Declining numbers of male teachers in education.

[seventiesdemon]

My love works in Education. Over the years the declining numbers of male teachers in schools has been neglected, yet the number of school related violence issues has escalated dramatically.

This has become a huge problem in education everywhere around the globe. Here in Australia the ratio at one time in the 60's, 70's 80's was around 50-50. Today it is around 24% male to 76% female. The school my Grandchildren were going had a teaching staff of 60 female staff to 2 male. Discipline, bullying by students was largely ignored for fear of retribution by parents, or even the students. The remaining 2 male teaches are constantly placed under stress by the other staff to control the male students, yet are severely restricted to do so.

My daughter has decided to move her kids from the school because of a distinct reluctance to investigate serious bullying issues.

Is this inequality in teaching staff contributing to wider issues in the community? Thought I would ask an opinion here to gain some feedback and thought.

I'll post this, this is just a snippet available on the web of some reasons.....

My brother was a High School Teacher, my older sister still teaches.........they see the issues which have developed over time and the deterioration in the system, yet no-one is willing to fix the issue, yet allow it to deteriorate further.

This issue affects all, I have seen the changes myself in the loss of respect for others become a huge problem in our young. 8 hours of our kids time is spent at school awake, the other with parents when they sleep. Personally, I think it has gone beyond a point to be fixed or remedied.

I feel for my children, and their kids, the issues they deal with now are not just their kids doing well at school, to, will they be safe when they walk through the school gate in the morning...........

Like anything, when balance is lost..........it all goes apeshit.

The connection between falling male teacher numbers and fear of student contact

 

[glennb]

My love works in Education. Over the years the declining numbers of male teachers in schools has been neglected, yet the number of school related violence issues has escalated dramatically.

This has become a huge problem in education everywhere around the globe. Here in Australia the ratio at one time in the 60's, 70's 80's was around 50-50. Today it is around 24% male to 76% female. The school my Grandchildren were going had a teaching staff of 60 female staff to 2 male. Discipline, bullying by students was largely ignored for fear of retribution by parents, or even the students. The remaining 2 male teaches are constantly placed under stress by the other staff to control the male students, yet are severely restricted to do so.

My daughter has decided to move her kids from the school because of a distinct reluctance to investigate serious bullying issues.

Is this inequality in teaching staff contributing to wider issues in the community? Thought I would ask an opinion here to gain some feedback and thought.

I'll post this, this is just a snippet available on the web of some reasons.....

My brother was a High School Teacher, my older sister still teaches.........they see the issues which have developed over time and the deterioration in the system, yet no-one is willing to fix the issue, yet allow it to deteriorate further.

This issue affects all, I have seen the changes myself in the loss of respect for others become a huge problem in our young. 8 hours of our kids time is spent at school awake, the other with parents when they sleep. Personally, I think it has gone beyond a point to be fixed or remedied.

I feel for my children, and their kids, the issues they deal with now are not just their kids doing well at school, to, will they be safe when they walk through the school gate in the morning...........

Like anything, when balance is lost..........it all goes apeshit.

The connection between falling male teacher numbers and fear of student contact

My daughters elementary school had 6 grades including kindergarten, around 3 classes per grade and 1 male teacher if you don't count the gym teacher.

 

[deleted867851]

Hope its ok to add my two cents.not sure why this is in women's issues
I just started teaching last year. It is in the field of welding at a technical high school. (I teach 9th and 10th).there is a serious discipline problem. It seems like parents think its the teachers job to teach morals. The problem is parents dont back it up. Or the have the ideal that their child is perfect. We have allowed a generation of entitled people to think they can do whatever they want. No one seems to want to take control. Half my class does very well the other half can be unruly and quite a handful. Nevermind the vaping issues. Then when the child is caught the simply pass the blame and the parents seem blind to this. I dont have any real answers. I simply enforce the rules and do my best to explain the idea of right and wrong.
I think the answer needs to come from home.

 

[seventiesdemon]

Hope its ok to add my two cents.not sure why this is in women's issues
I just started teaching last year. It is in the field of welding at a technical high school. (I teach 9th and 10th).there is a serious discipline problem. It seems like parents think its the teachers job to teach morals. The problem is parents dont back it up. Or the have the ideal that their child is perfect. We have allowed a generation of entitled people to think they can do whatever they want. No one seems to want to take control. Half my class does very well the other half can be unruly and quite a handful. Nevermind the vaping issues. Then when the child is caught the simply pass the blame and the parents seem blind to this. I dont have any real answers. I simply enforce the rules and do my best to explain the idea of right and wrong.
I think the answer needs to come from home.

Thanks for replying hammer...I placed it in Womens Issues because it seems education has become more of a womens domain. It doesn't really matter where the post is placed though.

I can't go into too much detail about what my partner does for a living, cept to say it's in education policy making etc. She had a long association with volunteer organisations P&C before that, President of the State organisation where we are for 3 years, treasurer and so on...anyway.

It's become practically near impossible to entice males to become teachers. Not because there are males who don't wish to be, or would be the best at it. It's just that they are discouraged from doing so by those who are male teachers, from their experiences. Male teachers have many more pressures placed on them than female teachers.

Male teacher numbers have been declining since the mid to late 80's. You don't mention your experiences whether you have observed it where you are. Here, it's become very evident, and the reasons why. You've probably found you can't even raise your voice now without little Johnny's parents complaining. Yet they are the same parents which happily drop off their kids to anyone who will look after them, or sit on their phones for hours on end ignoring their children. Parents these days take out their guilt of being a crap parent on anyone they can....be it teachers, police, doctors....anyone, so they can look like good mummy and daddy's in their childs eye. Unaware, they are creating a rod for their own back down the track............but still, it will be someone else's responsibility.

At the same time we have seen decreasing numbers, we have seen an increase in violence at schools. I'm with you 100% on parents needing to have more involvement in their schools. It's getting close to the stage where cameras will need to be introduced to protect teachers from students.

There is much to be said, but there is obviously little interest in mentioning it here . We were all past students at one time. There have always been problem kids and the odd teacher or two. For the most part the best teachers I had were male. They had a very different way of thinking and doing things, more inventive, constructive and interesting I spose you could say......but, I think this wears off a bit the older one becomes.

Teachers had to deal with idiots in class back in the day as well, I remember also some of the bully students reducing newer female teachers to tears from some of the things they said. But disciplinary measures were a little different then For the most part in the classroom behaviour was quite good. Now, the students who wish to learn are disrupted by others. It's not usually the kids fault, there is usually something going on in their life or home that causes them worry or concern.....but the teacher, or other students shouldn't pay for that.

 

[seventiesdemon]

My daughters elementary school had 6 grades including kindergarten, around 3 classes per grade and 1 male teacher if you don't count the gym teacher.

Seems like an issue there as well. It's a shame. I remember male teachers bought a differing approach and ideas to teaching than female teachers. It's something I think is lost forever now, although I do wonder whether this is affecting children's education, behaviour, as a whole. It gets discussed quite a bit behind closed doors where my partner works, believe me..........which is what we are now being taught as a society. Don't speak openly about it.....discuss it where it can't be heard.

 

[glennb]

Seems like an issue there as well. It's a shame. I remember male teachers bought a differing approach and ideas to teaching than female teachers. It's something I think is lost forever now, although I do wonder whether this is affecting children's education, behaviour, as a whole. It gets discussed quite a bit behind closed doors where my partner works, believe me..........which is what we are now being taught as a society. Don't speak openly about it.....discuss it where it can't be heard.

It never really occurred to me that it could be an issue. I'm perfectly fine with all female teachers. It's different in the middle and high school.

 

[glennb]

So my previous post got deleted, I guess because it reponded to a different deleted post and presumably not because of what I wrote, but I will try and be very careful and respectful

I went to elementary school in the 70s and I had one male teacher in 7 years and he was the biggest jackass in the school. I find the attacks on educators that have been increasing over the last few decades to be disgusting. Educators, particularly primary and preschool are the backbone of society and should be hailed, not villified. If women are the ones who step up to the plate to take these positions then God bless them.

There are two professions that I see being attacked of late, educators and health care providers. These are both crucial to a functioning society and both dominated by women. No profession should be free from criticism but the criticism should be fair and honest and blame shouldn't be heaped on people for things they had nothing to do with. Remember, correlation does not prove causation. If there are more hurricanes in Florida it's not because too many women are teaching in elementary school.

 

[seventiesdemon]

So my previous post got deleted, I guess because it reponded to a different deleted post and presumably not because of what I wrote, but I will try and be very careful and respectful

I went to elementary school in the 70s and I had one male teacher in 7 years and he was the biggest jackass in the school. I find the attacks on educators that have been increasing over the last few decades to be disgusting. Educators, particularly primary and preschool are the backbone of society and should be hailed, not villified. If women are the ones who step up to the plate to take these positions then God bless them.

There are two professions that I see being attacked of late, educators and health care providers. These are both crucial to a functioning society and both dominated by women. No profession should be free from criticism but the criticism should be fair and honest and blame shouldn't be heaped on people for things they had nothing to do with. Remember, correlation does not prove causation. If there are more hurricanes in Florida it's not because too many women are teaching in elementary school.

This is not about whether someone is a bad teacher or a good teacher, male or female, there are good and bad in both, just like there are good and bad in any other occupation. It's also not about criticizing teachers, male or female.

This is about why are there declining numbers of male teachers. Out of every other occupation, this occupation is the one where it is most obvious. The only other time there was a male shortage was at time of War.

I don't know if you bothered to read the link I posted in my original post. The reasons given by male teachers why they left the profession. I've also mentioned my Brother just recently retired as a High School teacher. His wife Primary. My older sister still teaches Primary part time.

Another reason why male teachers have left the job is growing numbers of students would seek them out as stand in father figures, this places them in a precarious position of being dismissive, distancing, to protect themselves from allegation, then accused of being arrogant and uncaring.

Losing male teaching staff, not being replaced, weakens the integrity of the whole education system of being fair and balanced, male teachers, just like female bring their individual experiences, knowledge and skills to the classroom. It's sad to see them slowly disappear.

You said your one male teacher you had was a jackass. Others may have thought he was great. You may have been a pain in the arse too I was an apprentice Bricklayer in the 70's.

 

[glennb]

This is not about whether someone is a bad teacher or a good teacher, male or female, there are good and bad in both, just like there are good and bad in any other occupation. It's also not about criticizing teachers, male or female.

I'm talking more about the assault on teaches claiming they are groomers and whatnot. This is when you get hyper aggressive parents at school board meetings threatening teachers who are just trying to educate children.

This is about why are there declining numbers of male teachers. Out of every other occupation, this occupation is the one where it is most obvious. The only other time there was a male shortage was at time of War.

I just can't bring myself to care unless there is some evidence that male teachers bring something special to the table that women can't. I'm in software design and the demographics in the field are definitely not reflective of the nation at large. However, the demographics are fairly reflective of what I saw taking IT as a degree in college. People make choices on the field that want to get into and if men don't want to teach primary education than so be it. My view is that if our kids are being taught by women in primary education then whoop di doo. They can get their men in middle school and beyond.

Another reason why male teachers have left the job is growing numbers of students would seek them out as stand in father figures, this places them in a precarious position of being dismissive, distancing, to protect themselves from allegation, then accused of being arrogant and uncaring.

Ok, um, I'm not sure what that says about society but, again, I just don't care. And I say that as a parent of two school age kids. I live in a very affluent neighborhood and all my kids friends have both parents. I'm willing to bet that divorce rates here are quite low so are these kids still looking for a daddy figure in their teachers? If not then why does their elementary school only have one male teacher, the same number as I had in the 70s. I wasn't even close to being born in the 1940s and earlier but movies and books always seem to feature women teachers in primary eduction and somehow society just kept on moving on.

It reminds me of the old belief that something is wrong with the current generation of kids. People have been saying that since language was first invented and I've heard it my entire life. How is it possible that every generation of kids is worse than the previous?

Losing male teaching staff, not being replaced, weakens the integrity of the whole education system of being fair and balanced, male teachers, just like female bring their individual experiences, knowledge and skills to the classroom. It's sad to see them slowly disappear.

I don't think eduction is meant to have a gender parity. It never did and it never will. I'm not the least bit sad.

You said your one male teacher you had was a jackass. Others may have thought he was great. You may have been a pain in the arse too I was an apprentice Bricklayer in the 70's.

Maybe I was a pain in the ass.

 

[seventiesdemon]

I'm talking more about the assault on teaches claiming they are groomers and whatnot. This is when you get hyper aggressive parents at school board meetings threatening teachers who are just trying to educate children.

I just can't bring myself to care unless there is some evidence that male teachers bring something special to the table that women can't. I'm in software design and the demographics in the field are definitely not reflective of the nation at large. However, the demographics are fairly reflective of what I saw taking IT as a degree in college. People make choices on the field that want to get into and if men don't want to teach primary education than so be it. My view is that if our kids are being taught by women in primary education then whoop di doo. They can get their men in middle school and beyond.

Ok, um, I'm not sure what that says about society but, again, I just don't care. And I say that as a parent of two school age kids. I live in a very affluent neighborhood and all my kids friends have both parents. I'm willing to bet that divorce rates here are quite low so are these kids still looking for a daddy figure in their teachers? If not then why does their elementary school only have one male teacher, the same number as I had in the 70s. I wasn't even close to being born in the 1940s and earlier but movies and books always seem to feature women teachers in primary eduction and somehow society just kept on moving on.

It reminds me of the old belief that something is wrong with the current generation of kids. People have been saying that since language was first invented and I've heard it my entire life. How is it possible that every generation of kids is worse than the previous?

I don't think eduction is meant to have a gender parity. It never did and it never will. I'm not the least bit sad.

Maybe I was a pain in the ass.

It's a well known fact that aggressiveness is becoming an issue in all aspects of society. Whether you are a teacher, first responder, doctor, nurse (male or female ) work the checkout at the local supermarket, pour the beer at the local pub or the teller over the counter at the bank. It's usually violence toward females by males, and ever increasing violent female offenders.

The violence aspect of society is increasing, everywhere. It starts at schools, with parenting, with teaching, watching, learning and role model behaviour.

These days, when teachers attempt to discipline, it is generally where the abuse and intimidation toward the teacher begins, either by students, or their parents. Much of it is not reported by teachers out of fear, or the increased workload involved in reporting the incident. Disciplinary measures become weak and ineffectual. We see this spreading everywhere into society affecting everyone. When students realise they can get away with it, the likleyhood of incidence will increase. Which it does. Social media has become an issue and recent addition to problems as well.

My partner is privy to the movements and trends in education, it's not healthy at the moment for male teachers, has not been for about 15-20 years. Of late female numbers have been dropping also, for obvious reasons. Quality of education begins to suffer overall as the cross section of applicants drops off male or female. It's been ongoing for a number of years now and difficult to reverse. More money is not worth the abuse or the threat your reputation and name is dragged through the mud from false allegation.

Anyway, hope your kids enjoy their young school years, they are only kids once. I have 4 kids, 7 Grandkids. My partner has 5 boys and 12 Grandkids. So I'm not new to the kids going to school thing

I probably wouldn't care either, but, they're my kids and grandkids, so I do care what happens. Thanks for your input. I'm not into the multi quote thing, simply because it becomes confusing when responding to a reply.

 

[Evenflow618]

Destroy the whole education system already. Instead of the teachers teaching crap and useless academic, they should teach how to be a pure hearted human being and how to make the world a better place. Teach kids very early how to reach their full potential.

 

[seventiesdemon]

Destroy the whole education system already. Instead of the teachers teaching crap and useless academic, they should teach how to be a pure hearted human being and how to make the world a better place. Teach kids very early how to reach their full potential.

Social media these days makes it near impossible to separate kids from world trends or problems. Once upon a time kids had time to be kids, evolved into the world..............now they are hit with bullshit from a too young age which takes much of the enjoyment of being a kid out of it.

I think the internet has screwed up our very young, especially those where it was placed in front of them as a substitute parent. It was bad enough with TV, but there were regulations covering that. Now it's pretty much open slather. It use to be pier pressure.....now it's social media pressure.

 

[Evenflow618]

It was bad back then too. We have been taught a lot of useless information for decades. People are very asleep not paying attention to what’s been programmed into our society. Fortunately we can change it today. Start shielding kids related to you from all the garbage being out online, tv, or what is taught to them right now.

Social media these days makes it near impossible to separate kids from world trends or problems. Once upon a time kids had time to be kids, evolved into the world..............now they are hit with bullshit from a too young age which takes much of the enjoyment of being a kid out of it.

I think the internet has screwed up our very young, especially those where it was placed in front of them as a substitute parent. It was bad enough with TV, but there were regulations covering that. Now it's pretty much open slather. It use to be pier pressure.....now it's social media pressure.

 

[seventiesdemon]

It was bad back then too. We have been taught a lot of useless information for decades. People are very asleep not paying attention to what’s been programmed into our society. Fortunately we can change it today. Start shielding kids related to you from all the garbage being out online, tv, or what is taught to them right now.

Their Mum's and Dad's do a good job with their kids. They were young when the computer generation began. I used to turn the power off at the meter box when I thought they'd been on it long enough. Early days of nintendo etc..............I hated the music repeat, repeat ,repeat.....Took em ages to catch on to that.

 

[Evenflow618]

Their Mum's and Dad's do a good job with their kids. They were young when the computer generation began. I used to turn the power off at the meter box when I thought they'd been on it long enough. Early days of nintendo etc..............I hated the music repeat, repeat ,repeat.....Took em ages to catch on to that.

Parents don’t do a good job with their kids. A lot of people are not ready to have kids when they do have them.

 

[palakaorion]

I used to volunteer with preschool age children. I loved it and the kids loved it.

Then the rulemaking began. Male volunteers cannot be with children unless an adult female is also present. Male volunteers cannot help a child in the bathroom. Male volunteers cannot hug children. (Try explaining to a 4-year-old why you can't give them a hug.)

I would lay my life down in a heartbeat for any of those children. But because I'm a man, I couldn't be trusted.

That's why the number of men in education is declining.

 

[deleted867851]

In our school(tech highschool) most of the trade teachers are make the exception being hair dressing. The trade teachers all tell the same story. We catch these kids doing things that should get them removed from the school, but no one seems to enforce anything. The people in admin seem to fall into two categories. Over the top coddle of teens(oh we are going to save this one) and the the others seem scare to enforce anything for fear of lawsuits. The problem the teachers have is there are students who dont want to be at the school but their parents put them there. These teens make it very hard to be a safe learning environment. Their parents seem to think its our job to teach them morals and then try to twist the law to fit their logic. There are plenty of laws about fair education and the people who come up with these rules clearly are disconnected from the classroom if they've ever taught in one. People need to be held accountable if this is ever going to turn around, both teachers and parents.
I try not yo talk about academic teachers and the guidance office because its a disaster. It cracks me up how they look down on trade teachers but the first sign of trouble and they are calling me to help. The guidance office seems like they are blind to reality of whats really going on.
Again hold people accountable and things will change.

 

[seventiesdemon]

In our school(tech highschool) most of the trade teachers are make the exception being hair dressing. The trade teachers all tell the same story. We catch these kids doing things that should get them removed from the school, but no one seems to enforce anything. The people in admin seem to fall into two categories. Over the top coddle of teens(oh we are going to save this one) and the the others seem scare to enforce anything for fear of lawsuits. The problem the teachers have is there are students who dont want to be at the school but their parents put them there. These teens make it very hard to be a safe learning environment. Their parents seem to think its our job to teach them morals and then try to twist the law to fit their logic. There are plenty of laws about fair education and the people who come up with these rules clearly are disconnected from the classroom if they've ever taught in one. People need to be held accountable if this is ever going to turn around, both teachers and parents.
I try not yo talk about academic teachers and the guidance office because its a disaster. It cracks me up how they look down on trade teachers but the first sign of trouble and they are calling me to help. The guidance office seems like they are blind to reality of whats really going on.
Again hold people accountable and things will change.

My Brother was a Tech teacher at High School...he has recently retired. He mentioned on several occasions the changes he noticed through the years with students. I myself am a licenced builder, trade background is bricklayer, mason, ceramic wall and floor tiler.

He tells me the same story you describe. Through the years when working at peoples homes, extensions, bricklaying, building etcetera, I had young kids sitting there watching what you did, asking many questions....why this, why that...long before Bob The Builder I'd give them my trowel, let them have a go, answered their questions.

Then.........I noticed a huge shift when computers, computer games, social media came onto the scene...it was a gradual development. To the point that now kids get out of the car, walk in, and won't even acknowledge you are there, say hello, or even converse. They have ear phones in, plugged in to their phones or devices. I won't go on.........just that I have noticed, as others in my industry my age have, the destruction of young peoples capability to concentrate on set tasks and learning basic skills because of the distraction these devices have introduced into a young mind.

The issue now is...a new age disease is developing called Digital Dementia. Sounds funny, hilarious. But talking with Doctor friends, it's developing into the huge problem of the future. These devices that are carried now, you have no need to retain information, they remember for you. If you don't train your memory when it is developing, it's difficult to regain at a later stage in life.

Yet, as we all know, you have to admit there is a problem...........but people....and parents don't....it is in the age of someone elses responsibility, not theirs.

Before it was the idiot box....now it is worse. I could go on about how I have seen children's attitudes change with the internet intervention invention through the years. It's something teachers try and stop by asking students to leave their devices at the door, because they can see the issues that have developed, they see it every day. It's an uphill battle that is only going to become worse.

And yes, I agree with you about male teachers numbers decreasing....my link in my original post says exactly that. Some seem happy with this............but at the same time violence toward teachers is increasing....I saw it years ago when working at clients homes, trying to remove their young kids from computer games......the kicking, screaming and violence toward them when told they were told it's only a game, to the kids, it was like life or death to be separated from it. Then it became easier for parents to give in, not say no.

Then it became the educators problem when they say no......... it's not the parents fault, in the parents eyes...they rush in to defend their kids to make out they love them, Mummy and Daddy are here for you. To make up for their failures as a parent for their inability of saying NO, it's not acceptable in their child's early development.

 

[deleted867851]

My Brother was a Tech teacher at High School...he has recently retired. He mentioned on several occasions the changes he noticed through the years with students. I myself am a licenced builder, trade background is bricklayer, mason, ceramic wall and floor tiler.

He tells me the same story you describe. Through the years when working at peoples homes, extensions, bricklaying, building etcetera, I had young kids sitting there watching what you did, asking many questions....why this, why that...long before Bob The Builder I'd give them my trowel, let them have a go, answered their questions.

Then.........I noticed a huge shift when computers, computer games, social media came onto the scene...it was a gradual development. To the point that now kids get out of the car, walk in, and won't even acknowledge you are there, say hello, or even converse. They have ear phones in, plugged in to their phones or devices. I won't go on.........just that I have noticed, as others in my industry my age have, the destruction of young peoples capability to concentrate on set tasks and learning basic skills because of the distraction these devices have introduced into a young mind.

The issue now is...a new age disease is developing called Digital Dementia. Sounds funny, hilarious. But talking with Doctor friends, it's developing into the huge problem of the future. These devices that are carried now, you have no need to retain information, they remember for you. If you don't train your memory when it is developing, it's difficult to regain at a later stage in life.

Yet, as we all know, you have to admit there is a problem...........but people....and parents don't....it is in the age of someone elses responsibility, not theirs.

Before it was the idiot box....now it is worse. I could go on about how I have seen children's attitudes change with the internet intervention invention through the years. It's something teachers try and stop by asking students to leave their devices at the door, because they can see the issues that have developed, they see it every day. It's an uphill battle that is only going to become worse.

And yes, I agree with you about male teachers numbers decreasing....my link in my original post says exactly that. Some seem happy with this............but at the same time violence toward teachers is increasing....I saw it years ago when working at clients homes, trying to remove their young kids from computer games......the kicking, screaming and violence toward them when told they were told it's only a game, to the kids, it was like life or death to be separated from it. Then it became easier for parents to give in, not say no.

Then it became the educators problem when they say no......... it's not the parents fault, in the parents eyes...they rush in to defend their kids to make out they love them, Mummy and Daddy are here for you. To make up for their failures as a parent for their inability of saying NO, it's not acceptable in their child's early development.

I couldn't have said it better. The technology is the worst thing that happened to this world. What you said about leaving them at the door. I implemented a no phone policy. 1st a warning then a detention. Most of tye parents are onboard, and as the year has progressed i hear that some students lose there phones at the house now too. The parents get tired of picking their kids up after(no bus). At the same time im like if you had done this before we wouldn't be here. Its sad really. I doubt it will get better too.