Your Relationship With God

Osiris

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I really like Meg's way of viewing God, especially when she said she was pre-approved.

When I initially read Meg's post I was doing bills so naturally I am thinking:

Meg's a credit card? :rolleyes:

SpoiledPrincess, this is an excellent thread. Even though God is something on my mind always, I never really thought that much about it and seeing all the different views, it made me kind of step back and say WOW!

Thank you.
 

SpoiledPrincess

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Although I don't believe in a God Osiris, that doesn't mean that I don't believe there are valuable lessons to be learned from most religions, although not strictly a religion I like the Buddhist way of the middle path and I like some of the sentiments attributed to Jesus - particularly 'let he who is without sin', so while I can understand the messages in the Bible and other religious books what I didn't know was how people viewed God on a personal level and how they chose to pray.
 

Osiris

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Although I don't believe in a God Osiris, that doesn't mean that I don't believe there are valuable lessons to be learned from most religions, although not strictly a religion I like the Buddhist way of the middle path and I like some of the sentiments attributed to Jesus - particularly 'let he who is without sin', so while I can understand the messages in the Bible and other religious books what I didn't know was how people viewed God on a personal level and how they chose to pray.

Now as to prayer, I think your knowledge of the Buddhist ways may make my view on prayer more understandable. Some of my beliefs on prayers were fashioned from a Buddhist friend who I would pray with when my mother was ill.

Since I feel God and Christ live within my heart. When I privately pray the Rosary, I am meditating and looking deep within my heart for God and Christ's guidance or blessings. When I do that in the name of someone else, I am sending the loving guidance and energy within me to someone else. I also am a believer in laying on of hands. That the love and good will can be passed by loving touch.

Now I don't believe in this Benny Hinn smack people with your holy $3,000 suit coat type of thing, but when we have had ill family members, we all held hands and prayed with the person. I truly think it makes a difference.

I know that explanation sounds kind of fifth grade, but it is the best way I can put it.
 

SpoiledPrincess

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Although I often state I don't believe in God Osiris, I sometimes wonder if people are naturally disposed to believe in God and in denial when they say they don't - although I never pray as such, in times of adversity I think we all internally pray - it might not be to any named God but there's certainly that 'oh god please help me' feeling about it.
 

B_becominghorse

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Although I often state I don't believe in God Osiris, I sometimes wonder if people are naturally disposed to believe in God and in denial when they say they don't - although I never pray as such, in times of adversity I think we all internally pray - it might not be to any named God but there's certainly that 'oh god please help me' feeling about it.

Princess, my version of this is that I go back and forth between thinking I don't believe in God to not having any idea whether I do or not. I mean, God or even eternal life don't always seem that much more of a stretch than what we've got, which is pretty amazing.

But a lot of important philosophers have pointed out that everybody calls out for God (or almost everybody) when they are desperate straits.
 

Kevbo

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I'm a Christian. The problem I continually run into with people arguing against the existence of God is the "straw man" fallacy, where they caricature God and then proceed to disbelieve in the caricature. The thing is, if you posit for a moment that there is an all-powerful God, then He is, necessarily, bigger than we can comprehend -- He is "outside the box" of reality that we can ever understand. After all, He created the reality that we know, and we will spend forever discovering and refining scientifically our understanding of this reality.

Most people I see who profess atheism seem to fall in three camps:
1) "Brights" -- Dennett, Dawkins, Harris, Hitchens, etc. -- any perception we have of cosmic spirituality or design is really an illusion, in many cases an "accident" of the universe's physical laws playing out over millions or billions of years; this often includes emotions, perceptions of self, and other "human" qualities
2) Angry -- Either something really bad happened to them, where prayers went unanswered, causing them to reject God since He wasn't there for them, or they in general hate authority figures, especially one that they do not see proof for. This is a popular one for the "straw God" argument. My favorite (ahem) is the one where "How could a just and loving God let people suffer (or children die, etc.)?" This ignores a couple of things -- first, that people who suffer may actually go to a cosmic reward that erases all memories of pain; and second (more importantly), it assumes that we can really understand why God does all the things He does. I consider Him transcendent, and beyond human judgment. This does not mean that I don't wonder about certain things. I readily admit that one thing I would really like to know from Him is why pain has to be as bad as it sometimes is. Why is there agony? And before you think I'm just a step away from atheism, stop and try to answer the same question from an evolutionary biology standpoint. What survival purpose does the ability to feel utter incapacitating agony confer that a lower-level "warning" pain does not?
3) Ambivalent people who don't want to commit or don't want to be bothered. Sometimes this is laziness, sometimes it's a wish to not make a direct commitment to one belief in case that bet is wrong. In other words, a sort of "many roads to God" fence-sitting. Sometimes this is expressed as "Christians, Jews, and Muslims are all okay, since they all believe in the same God and are just taking different routes to Him". The problem with this hedging is that the scriptures for each of these religions is pretty clear about its way being the only way, and to fall away to another one is to invite serious spiritual trouble. I grant the 3 of them have a common base, but there are important dogmatic differences that cannot be lightly glossed over.

So, to me, God is a transcendent entity whose manifestation to us limited-understanding humans is that of a loving but sometimes stern and inscrutable Father. When I pray to God, I try very hard not to picture a cartoonish old man with a beard, but more of the incredible expanse of creation surrounding me, with me trying to send a message to its creator. This isn't pantheism -- I'm not saying that the universe is God. I'm trying to say that God created the overwhelming world we all live in, where the level of detail is terrific, and the clockwork nature of how it all works together is dauntingly complex.

Kev
 

D_Kay_Sarah_Sarah

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No I don't Osiris, I feel it's all a big cosmic fluke. There are times when I would like to believe in God, for instance when my father died, when I'm having bad times, but I just don't and can't. However, I realise that someone else's belief in God is no more disprovable than my disbelief.

I live by the same theory. Life is an occurance which is influenced by events, actions, reactions. It works for me and i like the notion of i decide how my life eventuates rather then having it decided by the big man/woman in the sky

I don't like to say there is no god or criticize people who believe as one day my situation may change and i might need/want to believe in him/her.
 

B_Hung Jon

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I'm a Christian. The problem I continually run into with people arguing against the existence of God is the "straw man" fallacy, where they caricature God and then proceed to disbelieve in the caricature. The thing is, if you posit for a moment that there is an all-powerful God, then He is, necessarily, bigger than we can comprehend -- He is "outside the box" of reality that we can ever understand. After all, He created the reality that we know, and we will spend forever discovering and refining scientifically our understanding of this reality.

Most people I see who profess atheism seem to fall in three camps:
1) "Brights" -- Dennett, Dawkins, Harris, Hitchens, etc. -- any perception we have of cosmic spirituality or design is really an illusion, in many cases an "accident" of the universe's physical laws playing out over millions or billions of years; this often includes emotions, perceptions of self, and other "human" qualities
2) Angry -- Either something really bad happened to them, where prayers went unanswered, causing them to reject God since He wasn't there for them, or they in general hate authority figures, especially one that they do not see proof for. This is a popular one for the "straw God" argument. My favorite (ahem) is the one where "How could a just and loving God let people suffer (or children die, etc.)?" This ignores a couple of things -- first, that people who suffer may actually go to a cosmic reward that erases all memories of pain; and second (more importantly), it assumes that we can really understand why God does all the things He does. I consider Him transcendent, and beyond human judgment. This does not mean that I don't wonder about certain things. I readily admit that one thing I would really like to know from Him is why pain has to be as bad as it sometimes is. Why is there agony? And before you think I'm just a step away from atheism, stop and try to answer the same question from an evolutionary biology standpoint. What survival purpose does the ability to feel utter incapacitating agony confer that a lower-level "warning" pain does not?
3) Ambivalent people who don't want to commit or don't want to be bothered. Sometimes this is laziness, sometimes it's a wish to not make a direct commitment to one belief in case that bet is wrong. In other words, a sort of "many roads to God" fence-sitting. Sometimes this is expressed as "Christians, Jews, and Muslims are all okay, since they all believe in the same God and are just taking different routes to Him". The problem with this hedging is that the scriptures for each of these religions is pretty clear about its way being the only way, and to fall away to another one is to invite serious spiritual trouble. I grant the 3 of them have a common base, but there are important dogmatic differences that cannot be lightly glossed over.

So, to me, God is a transcendent entity whose manifestation to us limited-understanding humans is that of a loving but sometimes stern and inscrutable Father. When I pray to God, I try very hard not to picture a cartoonish old man with a beard, but more of the incredible expanse of creation surrounding me, with me trying to send a message to its creator. This isn't pantheism -- I'm not saying that the universe is God. I'm trying to say that God created the overwhelming world we all live in, where the level of detail is terrific, and the clockwork nature of how it all works together is dauntingly complex.

Kev



I think that some atheists don't like the whole christian or theist habit of trying to convert peeps or condemning those who don't believe. I have friends who are atheist as a reaction to negative religious influence. For example, there's G. Bush who claims to be born-again and yet starts wars.
 

Alex Chambers

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Everyday before I get out of bed I thank the Lord for giving me another day. I pray for his guidance to handle whatever comes my way. Of course I pray for the wellbeing and good health of my family and friends.

We have always said grace before meals in my family.

FYI - Unlike the President, God doesn't talk to me. :rolleyes: I don't hear his voice or any other telling me what to do.

That's not God he's hearing--that's Dick Cheney speaking into a paper towel tube.
 

Guy-jin

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God is everyone and everything.

God is not anthropomorphic, and has no consciousness akin to that which we have.

Prayer is a mechanism for steeling one's self and pushing through tough times. It's a way of remaining humble when one experiences good fortune. And so forth.

I do not pray to any deity. And yet, I am able to will myself through tough times and remain humble when I have good fortune, and so forth. In this sense, I am having an experience similar to that which people who do pray to a deity have.

My major problem with theists is their willingness to credit all that is good which they accomplish to a "greater power", when in actuality, it is often the power within them that accomplished these things. I see this as a manipulation of our natural instincts by organized religions to maintain power over the members of their religion.

I hope that one day, people are capable of freeing themselves from that kind of control and see that the power they've been crediting to a deity has all along been inside themselves, and that it is all the evidence they need of god and god's power that they have that capability within themselves. They do not need to go to a church. They do not need to pay a minister or read a book. They need only look at the majesty of nature, the great accomplishments of their fellow men and women, and the faces of their children to experience god.

That's what my relationship is like, anyway. Not many agree.
 

Tattooed Goddess

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I think that some atheists don't like the whole christian or theist habit of trying to convert peeps or condemning those who don't believe. I have friends who are atheist as a reaction to negative religious influence. For example, there's G. Bush who claims to be born-again and yet starts wars.

Interesting, i dont remember reading anything in my Bible about war being of the devil.

Funny how all threads get converted to Bush hating and Republican hunting. Another one bites the dust!
 

Guy-jin

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Interesting, i dont remember reading anything in my Bible about war being of the devil.

Indeed. See Isaiah 45:7.

God creates wars.

It agrees with my feelings about god, actually. God is responsible for wars, because god is each and every one of us.

Of course, Psalm 46:9 agrees with my feelings as well, for it is only god who can stop wars as well.

They are not inevitable events. They are caused by men. And men only credit an external deity with them because they are unwilling to admit that they are the ones committing atrocities all over the world. The world would be a better place if all could take credit for their own actions, good and evil.
 

Kevbo

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I think that some atheists don't like the whole christian or theist habit of trying to convert peeps or condemning those who don't believe. I have friends who are atheist as a reaction to negative religious influence. For example, there's G. Bush who claims to be born-again and yet starts wars.

I'm no fan of Bush but that might be slightly off-topic... wars sometimes are justified. Iraq -- not that I see.

But your friends who are reactionary atheists... I see that all the time. Which is a shame, because it isn't really an authentic examination of what one believes or "knows". It simply is excluding oneself from a "club" because one doesn't like the behavior of some of the members.

Appreciate the response,
Kevin
 

thoreau

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I'm a Christian. The problem I continually run into with people arguing against the existence of God is the "straw man" fallacy, where they caricature God and then proceed to disbelieve in the caricature. The thing is, if you posit for a moment that there is an all-powerful God, then He is, necessarily, bigger than we can comprehend -- He is "outside the box" of reality that we can ever understand. After all, He created the reality that we know, and we will spend forever discovering and refining scientifically our understanding of this reality.

Kev


I always thought this argument was a giant cop out. Its a convenient use of rhetoric to side step the discussion of the nature of divinity by asserting that it is ultimately unknowable.
 

basque9

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God and his Son, my Lord Jesus Christ, are essential ingredients in my life! I give thanks for my numerous blessings and I pray for wisdom, guidance , good conduct and for God's constant love! My life with God is much sweeter and more fulfilling than life would be without him! Although I believe the Bible is a Great and Good Book, it does not dictate my faith...my faith is very personal and is structured based on how I perceive the will of God! I like the simplicity and beauty of the relationship I have with God....free , if you will , of structured religiosity!
 

Hippie Hollow Girl

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I was raised in a Christian home (Southern Baptist) and I find that I still have my basic beliefs...... (I was probably brainwashed somehow).......But I am able to accept the fact that not everyone has the same basic belief system that I have. Or religion etc.

I truly hope that what I was taught as a child is true. At times it is easy to doubt. There are some far fetched stuff in the Bible. Like Jesus being born of a virgin. But then again, I had a child from invitrofertilization.....so maybe God did something like that.....I don't know. I am just too science thinking.

Anyways I do hope that what the Bible says is true. I want to be with my family members in eternity. I want to see loved ones that have gone on ahead of me....again. I want to walk on streets of gold and have a heavenly body.

I find myself turning to God and praying to him when I have any concerns or problems. If there is a God, he has been very good to me. He has always answered my prayers. And been there for me.

But, I do find myself wanting to live my life with no regrets. On my deathbed I don't want there to be anything that I really wanted to do.....that I was scared to do......because of whatever.