Changes in the gay community

[Brodie888]

In terms of gay venues, it often seems like we are our worst enemies.

In general we tend to be a fickle demographic. The place to go changes rapidly and the yesterday places are forced to do whatever it takes to survive (mostly becoming less gay).

I can't see this changing.

 

[nhguy78]

The best scenario is if sexuality never matters because then cliques disappears and people would blend and mix however they want.

The left has been successful in aggregating cis white male hetero / amato normative culture into one monolith and "gay" into another monolith. This is kinda nice because we are suddenly tasked with being seen and represented now. On the other hand, we don't mesh with others in our monolith we were assigned. I don't represent as gay because that's not the best term for me. Most gay men themselves, old or young, have vastly different experiences and abilities: there's the piano bar gays, the rave/circuit party gays, the gym gays, the bear/otter gays. To me, there is no difference, though, between those that went to bath houses and similar places for hookups and those that go to clubs and sex clubs for hookups and those that use Grindr. It's all the same. Do we stay silo'd or do we branch out to try something new?

I think the pandemic has thrown us off a bit but also has forced to get us to reconsider our past and our typical operations and methods. Maybe it's time to reinvent ourselves.

 

[trav.]

The left has been successful in aggregating cis white male hetero / amato normative culture into one monolith and "gay" into another monolith.

“Cis”?

I don't represent as gay because that's not the best term for me.

Isn’t this section Ask A Gay Man?

Maybe it's time to reinvent ourselves.

Why?

 

[Brodie888]

I think the other thing that has been changing in the last few years is that sexuality has become less polarized.

There has been greater acknowledgement of all the other colors that come between black and white.

In the past, you were either gay or straight. If you said you were bisexual, you'd be called a liar by straights or taking the soft landing into homosexuality by the gays.

I don't think that it detracts from gay culture, it actually builds a bridge.

 

[nhguy78]

“Cis”? -- The opposite of trans

Isn’t this section Ask A Gay Man? -- yes. Yes, it is.

Why? -- if things are changing, we might need to change ourselves or be a relic of the past. Find new ways of embracing our individual identities in thes changing times.

 

[SpartanDystopia]

You do see the irony here, right?

Both in terms of those who didn't fit in when the the white young bougie male image reigned supreme, as well as when none of us did in the global scheme of things.

Funny what I notice with the boomers (see comment about talking to parents) is that when these things pop up they have some very stubborn blinders on when it comes to anything but me-first.

Visibility (and more importantly - equality) shouldn't be selective IMO. Especially to those who face a common source of oppression.

Thanks for this and previous post. I stopped engaging because Im pretty new here and was having difficulty explaining :/

Unfortunately it does not appear those who are fearing "gay erasure" understand the irony

 

[trav.]

Isn’t this section Ask A Gay Man? -- yes. Yes, it is.

Previously you claimed to not “represent as gay” (whatever that means) because it’s not the best term for you. Are you gay or not?

Why? -- if things are changing, we might need to change ourselves or be a relic of the past. Find new ways of embracing our individual identities in thes changing times.

Change ourselves in what way?

 

[LPSG Simon]

Change ourselves in what way?

By moving on from the idea that the descriptions of people in your OP ought to be centric to the Gay identity.

There are lots more of us around, and a lot of us also call ourselves Gay.

 

[nhguy78]

Previously you claimed to not “represent as gay” (whatever that means) because it’s not the best term for you. Are you gay or not?

Change ourselves in what way?

I am asexual. I am in a homoromantic marriage that is often sexual. A person who would not appreciate this would just call me gay.

That's up to each individual, really. What would that mean for you in a positive sense? How would you interact in this new gay reality? Learn more about yourself would be a good start. Explore areas of your life that would help you relate and stand in solidarity with those who are not like you. Embrace differences because everyone wants to be included. Like it or not, our big tent is growing because people are learning about themselves and are exploring all the fun stuff that comes with knowing. more people embracing kink, fetish, consent, equal justice, representation.

 

[trav.]

By moving on from the idea that the descriptions of people in your OP ought to be centric to the Gay identity.

What kind of people would you prefer to be centric?

I am asexual. I am in a homoromantic marriage that is often sexual.

Isn’t that contradictory?

A person who would not appreciate this would just call me gay.

According to your profile, you’re 90% gay and 10% straight which I think essentially means you are bisexual. Isn’t this part of the forum supposed to be for gay men only?

How would you interact in this new gay reality?

New gay reality?

Learn more about yourself would be a good start. Explore areas of your life that would help you relate and stand in solidarity with those who are not like you. Embrace differences because everyone wants to be included.

Is this a lecture?

Like it or not, our big tent is growing because people are learning about themselves and are exploring all the fun stuff that comes with knowing. more people embracing kink, fetish, consent, equal justice, representation.

Our big tent? I thought the purpose of the gay community was unity based on commonality. You seem to liken it to a circus.

 

[nhguy78]

What kind of people would you prefer to be centric?


Isn’t that contradictory?

According to your profile, you’re 90% gay and 10% straight which I think essentially means you are bisexual. Isn’t this part of the forum supposed to be for gay men only?

New gay reality?

Is this a lecture?

Our big tent? I thought the purpose of the gay community was unity based on commonality. You seem to liken it to a circus.

My goal would be to not make any one group centric.

An asexual who is sexual is not contradictory. I'm guessing you think asexual equals non-sexual and that is not true.

I don't identify as bisexual so stop gatekeeping.

You're asking the question but i presume you're just not going to be happy with any responses and looking to gate keep the entire community.

 

[trav.]

My goal would be to not make any one group centric.

I was asking LPSG Simon.

An asexual who is sexual is not contradictory. I'm guessing you think asexual equals non-sexual and that is not true.

Actually that is exactly what asexual means.

I don't identify as bisexual so stop gatekeeping.

How was I “gatekeeping”?

You're asking the question but i presume you're just not going to be happy with any responses and looking to gate keep the entire community.

I simply asked if you’re gay which you never answered. Now you’re implying that I am looking to “gate keep” an entire group of people?

 

[SpartanDystopia]

I was asking LPSG Simon.

Actually that is exactly what asexual means.

How was I “gatekeeping”?

I simply asked if you’re gay which you never answered. Now you’re implying that I am looking to “gate keep” an entire group of people?

simon could tell you the forum rules state that 80/20 or higher = gay for LPSG

Gatekeeping here = you trying to limit the discussion in a way that excludes everyone who disagrees with you. but this was far too nice of a term to describe your over-the-top bigotry

 

[trav.]

simon could tell you the forum rules state that 80/20 or higher = gay for LPSG

Nhguy78 claims that he doesn’t “represent as gay” and is asexual. This section is called Ask A Gay Man.

Gatekeeping here = you trying to limit the discussion in a way that excludes everyone who disagrees with you. but this was far too nice of a term to describe your over-the-top bigotry

I’ve not been “gatekeeping” anyone. These accusations are as baseless as your falsities about the gay rights movement. Stop being a troublemaker.

 

[MisterB]

According to your profile, you’re 90% gay and 10% straight which I think essentially means you are bisexual. Isn’t this part of the forum supposed to be for gay men only?

simon could tell you the forum rules state that 80/20 or higher = gay for LPSG

Further clarification from the Rules re: Posting in the Ask a Whomever Sections:

"For the purposes of these "Ask a" sections, we consider bisexual to be 80/20 gay/straight or straight/gay. Likewise for straight and gay identified members, we consider that these each correspond to the 80/20 rule as well (for example, straight-identified people would be up to 80% straight on our scale. 79% and under would be considered bisexual for these purposes)."

I don't identify as bisexual so stop gatekeeping.

This Member has chosen to represent himself/identify as 90% Gay/10% Straight. That's his preregotative. Period. And that means he is allowed to post In Ask A Gay Man.

So how about we have no more discussion of or challenges to another Member about how he/she/they wish to identify. Please and thanks.

Let me repost the last statement from the Opening Post of this thread, in which the thread creator stated his opinion and closed with this:

Do you believe the gay community has changed in the past 15 to 20 years? If so, is it for the better or not? What are your thoughts?

Such a statement presumes the intent of the OP was to generate discussion and share thoughts/opinions; I suggest everyone should be open to what those who choose to participate here have to say. Whether or not one agrees or not with those thoughts/opinions.

It might also be helpful if further dialog in this thread is more about asking about that which we may not necessarily agree with. This is the perfect thread to ask others about that which we are not familiar with or understand.

In other words, ask about that which you don't understand or may have questions of. Isn't that why this thread was created?

 

[SpartanDystopia]

Such a statement presumes the intent of the OP was to generate discussion and share thoughts/opinions; I suggest everyone should be open to what those who choose to participate here have to say. Whether or not one agrees or not with those thoughts/opinions.

In other words, ask about that which you don't understand or may have questions of. Isn't that why this thread was created?

No one can know what OP originally intended for sure, but when examined in conjunction with subsequent posts it is difficult to believe this was post was made in good faith. Further comments indicate a clear desire to revert to the 2004 "good old days" where cis white gay men who aggressively conformed to heteronormative society held the vast majority of political/social power within the LGBTQ community at large.

I cannot see how this can be interpreted in a way that does not further demarginalize those who are not cis white gay men. I say this as a cis gay white man of a similar age to OP.

 

[MisterB]

No one can know what OP originally intended for sure, but when examined in conjunction with subsequent posts it is difficult to believe this was post was made in good faith. Further comments indicate a clear desire to revert to the 2004 "good old days" where cis white gay men who aggressively conformed to heteronormative society held the vast majority of political/social power within the LGBTQ community at large.

I cannot see how this can be interpreted in a way that does not further demarginalize those who are not cis white gay men. I say this as a cis gay white man of a similar age to OP.

Precisely.

Since no can know the OP's original intent, I thought it best to take the words he posted in his Opening Post literally.

That's why I posted what I did in an attempt to reset this thread and hopefully generate some thoughtful opinions and insights that each of us may have about our experiences as it relates to being gay men.

At the end of the day, we may not agree. And that's okay.

As long as we allow all voices to be heard and disagree in a meaningful and polite manner.

Which again, I interpreted to be the initial intent of the thread creator's Opening Post.

And we'll see with subsequent discussion how that goes, eh?

 

[SpartanDystopia]

Nhguy78 claims that he doesn’t “represent as gay” and is asexual. This section is called Ask A Gay Man.

I’ve not been “gatekeeping” anyone. These accusations are as baseless as your falsities about the gay rights movement. Stop being a troublemaker.

1) Moderator explained you are wrong about this section and also should not be gatekeeping how others choose to identify

2) Nothing I said about the gay rights movement was false. Your revisionist history is bizarre and discriminatory. Attempting to reimagine the stonewall riots as being led by the post-AIDS characterization of cis gay men in your OP is beyond absurd--that type of gay man was in the closet then; not rioting. We have enough trouble handling distant history of the US. We should at least TRY to get right the aspects still within the living memory of many.

 

[LPSG Simon]

I was asking LPSG Simon.

@nhguy78 echoes perfectly how I would have responded.

Attempting to reimagine the stonewall riots as being led by the post-AIDS characterization of cis gay men in your OP is beyond absurd--that type of gay man was in the closet then; not rioting

Reminds me of that stupid movie that came out a few years ago that focused on some white midwestern guy who was portrayed as being front and centre when it got through his thick head that the state really does resent him too, when in reality it was people who were far more marginalized who had had enough.

Gay rights activists give their verdict on Stonewall: 'This film is no credit to the history it purports to portray'

 

[LPSG Simon]

Here’s what I remember:

- predominantly white, male, upper middle class, gay/bisexual (not “LGBTQ+” and certainly not “queer”)

- mostly single, not domesticated, indifferent about marriage and parenthood, very career oriented, politically left-wing but not radical, moderate and also somewhat conservative, not overly political

- normal weight (give or take a few pounds), fit but more lean and toned than muscular, usually no facial hair, minimal body hair, no pink, blue, purple, or green hair, very few if any tattoos

- dressed in “business casual” clothing; dress shirts and khakis for work, mostly polo shirts/t-shirts/dress shirts with boot cut blue jeans for social events, shopped at local malls, especially (Abercrombie & Fitch, Hollister, Banana Republic, Express Men), a lot of puka shell necklaces, designer cologne, teeth whitening and tanning beds

- rather affectionate and friendly, guys sitting on the laps of their boyfriends, so much dancing, wonderful music, a lot of smoking (especially outdoors after it was banned in bars) and drinking

- communicated on Gay.com (no Facebook, Twitter or Instagram), Yahoo Messenger, AOL Messenger, email, many preferences for “clean cut” and “straight acting”

Actually, thank god this has changed. TBH I cant think of a more boring, bourgeois, stale-toast-dull-as-dishwater demographic of people to represent a community (and myself by extension).