Uncut fathers with sons (18+ only)

[thadjock]

What I said in that post wasn't necessarily directed towards you but anti-circ peeps in general.

I am happy with my circumcision status. I never really thought about being like dad or not.

Parents can snip or not...it just isn't my business. I don't see it as a human rights issue (mutilation) and laugh when I hear that...I mean laugh laugh.

maybe the reason u can't see it as a human rights issue is because you're confusing human rights with the mutilation argument which are two different things.

I don't think the term "mutilation" is accurate or helpful in any way furthering constructive debate. I think it's a term used by extremists to incite anger and resentment. and since you're the one who brought it up.....

 

[thadjock]

Well, can't you at least let him or her live long enough to find out if he or she wants to live or not? That decision can't be made until he or she grows up. If the unborn baby wants to commit suicide, let him or her make that decision.

and cant' u let him live long enough with an intact penis to let him decide if he wants to have it "clipped" or not?

if your infant son can verbalize or otherwise indicate he wants to be circumcised then i say go for it, otherwise leave it alone till he can .

 

[MickeyLee]

What I said in that post wasn't necessarily directed towards you but anti-circ peeps in general.

I am happy with my circumcision status. I never really thought about being like dad or not.

Parents can snip or not...it just isn't my business. I don't see it as a human rights issue (mutilation) and laugh when I hear that...I mean laugh laugh.

i'm not anti-circ, i am anti-RIC.

saying RIC is a wrong, that it violates the rights of a person is not the same as stating a circ'd penis is mutilated, damaged or in anyway less spiffy than any other penis.

there is nothing wrong with a circ'd penis, i am sure for the most part the man attached doesn't have any problems with his status or the function of his penis. i pretty sure he and his partner(s) are pretty happy.

men will/can/do choose to be circ'd later in life. for various reasons ranging from "i like the look" to running out of treatment options for medical conditions. i am all for them being able to make the choise. those men should be supported in their choices.

i also think men who are less than thrilled with having been cut should be allowed to state their opinion without being called anti-circ nazis or labeled as pervereted fetishist.

 

[BIGBULL29]

a fetus is the potential of human life. the fetus is tied to the mother's body, there for her rights supersede the rights of an abstract or potential life/person.

a baby(and his foreskin) is an actual person, living breathing and protected/deserving of all rights given to any other person born in this/any other country.

P.S.
birth control, family planning and options in an unwanted (for any reason) pregnancy is one of foundations of the women's movement. and is the same case of body autonomy/sovereignty i was harping on earlier.

I just found the solution: fetal circumcisions. I think that will make it ok. If we circumcise the baby boy before it's born, then it will be morally justified because he still belongs to the mother. She'll still have the right to do what she wants with it (before it's too late when he exits the womb, as the right is then lost). I'm so excited!:biggrin1:

 

[BIGBULL29]

Cutting off a foreskin is not a "snip." Parents assume this "right," and it's a presumptive decision that has become a tribal thing in the U. S. in particular. The benefits to the child are virtually nil. The benefits to the parents--well, if it makes them feel good, I guess the foreskin is doomed. Given a choice, the baby would say "no."

I don't know any of any proven benefits to being uncircumcised. It's just all what experts think. Nothing has been scientifically proven. There are studies to support being circumcision.

If I don't take your life, I will let you have all of your foreskin .:biggrin1:. What a compromise!

 

[thadjock]

I just found the solution: fetal circumcisions. I think that will make it ok. If we circumcise the baby boy before it's born, then it will be morally justified because he still belongs to the mother. She'll still have the right to do what she wants with it (before it's too late when he exits the womb, as the right is then lost). I'm so excited!:biggrin1:

and we descend into sarcasm

i'm always punk'd into thinking people on here might actually want to have some civil discourse on the subject

 

[MickeyLee]

I just found the solution: fetal circumcisions. I think that will make it ok. If we circumcise the baby boy before it's born, then it will be morally justified because he still belongs to the mother. She'll still have the right to do what she wants with it (before it's too late when he exits the womb, as the right is then lost). I'm so excited!:biggrin1:

nope. once the intent of giving birth to another human being has been established the mother is now responsible to the fetus.. this includes not drinking, not smoking, not taking unnecessary medications and keeping herself in good physical health during the pregnancy.

drinking or drug abuse during pregnancy should be classified as child abuse/endangerment.

fetal circumcision would still be a violation of the child's rights.
(seriously can't believe i just typed this, shame on you Bull)

you are just dying to nip the wee little bugger in his bud. :wink:

 

[BIGBULL29]

and cant' u let him live long enough with an intact penis to let him decide if he wants to have it "clipped" or not?

if your infant son can verbalize or otherwise indicate he wants to be circumcised then i say go for it, otherwise leave it alone till he can .

Then don't murder him until he can decide if he wants to live or not. Can you be that generous? If he wants to blow his head off at 20, so be it. But please let him grow up first. Don't be making that decision for him.

 

[MickeyLee]

please let him grow up first. Don't be making that decision for him.

<~~~ Mickeylee snipped the hell of ^^^^this quote.

exactly!!!:biggrin1:

 

[BIGBULL29]

nope. once the intent of giving birth to another human being has been established the mother is now responsible to the fetus.. this includes not drinking, not smoking, not taking unnecessary medications and keeping herself in good physical health during the pregnancy.

drinking or drug abuse during pregnancy should be classified as child abuse/endangerment.

fetal circumcision would still be a violation of the child's rights.
(seriously can't believe i just typed this, shame on you Bull)

you are just dying to nip the wee little bugger in his bud. :wink:

When does a fetus gain rights? 6 months? 9 months? 3 months? I'm lost. :biggrin1: LOL.

I love moral philosophy.

 

[BIGBULL29]

<~~~ Mickeylee snipped the hell of ^^^^this quote.

exactly!!!:biggrin1:

You're awful...you cheated....how dare you? LOLOLOL

 

[MickeyLee]

When does a fetus gain rights? 6 months? 9 months? 3 months? I'm lost. :biggrin1: LOL.

I love moral philosophy.

once a women/couple decide to carry through with a pregnancy the fetus/future child is instantly afforded full rights to the healthiest happiest life possible, IMO. this includes the right/expectation to have his/her health protected from that point on. i still remain absolutely pro-choice on the abortion issue, so even late in the game should the circumstances change and the continuing pregnancy would be detrimental or dangerous to the mother health/life then her rights will again be paramount in ending the pregnancy.

 

[BIGBULL29]

once a women/couple decide to carry through with a pregnancy the fetus/future child is instantly afforded full rights to the healthiest happiest life possible, IMO. this includes the right/expectation to have his/her health protected from that point on. i still remain absolutely pro-choice on the abortion issue, so even late in the game should the circumstances change and the continuing pregnancy would be detrimental or dangerous to the mother health/life then her rights will again be paramount in ending the pregnancy.

And I will always allow parents to make the decision if they want their newborn son to have all of his forekskin or not. I sure hope they don't murder him before he has any say in the matter.

Wonder if I'm 2months pregnant and my fetus is not a mental or physical threat. I just don't want the son-of-a-bitch!!

I gotta get going...bye bye...

 

[MickeyLee]

You're awful...you cheated....how dare you? LOLOLOL

i got a bit snippy happy, i blame the thread topic. i got all caught up with the spirit of the moment.

i bet there are sites around with instructions to restore ya quote. :tongue:

I gotta get going...bye bye...

bubye and have fun with ya fine self, Mr. Bull. :smile:

 

[ginger_qboy]

and cant' u let him live long enough with an intact penis to let him decide if he wants to have it "clipped" or not?

if your infant son can verbalize or otherwise indicate he wants to be circumcised then i say go for it, otherwise leave it alone till he can .

uh oh. i think this is one of the first times that I am joing a circ thread...

I agree 100%. I firmly believe that it SHOULD NOT BE the right of the parents to circumcise their newborn.

I understand parents want to do what is best for their new baby boy however, considering that RIC is so controvercial perhaps it's best to allow the person to whom the penis is attached to make that decision.

Granted, if there are medical problems, for example, let's say phimosis and circumcision is the best solution then by all means... do what is best.

Modifying your baby boy's body just because 'that's how it is" is unethical. Why not get your flat chested daughter some implants? Just minor body modification - like circumcision. Right?

Don't get me wrong, I am NOT anti-circumcision!!! I love cut cock However, I truely believe that it is the individuals right to decide what modifications are made to his body unless there are extenuating medical circumstances ie phimosis, balanitis... before the age of majority.

AS for the op... my dad is cut and I am uncut. He was born in Europe and I was born in Canada. One would expect the opposite considering where we were born.

 

[darkbond007]

My dad is cut. I was uncut but I was only left uncut because I was born premature, when I was taken to be circumcised the doctor convinced my mom not to do it. I have since become cut.

I havent decided what I will do with my son but I will more than likely have him circumcised. I dont have any moral hangups about making such a decision.

 

[Sardonic]

The culture we're raised in affects us our entire life. We can't escape being raised in one. Which one is right and which one is wrong?

Do you believe in abortion rights? When does a baby have a choice if he or she lives or not? Let that baby grow up to make the decision if he wants to live or not.

I have every right to reject my mother's judaism, her political views, her values, but nothing, nothing will ever restore the foreskin that was taken from my as an infant, ever. Nobody ever asked me whether I wanted to be circumcised, it was done without my consent and against what became my view from the age of 9 when I realised what had been done to me after I had my first view of a normal penis. Despite me having told her of how she violated my physical integrity, she still doesn't get it.

Every day I have to see a scar where there shouldn't be one, I hate the way my penis looks and feels. I am so jealous of my boyfriend who is intact, he gains so much pleasure from his foreskin.

If, when you turn 18, you want to have your foreskin or your entire penis removed, go ahead, it's your right. But nobody has the right to remove a childs healthy foreskin for whatever reason, even religious (in my case). There would be outrage if someone has their baby girl's labia slightly trimmed, but boy's foreskins apparently do not belong to them and they have no rights or say in the matter.

 

[gniko21]

When does a fetus gain rights? 6 months? 9 months? 3 months? I'm lost. :biggrin1: LOL.

I love moral philosophy.

Yeah, interesting. The rights of the mother and her body are more important than the rights of the unborn child. I've never understood that thinking.

You loose your right to choose when you choose to have unprotected sex.

People love to site the example of children conceived as a result of rape or through contraception that somehow fails. The instances of those births are minuscule but always worth bringing up to stir up the pot.

 

[darkbond007]

I have every right to reject my mother's judaism, her political views, her values, but nothing, nothing will ever restore the foreskin that was taken from my as an infant, ever. Nobody ever asked me whether I wanted to be circumcised, it was done without my consent and against what became my view from the age of 9 when I realised what had been done to me after I had my first view of a normal penis. Despite me having told her of how she violated my physical integrity, she still doesn't get it.

Every day I have to see a scar where there shouldn't be one, I hate the way my penis looks and feels. I am so jealous of my boyfriend who is intact, he gains so much pleasure from his foreskin.

If, when you turn 18, you want to have your foreskin or your entire penis removed, go ahead, it's your right. But nobody has the right to remove a childs healthy foreskin for whatever reason, even religious (in my case). There would be outrage if someone has their baby girl's labia slightly trimmed, but boy's foreskins apparently do not belong to them and they have no rights or say in the matter.

Actually parents do have the right. Circumcision is not against the law. Now whether it's morally wrong is in the eyes of the beholder.

 

[HazelGod]

and we descend into sarcasm

i'm always punk'd into thinking people on here might actually want to have some civil discourse on the subject

You mean like this...?

and the darwin award goes to.......