the loss of corporate pensions, and the increase in productivity related to business adoption of the pc. these secular changes which created the prosperity of the 1980s were under way before and during the reagan years. prosperity would have occurred with or without tax cuts.

to date the bush tax cuts have produced only one-half the number of jobs predicted by omb in their lobbying support. oh yeah, the federal debt is increasing. with unemployment and the federal and state debt increasing, i can hardly call this an INSPIRED economic policy.

jay

 

[13788]

Longhornjok: I don't know how the quoting thing works on here so I am gonna wing it and go manual here...

Re: notsoyoungteen's post earlier here:

"Ok people. Time to set the record straight. I absolutely HATE it when people say stupid things like, "What has Bush done for the economy?" This has to be the most ignorant statement EVER. Except, of course, for something along the lines of, "Clinton was a good president."

Ok, so set the record straight. By the way, doing that doesn't mean offering your own opinion as fact. Please list the things Prez Bush has done for the economy... I'll wait *whistles*

"Our economy went down the shitter for two reasons: 1. The shitty mess Clinton left us with when he left office."

Ok, never mind setting the record straight on your first point. Please explain this one. What was the shitty mess Clinton left in terms of the economy? Any actual statistics or factual information you can provide would be the goal here.

"2. 9/11. The terrorist attack on 9/11/01 made the entire nation scared to go on flights, eat out, and just about everything else they used to do. There is nothing anyone could do to get people to get back on airplanes and the such. Oh, wait, there is one thing... get rid of the terrorists! Which just happens to be exactly what Bush is trying to do!"

Ok, finally we agree on something. Well, part of something. 9/11 did have a tremendous negative impact on our nation and it's economy. I also really believe Prez Bush matured a lot as a leader because of that attack and sort of "got his sea legs" in that regard, if you will. However, as much as I believe the perps should be caught and brought to trial, I don't believe there is actually such a thing as "getting rid of terrorism."  It's a nice idea, though.

"He's also attempted to jump start the economy with his recent tax cut."

You mean, THIS tax cut, or the OTHER tax cut he already pushed through? How long would you say it will take for the first one to have that positive effect we were told it would have? Since you obviously support the most recent tax cut, too, do you think say, hmmmm, the Cheneys, who declared over $4 million in taxable income in 2001 (www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/04/20020415-7.html) have been waiting for this tax cut so they can buy that new refrigerator or 2nd car to help jumpstart the economy?

"Honestly, I don't see anything this president has done wrong. Anyone dare to prove me wrong?"

Uhhh, since this is an opinion and not a fact, it is not verifiable either way. Here's my question for the Bushies: since you say the sucky economy is Clinton's fault, if was sailing along right now, would you give Clinton props or at that point would it suddenly be all about your man W? That's actually a rhetorical question; I'm pretty sure I already know the answer.  :

 

[13788]

Dag: i picked Carol Moseley Braun (D)

why? i probably should have selected no one because, honestly i have no clue right now! this is going to sound really stupid but, i picked Carol in hopes he or she is a girl. a girl Pres! true!

Cheers - dag

 

[13788]

throb919: Dag, please say you're kidding...you're way too smart for that...! ;-)

Carol Moseley Braun is the former United States Senator from Illinois (y'know--almost your next door neighbor), an African-American woman. She became my de facto Senator when our own Jesse Helms, after a dispute with her about continued federal funding for some UDC (United Daughters of the Confederacy) issue, whistled (or hummed) "Dixie" when the two Senators were alone in a Senate elevator. (Not that I needed an additional reason to be embarrassed by Jesse Helms...)

 

[13788]

Dag: [quote author=throb919 link=board=99;num=1051303715;start=40#44 date=07/05/03 at 09:42:14]Dag, please say you're kidding...you're way too smart for that...!  ;-)

Carol Moseley Braun is the former United States Senator from Illinois (y'know--almost your next door neighbor), an African-American woman. She became my de facto Senator when our own Jesse Helms, after a dispute with her about continued federal funding for some UDC (United Daughters of the Confederacy) issue, whistled (or hummed) "Dixie" when the two Senators were alone in a Senate elevator. (Not that I needed an additional reason to be embarrassed by Jesse Helms...)[/quote]



Sorry mate, i was having a senior moment at 38 yo. ...and i wasn't being 100% serious.

 

[13788]

throb919: Dag, dude, not-so-old-buddy--I was kidding. Sorry if that came across badly or harshly. I realize nuance is hard to convey in typing. I knew you were not "100% serious" with the "girl Pres" line (although I, too, think it'll be great to have a woman President one day--and we will). Just wanted to share the Jesse Helms story in regards to Carol Moseley Braun.

Would slip into a voting booth with you any day...!

 

[13788]

hawl: John Kerry is the one candidate that sleazy Bush family is afraid of, because he is like George's cooler brother he can't top in any known area (he's even fellow ex-Skull and Bones, if the final election is between them watch for a conspiracy theory field day). He's a decorated veteran with unquestioned foreign policy street cred to this day who was also a major player in Vietnam Veterans Against the War, he's pro-choice and is never seen with gerbil-endowed, ban-the-bong fundamentalist Baptist types (for you youngsters, George's grandfather was an Episcopalian. When was the last time you saw a family switch faiths so drastically without an ulterior agenda? The social gulf alone between the faiths is enormous.), he can pronounce multisyllabic words like "nuclear", he's more or less Jewish through his father (so his Presidency would be a multi-culti first if you care about that sort of thing), and a direct descendant of John Winthrop (see the "City On A Hill" speech Reagan piggy-backed) through his mother (which should frustrate the anti-Semites). Through his wife he is at least as insulated as Bush from the financial temptations people worried about with the Clintons. Bush and the conservative right hate this board and every poster or lurker, whether male, female, straight, or gay. Haven't you people heard of John Ashcroft or Clarence Thomas?

 

[13788]

Sam1070: John Kerry is Roman Catholic.

 

[13788]

hawl: [quote author=Sam1070 link=board=99;num=1051303715;start=40#48 date=07/11/03 at 13:08:02]John Kerry is Roman Catholic.[/quote]I don't recall the details but there was a mild flap a while back when Boston Irish pols were confronted with Kerry's admission that his Jewish grandfather changed their name from something else to Kerry. He calmed things down by showing up at a roast saying things like "you didn't think I'd have the matzoh balls to do this". Despite his father's Roman Catholicism he attended the uber-Episcopalian St. Paul's School and people never exactly thought of him as Southie material-there isn't a card issued for general identification as a Boston Brahmin, but if you're born a rich descendant of Boston's rich founder, well... .

 

[13788]

joe22xxx: Maybe I'm just young, but from all the reading I've done, our political system seems very corrupt.

"The best Congress (and President) money can buy".

 

[MisterMark]

There's a survey for everything, and since corruption was mentioned, here's the latest "Corruption Perceptions Index" ranking most of the countries in the world.

http://www.transparency.org/pressreleases_archive/2002/2002.08.28.cpi.en.html

The U.S. isn't all that bad - we're #16 out of 102 countries. That means there are 86 countries in the world that have worse corruption than we do; 15 are less corrupt.

 

[13788]

Javierdude22: Well, i can't say i'm not feeling slightly joyious when reading the latest news.

It turns out that less than half of the Americans will keep the option of voting for Bush open. 47 % that is.

The others will vote for ANY democratic candidate available. I'm not saying that thats the way to go, but, hopefully it will leave the field open for other competent people.....people that can spell.

Of course there is still a long way to go, and the numbers can change drastically. Maybe he'll do some réally good things, and be a little more nuanced in his political stand, which can turn the polls back in his favour.

May, just seriously, this time, the most competent man or female win...competent...

 

[13788]

Finnmark: Thanks, everyone, for all your views on your President for 2004 ... controversial, conflicting, insightful and informative. And some just a tad biased, maybe ? But all from real people 'inside' the USA, and thus read with appreciation by me over here in UK.

A gesture in return: may we offer you Tony Blair as your next President ? He loves Congress; Congress loves him. Maybe the American people do too ?

The British aren't so sure ...

 

[13788]

7x6andchg: Finnmark -

On two conditions:

1. We have the right to remove him through the much easier "no confidence" vote that Parliamentary procedure provides.

2. You take whoever we elect in 2004...a fairer trade ne'er was born!

7x6&C

 

[13788]

Finnmark: Damn!

You strike a mean deal, 7x6, but it sounds fair enough to me. If risky.

Done!

 

[13788]

7x6andchg: I forgot, though - we need a figurehead too, then, since our President serves both purposes (Prime Minister and Queen) - do you suppose Her Majesty would like to spend four years here...perhaps in Kentucky, I hear she likes horses.

7x6&C

 

[13788]

Finnmark: Seems you want us to ship the whole entourage out, 7x6&C ... maybe Independence was a bad deal after all ? Would it be simpler just to grant the whole US colonial status, with Her Majesty's Governor T.Blair based in Boston ?

Ma'am could still enjoy a holiday on the ranch, which I imagine would be a right royal treat - as you imply.

Time the special relationship moved into a higher gear ...

 

[13788]

7x6andchg: Just for four years, though - prove to each other's countries whether or not the grass is greener on the other side of the pond....

 

[13788]

notsoyoungteen: I'd be willing to bet that George W. Bush gets elected in 2004, for one main reason: he most likely has all the republicans' votes, and the democrats are split on his policies (Iraq war, tax cut, etc.) So, in my mind, he's got it in the bag.But that's just mho.