You're pissing me off Mr. President

B_VinylBoy

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New End: The fact is, there's NOBODY in Government that could meet your criteria, timelines. You're an impatient idiot, labeling a President as a fraud because he didn't make YOUR concern número uno when we haven't even got through half of his term.

Also, the only reason why I even brought up Hillary is to tell dimwits like you that I didn't just blindly vote for Obama based on his message of "change". That's something that should have sank into your feeble little mind, but I'm sure there's no room for any reasoning up there because it's occupied with your pessamistic, doomsday rhetoric. I honestly don't give a fuck who you think is a better person for President because we have Obama till 2012. Come back in 3 years when a discussion like that makes a fuckin' difference.

I realize that we don't have a perfect President. I knew that back in November. But he's all we got, andif you actually gve a shit about the country we lived in you'd be here trying to find solutions instead of bringing this pathetic doomsday drama.
 

B_New End

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New End: The fact is, there's NOBODY in Government that could meet your criteria, timelines. You're an impatient idiot, labeling a President as a fraud because he didn't make YOUR concern número uno when we haven't even got through half of his term.

How did that in any way answer this question?

Fucking answer me how can I give him more time to prove he is not going to do something HE ALREADY DID!


Oh, and P.S.

You still have no rebuttal for the fact that he isn't even reversing executive orders regarding torture and rendition and warrantless wiretapping. It obviously doesn't bother you that he reviewed these, and decided against it, although that is not what he said he would do when he was campaigning.You also still will not address his hand over fist money give away to the bankers, or bringing on Geithner as sec of treasury

No rebuttal for him stacking his cabinet with wall street tycoons and lobbyists, almost exclusively from the financial industry. Again, after saying he would not.

these are just a couple of the many things he has done a complete about face on. Not "hasn't gotten around to" as you keep trying to claim, he has already got around to it, and done the opposite of what he said he would do.

As a matter of fact, even though these things have nothing to do with time, since some are actions taken in the first 100 days, and others require only the stroke of a pen, you still cling to your sad 8 months argument.
 
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FuzzyKen

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I am watching carefully what is going on. The first thing that many fail to think about is that lobbiests from the insurance industries and related multi-million dollar corporations are spending incredible sums of money from your premiums to try and buy legislation which is all written for their benefit. Hey, it worked for eight years, why not try it again. As a result of this both Rep's and Dem's alike are looking at loyalty to their country and the people they serve versus the fast buck and the potential that these same lobbiest would campaign for their opponents in the next elections.

Most of the people here are now too young to remember the fight for Medicare for Senior Citizens. If one studies that fight carefully conservative causes who wanted to divert that money for other purposes put up exactly the same arguments. This is almost eerie. All of you are watching the latter without having the benefit of watching the former and the way that went.

The Insurance Industry does not want anything out there 1.) that they do not control and 2.) that they cannot use as a scapegoat.

If we were to have both private and a public based medical plan here is exactly what would happen.

1.) The moment an insurance "insured" became high-risk via accident or other health risks the private carrier will dump that insured into the the public pool. This means that the private carriers would retain all the healthy people paying premiums and dump all the liability into the public system.

a.) What this will do is to make every cost predicition come true. The Republicans are telling the truth, but the truth they are telling is only based on their lack of telling HOW the cost of the universal health care bill gets that high and how this is going to bankrupt the entire nation. They don't tell the why.....

b.) Multi-billion dollar insurance companies are via their own books making profits at every increasing levels by simple denial of care to those who need it. As it is the caps and many restraints placed on long term health care policies render them worthless very quickly in cases of catastrophic illness. Unless one takes out a catastrophic illness supplemental policy that takes effect when the cap levels have been reached, you're screwed anyway.

Currently the United States of America has the best medical technology in the world. The problem is that virtually none of the American public can afford it. We may have the best machinery for diagnosis, but the carriers won't pay for that diagnosis. We may have the best drugs to deal with many illnesses, but the insurance carriers will consider many of these drugs over ten years old as "experimental", and the excuses for denial go on and on and on.

I have also watched and studied the care given people on State Medicade programs and compared it to the care given those enrolled in private insurance programs and in HMO based care.

Though there are exceptions, as a general rule the state and federal based single pay plans give the patients better care than do the private and HMO based plans. Most of those needing diagnosis of conditions that could be catastrophic illness are rushed through the procedure with major testing taking place within a very short time. Many on private plans and particularly those with HMO and the cost does not matter are paying for something that they may in fact never receive.

I watched my own Mother die because her HMO refused to pay for testing that would have diagnosed an abdominal aortic aneurysm preventing it's bursting and killing her one week later.

I buried the Mother of a dear friend two weeks ago. She had been complaining for 18 months and exibiting systems indicating illness. They told her that it was "psychosomatic" even in view of some unusual symptoms and irregularities in blood sugar. The woman died of pancreatic cancer. If she had been treated and not allowed to suffer on and on to save them money because the patient was 75 years old, the person who was an active person living a great life would still be here!

In the end people no matter what is said and done this is going to end up being a single pay system because medical insurance carriers have proven again and again and again that they are simply as is the old saying "the fox watching the henhouse" when it comes to any kind of monitoring of their own industry. You cannot trust these people and they prove it over and over again.

Those talking and making all the judgments about how great their insurance is are all people who have never had a problem. It is true there are more healthy people than sick ones. Get sick, watch an insurance carrier do the dirty deeds they have done and your opinion changes.

Many are in denial. This is where it is going and the sooner we bite the bullet and make dead certain that what is placed before the American people is equitable, workable, and most of all honest, the better off we will all be

I feel very sorry for Obama, he is trying to be honest, conciliatory and to work with a bunch of vermin. He needs to wise up and realize that these men are vermin and will lie cheat and steal to get what they want and the American people Dems and Repubs alike do not matter. . . . .

 

B_New End

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I feel very sorry for Obama, he is trying to be honest, conciliatory and to work with a bunch of vermin. He needs to wise up and realize that these men are vermin and will lie cheat and steal to get what they want and the American people Dems and Repubs alike do not matter. . . . .

I feel sorry for him too, because he is a pussy. I'm not trying to be funny, but the guy is always trying to hard to please everyone. But what pisses me off, is I know he is also going to try and please the lobbyists, which means, once again, all we will get is this bloated, disgusting mess of a program, that will make insurance and pharma rich, and America poor.

I personally want free healthcare for visits above $300. But I would be a naive fool to think anything but bloated crap is going to come of this. I have just lived in this country too long to believe a politician like Obama is going to do something thinking of the little guy first. He has that stupi flaw of always listening to "the experts", and to him, thats the lobbyists.
 

Lionsden49

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Finally, some degree of understanding; I have never had it explained so eloquently and with such a firm conviction. Perhaps yours theses are too late and that in itself is a shame.
 

B_24065

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what ever he does i want healthcare benefits just like congress for the same price.


Again with this? Hoax, congress has PRIVATE insurance just like the other 250,000,000 americans. One of the big issues surrounding this debate was whether or not congress would opt to be covered by the same "public option" they were proposing. And the answer to that was the sound of crickets, which meant "NO", because they know it would be far inferior to the private insurance they have now. Do you even read the newspaper?
 

B_VinylBoy

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How did that in any way answer this question?

Fucking answer me how can I give him more time to prove he is not going to do something HE ALREADY DID!


Oh, and P.S.

You still have no rebuttal for the fact that he isn't even reversing executive orders regarding torture and rendition and warrantless wiretapping. It obviously doesn't bother you that he reviewed these, and decided against it, although that is not what he said he would do when he was campaigning.You also still will not address his hand over fist money give away to the bankers, or bringing on Geithner as sec of treasury

No rebuttal for him stacking his cabinet with wall street tycoons and lobbyists, almost exclusively from the financial industry. Again, after saying he would not.

these are just a couple of the many things he has done a complete about face on. Not "hasn't gotten around to" as you keep trying to claim, he has already got around to it, and done the opposite of what he said he would do.

As a matter of fact, even though these things have nothing to do with time, since some are actions taken in the first 100 days, and others require only the stroke of a pen, you still cling to your sad 8 months argument.

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz... :rolleyes:
How cute... the wannabe baby anarchist think he's grown a set of balls and he's "challenging" me to address what he thinks are life changing issues. OK, so you want to pigeonhole this debate and look at Obama's inability to reverse executive orders on Torture and Wiretapping? Wanna cry like a little whiny bitch about how he's "lying" about doing something when he still has time to actually do it? Fine, tough guy. GAME ON.

First off, I'm not even going to humor your pathetic question as to why there hasn't been a valid excuse for Obama not reversing the executive order for Torture & Wiretapping. That's because NO ANSWER WILL SATISFY YOU. In your mind, you already have what you think is the answer and unless my answer matches yours you're just going to say I'm "wrong" and call me brainwashed. That's not an open debate and I will not engage in a discussion where you assume to have the answers because you don't know shit. But isn't it wonderful when you ask an open-ended rhetorical question with no definitive answer? You get to make up the rules as you go, and no matter how ridiculous you can always twist the story into one that suits you even if there's no real factual relevance to it! Unfortunately for you, my argument does. So let me take over this discussion and speak MY mind. We already know what you think, and perhaps for once you should stop trying to.

None of us know exactly why Obama hasn't done away with the Torture & Wiretap provisions. You, of course, in your desperate need to bash the government, just resort to calling it a "lie" since he hasn't taken care of it as fast as YOU wanted it done. Then again, I've already illustrated how much of a paranoid, impatient person you are in previous posts so let's not dwell on that anymore. If you're not going to "repeat yourself", then why should I? :rolleyes:

The fact is, with so many things Obama is trying to handle at once, we have no idea why he hasn't focused on this one issue that you seem to think is "so simple". This, along with his desperate pleas for bipartisanship are probably the two main things I find wrong with Obama right now. But I digress... We also don't know how other people in Congress will act and/or affect other decisions he wants to make if he just "simply" reverses the Executive order.

We all know that politics is a game of Cat & Mouse.
At least rational thinking adults do. :rolleyes:
You honor this, and I'll go with that.
You approve this, and I'll lend you support on that.
Don't focus on this, and I won't harp on that.


We can sit here and debate on how corrupt this is till we're blue in the face (actually YOU can because I'm not even going to waste my time doing that either), or we can act like adults, accept the things we can't change and work with what we got to get what we want. Ironically, making negotiations and compromising is the way of the world. When corporations decide to merge, when two opposing countries come together at an attempt for peace... hell, when your mom & dad decided to have sex and give birth to you. What makes you think Government would be any different? Apparently, this common sense belief escaped you and you'd rather jump up and down and scream about how everyone is corrupt and sucks. Unfortunately, this doesn't make you look like the bigger or better man so the Dungeon Master will not be awarding you Charisma points on that one. :rolleyes:

And before you even THINK about saying that I'm willing to live with a President who tortures or wiretaps (because I know that would have been your next pathetically rhetorical rant if I didn't bring it up), keep in mind that I've maintained a very anti-Torture, anti-wiretapping stance on this board. If you don't think so, then look it up. As for Obama, he says that he's not for either of the two. Yet the provisions still stand so you're quick to call him a liar and a fraud. But ask yourself this question, if you dare to think outside your little box. Since Obama has been in office, has there been ANY credible story or source that has linked Obama to torture or wiretapping? The key word here is CREDIBLE, so get your ass off the lunatic pundit blogs & celebrity journalistic editorials of the extreme sides.

Here's your answer... so far, there hasn't been a single instance of Obama abusing power in the same way as our previous Administration. There are no known or documented instances of Obama hiring anyone to torture, spy or wiretap anyone. And until something like that happens, to get all worried about whether or not Obama is actually going to use or abuse his authority in this matter is stupid. What good is an Executive Order or a law if it's never enforced? Why worry about the car in the garage if the owner never drives? Of course, a paranoid person such as yourself don't think in this manner. That's because you don't trust government in any shape or form or think that ANYONE in Congress is worth a damn. Looking back, I guess I did repeat myself a little bit... oops! :rolleyes:

By all means... feel free to run around here like Chicken Little, acting as if we're all going to go to Hell because we're surrounded by corrupt politicians who are going to do everything in their power to take your jobs and take your money. And by all means, hold your head up high and act as if you're more enlightened than the rest of the class because you're so quick to jump to negative conclusions on people's behaviors and matters that you clearly DON'T understand every detail about. But don't EVEN try to preach to me about what I do and don't know. If you're not willing to analyze the situation from every angle, then you're not going to have a ghost of a chance in debating me. Being informed and looking at arguments from other angles besides yours is not trying to make excuses. You're just too desperate in trying to be right on a debate that has no correct answers, and in the process you can only do is what you're doing now... talk a lot of shit that adds up to absolutely NOTHING.

4 years.
Understand what that means, idiot. Your attempts at trying to find the perfectly honest person in government is just as laughable as your excuses for losing hope in our government. He can still reverse the Executive Order on Wiretapping and Torture. He can still repeal DADT. He can still try and pass Health Care Reform. That all takes fuckin' time, and I'm sure I'm not the only one sick of watching you bitch and moan about it not being done fast enough. You've already thrown your hands in the air and are crying because he said something you didn't like early on. And you have NO WAY in knowing if he's going to stand by his promises or not. I haven't... and that doesn't make me, in any shape or fashion, flawed or somehow unable to think for myself. You're just looking for another pal to bitch with... and it ain't going to be me.

I've already placed a wager that you look at all of this, find it irrelevant and come back with some ridiculous rant about my intelligence. So go ahead, respond in your predictable way and in the process prove your overall stupidity and pay my laundry bill. :rolleyes:
 
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midlifebear

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I tend to agree with the OP. Obama is being far too much of a pussy with the obstructionist assholes on both sides of the aisle.

Newsflash for big business: the government does not exist to protect your business model. Insurers won't be able to compete with a government plan? Tough fucking titty, Cigna. Laws exist to serve the people's interests, not ensure that your profits flow uninterrupted. This bullshit that appears to be going on between PhRMA and the White House would get anyone else who tried it indicted for collusion and price-fixing.

Quite frankly, the use of profit-based business models in literal life-and-death matters is utterly insane. The entire industry should be dismantled and replaced with a 100% subsidized preventive-care system, augmented by a mandatory HSA contribution into a national pool for catastrophic care. At the very least, the existing health insurance infrastructure should be converted to a not-for-profit model.

The fact of the matter is that as long as politicians can make a career out of being in office, they will always place their own re-election ahead of all other concerns...and as long as money is what wins elections, they will always be in the pockets of monied interests, and NOTHING will change.

Term limits, people.

In the meantime, Mr. President, stop pussyfooting around with these assholes whose only interest is derailing any effort to change the status quo. Tell them to get on board or get run the fuck over.

Everything and more that Hazelgod has penned. No public option? Then why bother?
 

Sklar

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If I can, I'd like to make a call for civility here. Let the passions run for those who believe in what they are saying, but can we not at least be civil to each other?

Here's an honest question:

For those of you who did vote for President Obama and are now disillusioned by what he has/has not done, do you think we would have been any better off if Senator McCain won?


Sklar
 
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deleted15807

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Don't see why its so hard for Americans to adopt a national healthcare plan like much of the rest of the world.

Because they've been bamboozled by a well mobilized and well funded propaganda campaign. The political right hates government and programs meant to redistribute the wealth unless the program channels money from the poor/middle class upwards (see sole source contracting).
 

B_VinylBoy

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Here's an honest question:

For those of you who did vote for President Obama and are now disillusioned by what he has/has not done, do you think we would have been any better off if Senator McCain won?

You know, I've wondered that myself.
But I have this sick feeling that many of them are NOT going to answer THIS question honestly. For once, I hope I'm wrong in this regard.
 

D_Mylor Mentallydaft

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What is the strategy in Afghanistan?... I have zero clue since I no longer see any protestors... no "no blood for oil", no "out of Middle East"... no "support the troops, not the war"... shocking how now it's fine to be in the Middle East. Granted Iraq was a success, despite what Harry Reid said/says.

no.... you don't see em any more, or atleast on t.v, just shit about the hockey mom with the knocked up daughter and Captain Change's choice of beer........ are you familiar with the term ""misdirection"
 

D_Mylor Mentallydaft

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What is the strategy in Afghanistan?... I have zero clue since I no longer see any protestors... no "no blood for oil", no "out of Middle East"... no "support the troops, not the war"... shocking how now it's fine to be in the Middle East. Granted Iraq was a success, despite what Harry Reid said/says.


no.... you don't see em any more, or atleast on t.v, just shit about the hockey mom with the knocked up daughter and Captain Change's choice of beer........ are you familiar with the term misdirection ?
 

B_VinylBoy

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no.... you don't see em any more, or atleast on t.v, just shit about the hockey mom with the knocked up daughter and Captain Change's choice of beer........ are you familiar with the term ""misdirection"

The media tends to go where the biggest sounds and images are coming from. Maybe Faux News could scare their fan base to talk about more relevant things that don't focus on birth certificates, death camps, or secret plots to kill grandma? Perhaps they can talk about Afghanistan instead of telling their large, cable news fan base, that they're quick to say is larger than anyone that watches CNN and MSNBC combined, that Obama is a socialist, racist that hates white people?

Or you can watch more international news sources that aren't obsessed on the nonsense, or at least ones that don't pander to it just so they can secretly focus on their agenda of having a larger "quantity" of people going against our administration?

It's not like we couldn't find out what's going on. Sadly, most people don't even care. And many of the ones that act like they do just so they can pretend that they're "above it all". Don't fall for the bullshit. :rolleyes:
 

Bodaddio

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You know, I've wondered that myself.
But I have this sick feeling that many of them are NOT going to answer THIS question honestly. For once, I hope I'm wrong in this regard.

McCain? There really was no choice there. Would we be better? Probably exactly the same place we are now.
300,000,000 people in this country and this is the best we can do?

Cheers
 

B_VinylBoy

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McCain? There really was no choice there. Would we be better? Probably exactly the same place we are now.
300,000,000 people in this country and this is the best we can do?

Cheers

The smartest people would never run for public office. They would never want to be constantly put into several "damned if you do, damned if you don't" scenarios where nobody on both sides want to listen to one another.
 

B_New End

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just resort to calling it a "lie" since he hasn't taken care of it as fast as YOU wanted it done.
Jesus Christ. That still didn't answer the question:

Fucking answer me how can I give him more time to prove he is not going to do something HE ALREADY DID!

Since Obama has been in office, has there been ANY credible story or source that has linked Obama to torture or wiretapping?
You don't know how to use Google? Have you been asleep?
rendtion:
Obama preserves renditions as counter-terrorism tool - Los Angeles Times
Obama and wiretapping... the white house press document:
Obama preserves renditions as counter-terrorism tool - Los Angeles
TimesDespite Obama pledge, Justice defends Bush secrets - USATODAY.com
Any more hoops you want me to jump through?Why are you even here arguing if you don't even know this simple shit? Want me to prove he brought on Geithner and a bunch of other financials industry lobbyists to his cabinet.... or can you use google and find out who the people he appointed are yourself? Want me to prove he hasn't done anything to pull out of Iraq, or are you capable yourself? Want me to prove he went from saying "first day" he is going to pull out of Iraq, to "21 month plan"? Or can you do it yourself?

I'm not the only one sick of watching you bitch and moan about it not being done fast enough
Jesus Christ. That still didn't answer the question:

Fucking answer me how can I give him more time to prove he is not going to do something HE ALREADY DID!

For those of you who did vote for President Obama and are now disillusioned by what he has/has not done, do you think we would have been any better off if Senator McCain won?
We'd be in the exact same spot, which is why I'm so pissed. Because Obama is a fucking liar, and serves the same masters as McCain. Big banks, big money, big corporations, and the defense industry. Just like most of congress. It's corrupt, and it doesn't matter if they got a D or an R... it's always the same shit. Lies, lies, lies.
 
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B_VinylBoy

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Wow... what a fuckin' moron.

All of your so-called "questions" have no definitive answers. The only so-called "answer" you will accept, is the same regardless of how you word them. YOU ONLY WANT ME TO AGREE WITH YOU IN SAYING THAT OBAMA IS A LIAR. And why is that? Because Obama has said and/or done things in the last 8 months to send a message to YOU that he won't live up to his campaign promises. I'm willing to wait and see if he does do something. You won't. That's YOUR problem. And I'd appreciate it if you'd stop TRYING to make it mine.

Pay fuckin' attention next time, OK?
 
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B_New End

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And why is that? Because Obama has said and/or done things in the last 8 months to send a message to YOU that he won't live up to his campaign promises. I'm willing to wait and see if he does do something.

Everything I am complaining about... HE HAS ALREADY DONE!!! You are willing to wait and see if he is not going to do something he already did? Do you not understand that time moves forward? DO you have some kind of time machine that lets you move randomly through the space time continuum?

Jesus Christ. That still didn't answer the question:

Fucking answer me how can I give him more time to prove he is not going to do something HE ALREADY DID!